Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2017 June 19

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June 19

Job descriptions

In the last century, the Surveyor of the Fabric of Westminster Abbey was Doctor Donald Buttress, while the Archbishop of Manila was Cardinal Sin. Do people's surnames influence their choice of occupation? 86.176.19.17 (talk) 09:53, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

See Nominative determinism. Rojomoke (talk) 23:31, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Translation from Arabic - 'sabih'

What does it 'sabih' (or something like that) mean? I don't know how it's written in Arabic. I know it can be a given name, but it should also have meaning as a word. --194.224.153.207 (talk) 11:20, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Probably Sabeeh. HOTmag (talk) 14:39, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

This wikt:صبيح.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 17:23, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Danish or Norwegian?

I have a citation as follows:

Indberetning om en stipendierejse til England for at studere Gouins metode for undervisning i sprog (Quousque Tandem No. = Norske univ. og skoleannaler, 1894

Google guesses the the first part to be Danish, and the second ("Norske univ. og skoleannaler,") to be Norwegian. Assuming the question makes sense for an 1894 text, which language are these really? Thanks, Henry^Flower 12:58, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm Danish. "Quousque Tandem" is Latin. "No." is not a Danish abbreviation but may in some contexts be used instead of "nr." (number, Danish: nummer). Everything else including "Norske univ. og skoleannaler" is valid current Danish (univ. must be short for universitets). I don't think it's valid current Norwegian but I don't know about 1894. Norway was Danish for centuries until 1814 and the languages are very similar. See Languages of Norway#Norwegian language struggle. "Norske" means Norwegian which may be why Google guesses Norwegian. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:16, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

No. may not be a Danish abbreviation, but it is a perfectly good Latin one for numero, which makes sense as part of the Latin phrase. Wymspen (talk) 14:30, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Also see Numero sign. Lectonar (talk) 14:33, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks all (especially PrimeHunter) -- that's very helpful. :) Henry^Flower 15:45, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

• @Henry Flower: It's actually both Danish and Norwegian, since written Norwegian Bokmål is very close to written Danish (the two languages differ mainly in pronounciation), and was even closer to Danish during the later part of the 19th Century (see Riksmål). In modern Norwegian Bokmål the word "stipendierejse" would be spelt "stipendiereise", but in 1894, when the text appears to have been written, the former, i.e. pure Danish, spelling would probably have been used. Which means that I, because of the "Norske univ. og skoleannaler", would classify the text as being in Norwegian. - Tom | Thomas.W ^talk 18:57, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

A bit off-topic, but see A language is a dialect with an army and navy. Danish, Norwegian and Swedish are classified as separate languages, and not a common Scandinavian language as it once was (see Old Norse), for political reasons, but actually differ less from each other than a number of dialects of the German language differ from each other, with Norwegian often being described as an intermediate stage between Danish and Swedish, by using Danish words (and orthography) but pronouncing the words the way a Swedish-speaker would... - Tom | Thomas.W ^talk 19:21, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

what's the rule?

Do you say

Do the same things that the parents do.

Or

Do the same things as the parents do? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.4.147.143 (talk) 17:42, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Both those expressions are valid but both are rather clumsy. It is not necessary to repeat "do". It would be better to say "Do the same as the parents". Also "the parents" sounds rather odd as it is not clear whose parents are being referred to. It would be more usual to hear "Do the same as your (his, her) parents".--Mrs Wibble-Wobble (talk) 18:25, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

This is a matter of opinion; I prefer the original versions. I don't have a source for this, but I have the impression that British people are more likely to prefer the shorter versions. --76.71.5.114 (talk) 22:02, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

I don't agree with your last comment. Check: The grandparents "do the same as the parents". HOTmag (talk) 21:46, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

I think you are trying to combine two phrases, each of which is quite clear, and thereby causing some grammatical confusion. Either say "Do the things that your parents do" or "do the same as your parents do" - you don't actually need to say "the same things" Wymspen (talk) 07:50, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

How to pronounce the word "Jesuism"

I was just reading the Wikipedia article called "Jesuism" but can't seem to find out in any of my searches how that word is pronounced. Just wondering if that info could be included, please. Or, would you happen to know of any other site where the pronunciation is given?

Many thanks! ~ Coleyna — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coleyna (talk • contribs) 22:14, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

A non-IPA representation might be written as "JEZ-you-izm". Wictionary's entry lacks a pronunciation, and the word isn't in my (paper) copy of the OED. Anyone? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.12.79.194 (talk) 00:32, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

If "Jesuism" refers to the "Jesuits", the corresponding pronunciation should be "JEZ-oo-ism". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:27, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

... but it doesn't. That would be Jesuitism, pronounced /ˈdʒɛzjuːɪˌtɪz(ə)m/ according to the OED. Dbfirs 15:42, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

So "Jeez-u-ism" after the pronunciation of Jesus? That doesn't sound right to me. DTLHS (talk) 16:50, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Note that this is a word that could be eligible for Trisyllabic laxing, so it would not be surprising if the first syllable were /dʒɛz/. However, there are exceptions to that rule, so it could also be /dʒi:z/, or both pronunciations may exist in free variation.

In the UK, "JEZ-you-izm" is normal, but given the American tendancy for yod dropping, "JEZ-oo-ism" might be acceptable over there. Alansplodge (talk) 11:05, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

But very unlikely to be "JEEZ-you-ism". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:13, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Indeed, I've never heard of that one. Alansplodge (talk) 20:55, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. Further, I don't think there's any English word that contains the letter "e", located between two consonants, and pronounced "ee" followed by the second consonant followed by "you". Check: "nephew", pronounced "nef-you", never "neef-you". I will be surprised to come across any exception to that rule (of thumb). HOTmag (talk) 19:35, 24 June 2017 (UTC)