Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 March 8

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March 8

IMO

I wondered when the use of IMO as short for "in my opinion" first was used. The google ngram viewer finds it as far back as nearly 1500.

But now I wonder whether it was used that long ago to mean "in my opinion" or whether it had an earlier use. Thanks, CBHA (talk) 02:32, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

In 1500 it must have been wikt:imo#Latin --87.114.11.3 (talk) 07:21, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Do you know those weren't used by Victorian writers when corresponding casually with friends? I don't know if those specific ones were, but there are many interesting overlaps. "British Library shows up textspeak as soooo 19th century" - from The Guardian [1]. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:45, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

There's a significant difference between rebus writing, which has existed as a game for centuries, and is now part of textspeak, and initialisms/acronyms, which were rare in any context before the 20th century. --ColinFine (talk) 16:06, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

I would challenge that. Telegraphers used text-speak and acronyms in much the same way we do. In The Victorian Internet, Standage asserts that they and the early adopters of usenet/email/SMS would have much common ground, including time-saving habits. Matt Deres (talk) 21:29, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

German to English Translation

Please translate this title: Ideen zu einem Versuch, die Gränzen der Wirksamkeit des Staats zu bestimmen. Thanks. Omidinist (talk) 12:31, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

First attempt: "Ideas concerning an attempt to determine the limits of the State's effectiveness"...Wilhelm Humboldt. Lectonar (talk) 12:39, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

(ec)I suspect it should be "Grenzen". If you want to stay fairly literal, try "Ideas on an attempt to find the limits of state effectiveness". Without more context, it's hard to pinpoint - an alternative (with a slightly different meaning) could be "Towards determining the limits of state action". If this refers to Wilhelm von Humboldt's essay, I suspect there are translations around. Indeed, there is one here, with the original 1854 translation being given as "The Sphere and Duties of Government", and an alternative title "The Limits of State Action". --Stephan Schulz (talk) 12:43, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I think it was "Gränzen" in 1792, but of course it's "Grenzen" (limits, borders) now. Lectonar (talk) 12:45, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I suspect you are right. All current references and the facsimile of a 1920 edition use the "Grenzen" spelling, but I found an 1851 edition that uses "Gränzen". --Stephan Schulz (talk) 12:57, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

The German Wikipedia article uses the old spelling,though, see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_von_Humboldt. As does this: http://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/2318. Lectonar (talk) 13:02, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

The German Wikipedia uses both, with the modern spelling winning 3:1 if I count correctly ;-). The Liberty Fund has the same 1851 edition as the "Deutsche Texte" archive. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 13:08, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Of course it's the name of Humboldt's tract. English translations of the tract do not give the exact meaning of its title, and that is what I am looking for. Thanks for comments. Omidinist (talk) 13:05, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

The problem is that the meaning is not well-defined and depends on social and textual context. As far as I can tell, the part "Ideen zu einem Versuch, [....] zu bestimmen" has no direct meaning - it just transports the social message that the writer is modest and self-deprecating (he is only conveying some ideas on an attempt to X, not X itself). And "Wirksamkeit" nowadays is somewhat passive (where does an action have an effect), but probably had a more active connotation back in 17XX (what actions are possible), which is why most of the translation, including the second proposed by me, translate it as "limit of state action", not "limit of state effectiveness". --Stephan Schulz (talk) 15:56, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

farewell ceremony + introducing ceremony

Hello everyone. As I am not a native English speaker, I am deciding to ask a question here regarding a word or a noun phrase meaning a "farewell-introduction [ceremony]" (googled 1), "farewell introducing [c.]" (googled 2), "farewell-introducing [c.]", or something (with or without a hyphen). Is there any more exact English equivalent or a special kind of expressing the fact? Thank you in advance. Hamid Hassani (talk) 16:14, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

A farewell ceremony is a Valedictory. There does not seem to be similar term for a welcoming ceremony - perhaps Matriculation in an academic context, or just a Welcome. 109.150.174.93 (talk) 16:57, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Graduation ceremonies are sometimes called conferral ceremonies. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 17:06, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

"Convocation" may work. Alanscottwalker (talk) 17:11, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

If you're talking about a transfer from one authority to another, or from the incumbent of an office to his/her successor, you might use "handover". Rojomoke (talk) 23:08, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes Rojomoke, we do; I think handover is the exact answer for what I need. You just hit the bulls'-eye! :) Hamid Hassani (talk) 09:06, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

And what is your idea about handover and takeover together? The process could be done almost simultaneously and/or at the same session or ceremony. (I just googled.) Hamid Hassani (talk) 05:39, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

"Takeover" should be avoided, as in English that tends to mean a "hostile takeover". I would use "handover" alone. StuRat (talk) 05:53, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Ok, thank you. Hamid Hassani (talk) 05:57, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

It might be old hat now, but in my early work years it was common for there to be a "handover/takeover", when one worker was replacing another. It was essentially a short OJT session in which the new guy was told/given the key things they needed to know/have to get started. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 07:08, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Handover can connote begrudging. Transfer is even more neutral. —Tamfang (talk) 07:59, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Here's a handover ceremony that's also a takeover ceremony. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:41, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

The phrase "transfer of command" works. StuRat (talk) 15:57, 12 March 2016 (UTC)