Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2021 July 30

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July 30

"C.C." in Dutch - is this an abbreviation for "traditional"?

Seeing certain things credited to "C.C." in a context where usually there's a last name - am I correct in assuming this is an abbreviation of a Dutch phrase for "traditional" or "anonymous"? Not really the sort of thing Google Translate can help with, but I'm sure a reasonably-intelligent native speaker would know. Thanks! JGD 121 (talk) 01:14, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

It is not uncommon to see a piece signed by just the initials of the name of its author – often regular contributors such as editors of a periodical. So "C.C." may stand for "Caja Cazemier" or any other person with these initials who, for whatever reason, does not want to present their name prominently in the context. Citations of occurrences might help in figuring out the intention behind the abbreviation.  --Lambiam 07:49, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Nothing obvious to this native Dutch speaker. The dictionary mentions several meanings for the abbreviation CC, but none that make sense here. So, most likely these are initials: Cees Cats, Carola Cruquius, Carel Cant, ... Just making up these combinations. C is rare in ordinary Dutch writing (except in the ch digraph), but much more common in names. PiusImpavidus (talk) 08:38, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Certain things credited to "C.C." ? Corcal Cadecsser. Like in: Attributed to Creative Commons ? --Askedonty (talk) 22:16, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

In this instance, it's a list of songs on a compilation. All song titles are in Dutch, and "C.C." is the only attribution that's repeated. JGD 121 (talk) 15:36, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Nothing obvious at nl:Lijst van afkortingen in het Nederlands. Mathglot (talk) 18:43, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Maybe a reference to an older collection of public domain songs? Corpus cantionum, or something like that, although I wouldn't expect a collection of Dutch songs to have a Latin title. Or a collection of traditional songs compiled by somebody with the initials CC. Anyway, if it's a reference to an older collection, I'd expect an explanation in a foreword or something like that. PiusImpavidus (talk) 07:55, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Would you mind identifying that compilation (title, catalogue number, ...)? It might help if we could look it up ourselves. --Wrongfilter (talk) 08:03, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

This is "copyright control". It means that copyright is retained by the writer and not assigned to a third party. It is used to indicate that a work/recording is self-published, or in lieu of there being a known publisher. --Viennese Waltz 08:07, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Grammar doubt from Black Widow (2021 film)

Natasha speaks about her mother:

Natasha: I thought about her every day of my life. Whether or not I admitted it to myself, I did.

What does "it" and "did" refer to? Rizosome (talk) 07:37, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Both refer to Natasha's thinking about her mother every day of her life. So, in full,

Whether or not I admitted my thinking about my mother every day of my life to myself, I did think about my mother every day of my life.

 --Lambiam 07:54, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

In more normal English: Whether or not I admitted to myself that I thought about my mother every day of my life ... --Tamfang (talk) 19:00, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

More normal than Lambiam's expansion, duh. —Tamfang (talk) 19:28, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

The original was normal English. --184.144.99.72 (talk) 19:45, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

The original was fine as-is, and the other variations posted here work too. The question is, does the OP understand it now? And what are the odds of the OP bothering to follow up here? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:36, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

If you're that cynical about our OPs, time to take a break. Or a hike. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:30, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Not OPs in general, this one in particular: Asks a question, almost never acknowledges responses, moves on to the next question. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:46, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

I thought about Rizosome every day of my life. Whether or not I admitted it to myself, I did! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:38, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Since he was sent from the Cubs to the Evil Empire, I've thought about Rizzo some. :( ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:54, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Would you be more likely to utter Lambiam's sentence than mine? —Tamfang (talk) 00:36, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

@Tamfang:, I would not use your wording. I would use Natasha's wording. (native speaker). Mathglot (talk) 18:46, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

The purpose of these reformulations was to answer the question and explain (an aspect of) Natasha's wording, not to improve on it. The only relevant criterion is whether these reformulations do a good job in helping explain what it and did refer to.  --Lambiam 07:13, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Does your native language not have analogous constructions? --Tamfang (talk) 18:59, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

See Wikipedia articles Ellipsis (linguistics) and Pro-verb for similar constructions... AnonMoos (talk) 21:30, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

The pronoun drops of the English pro-verb constructions are not found in most other languages. For example, in French one would say, "Que je l'aie admis ou non, je l'ai fait", and in German, "Ob ich es mir zugegeben habe oder nicht, ich habe es getan". But, unlike many other languages, English does not have general pro-drop – hence the use of it in the sentence.  --Lambiam 08:46, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

The German version is very non-idiomatic, to the degree that I'd call it wrong. "Auch wenn ich es nicht zugeben wollte" or "Auch wenn ich es mir nicht eingestehen wollte" would be better (the first is a lower register, the second more formal). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:40, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

"Trans linguists are people too, you know." Martinevans123 (talk) 19:41, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

@Baseball Bugs: I can understand now.

Resolved

Rizosome (talk) 06:05, 2 August 2021 (UTC)