Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2020 June 1

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June 1

Indoctrination in the US Navy

Catchy heading there, I thought. In our article on the commander of Crew Dragon Demo-2, Doug Hurley, we are told "Following aviation indoctrination at Naval Air Station Pensacola, Florida, he entered flight training..." The wording is perhaps a little too faithfully copied from the the NASA source. My question is about that word "indoctrination". Is that really the language used by the US Navy? In most of the English speaking world it would be a word with strong negative connotations. I asked this question (in different words) on Talk:Doug Hurley, but despite plenty of action on the article itself, nobody seem to even be looking at the Talk page. HiLo48 (talk) 04:04, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

The International Civil Aviation Organization,[1] the Canadian government,[2][3] etc. have no qualms about referring to aviation-related "indoctrination". Clarityfiend (talk) 08:21, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

The Navy's Training Air Wing Five mentions it in "Our Mission"[4] and the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum lists "Distinguished Graduate, Naval Aviation Indoctrination Program" as one of the accomplishments of one of its Wall of Honor members.[5] It's not particularly hard to find examples. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:28, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Section Indoctrination § Military states: "The initial psychological preparation of soldiers during training is referred to (non-pejoratively) as indoctrination." The book Military Life, Vol. 2: Operational Stress contains an article with the title "Joining the ranks: The role of indoctrination in transforming civilians to service members". Wiktionary simply gives the original, neutral meaning of instruction in some doctrine as a second sense, without mentioning a military connotation.  --Lambiam 09:10, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Wow, thanks. I've learnt something here. Indoctrination is fine. (So long as it's your side doing it. HiLo48 (talk) 00:07, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Your side and "you", the willingly indoctrinated part of the system, man. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:16, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

There's no "I" in "team" and no "u" in "indoctrination". Clarityfiend (talk) 23:07, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

That's where Donald Duck comes in, less ashamed of starring in "propaganda" than he is about promoting his alternative nudist lifestyle on the taxpayer's dime. Apparently it was his uncle's dime once, so that makes his cloaca "O.K.". I forget the details, just remember he had a new hat and shirt and it helped kill Hitler, that's good enough for me! InedibleHulk (talk) 03:01, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

A-ha, Lucky Dime Caper, starring Number One Dime! InedibleHulk (talk) 03:05, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

I just want to say, all I saw was the word "Indoctrination" and the immediate thing that popped into my head was Mass Effect. I have that game to thank for teaching me that word so many years ago. --72.234.12.37 (talk) 14:01, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Rousseauian

I recently came across the word Rousseauian, meaning in the manner of Jean-Jacques Rousseau. Is 5 consecutive vowels some sort of record? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 10:00, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

• Alas, no. And there are other five-letter words, it seems, queueing and calling out alongside yours. American English may give more. Bazza (talk) 12:18, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

  Nice question, by the way. Bazza (talk) 12:19, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

• [ɹusoʊɪən] or similar, I'd have thought; very likely [ɹusowiən], with a glide. I don't see five consecutive vowels. -- Hoary (talk) 13:48, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

  Vowel letters, not vowel sounds. There's e, a, u, i, and another a all in a row. --Khajidha (talk) 14:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

  I emboldened and underlined the 5 letters so that it would be clear exactly what I meant by vowel, because "In English, the word vowel is commonly used to refer both to vowel sounds and to the written symbols that represent them". I must try harder in future. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:50, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Apparently the English record goes to euouae, "a type of cadence in medieval music", while the Hawaiian word hooiaioia ("certified") takes the international award. [6] Alansplodge (talk) 14:58, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

You could probably find some real humdingers in texts written before the i/j distinction and the u/v distinction. Though I guess they wouldn't technically count as vowels? Temerarius (talk) 03:29, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

I thought it was usually spelled Rousseauvian. --Trovatore (talk) 04:33, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Wikt:Rousseauvian says: "Alternative form of Rousseauian". Alansplodge (talk) 13:27, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

I would expect to find at least a variant with L as the linking consonant; it has better etymological support here than in Congolese for example. —Tamfang (talk) 00:39, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

• Thanks, all. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:13, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Resolved

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