Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2019 June 27

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June 27

Latvian language question

I saw a sign at a bus stop in Riga. It said:

Esiet uzmanīgi! Atskanot durvju aizvēršanas signālam, lūdzu, neiekāpiet vai neizkāpiet no transporta.

(I had to resort to the Linux Character map tool quite a lot to get those funny accents in place.)

What does this mean? JIP | Talk 00:01, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

It means: "Be careful! When you hear the door closing signal, please do not step off or get off the road" Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 08:23, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

(ec) Google Translate, freely available, is always worth a go: "Be careful! When you call the door closing signal, please do not step off or get off the road." The translation's clear, if not entirely well-worded. Bazza (talk) 08:30, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

"Jm Frühling"?

I saw an old sheet of musical notes in a museum in Riga. It was in both Latvian and German. I don't understand Latvian but I do understand German. The title said "Jm Frühling". Yes, "jm" instead of "im". I have a picture to prove it. Was this some kind of typo or can it really be spelled this way? JIP | Talk 00:10, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

U and V were pretty much the same letter until the 17th century, as were I and J (J was originally what typographers call a "swash glyph" variant of I). As late as the 19th century, I and J were sometimes treated as the same letter (though somewhat archaic by then). See File:Sampler by Elizabeth Laidman, 1760.jpg... AnonMoos (talk) 02:43, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

To this day (or at least until the later 20th Century) you could occasionally see it on the covers of books titled "Illustrierte Geschichte des/der ..." (Illustrated history of), because the "I" next to the double "ll" might be less distinguishable when you're using sans-serif. See, for example Jllustrierte Geschichte der Seefahrt or Jllustrierte Geschichte des zweiten Weltkrieges. It does look odd though, at least to my eyes. ---Sluzzelin talk 08:43, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Is that an exclusively German phenomenon, then? I've never seen it on the covers of English books. --Viennese Waltz 08:48, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

J says more. Bazza (talk) 08:57, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

I didn't find much on this specific topic there, but de:J has more. ---Sluzzelin talk 23:04, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

In some older books that showed numbers in lower-case Roman numerals, whether as part of the main text or as page numbers of introductory or supplementary material, the last "i" of such numbers with at least two "i's" was sometimes rendered as "j" for clarity, so for example 8 = viii would be printed as viij. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.177.55 (talk) 11:13, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Discussed in this previous RefDesk thread. Alansplodge (talk) 18:52, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

The I/J distinction in Germany is dramatically less dimorphic than in English-speaking places. Not in printed text, with the death of blackletter/gutenbergisch/whatever they're calling it now, but it remains so in handwritten script--be it in grocers' signs or school notebooks, even among young people. Is look like Js. is don't look like js, though. You should see how they write their 1s and zs! Temerarius (talk) 13:13, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

In, at least, 18th century Spanish, Y was used as initial or capital I. Hence spellings like Ysabel or Yglesia. And in Italian, j is used instead of final i, as in Pamphilj. --Error (talk) 00:32, 1 July 2019 (UTC)