Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2022 February 17

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February 17

Relativity of "city", "town", etc.

Asking as an American, is the set number a place's population has to reach before it can be labelled a "city" or "town" relative to the state it's in? For example, Kansas City is much smaller than New York City. Does that mean that other places in Missouri have a lower population threshold to be labelled a "city" than those in New York? I hope I'm wording this right. Thanks, Gageills (talk) 19:10, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Both Kansas and New York are states as well as cities. I guess that also could have played a part in this nomenclature. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 19:22, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Star City, Arkansas, had at the time of incorporation (1890) a population of 204. It seems that the label is not an indication of the size.  --Lambiam 20:40, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Even more dramatic, Soldier, Kansas "is a city in Jackson County, Kansas, United States. As of the 2010 census, the city population was 136." No, I have no idea how Americans define cities. HiLo48 (talk) 22:33, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

The terms "city" and "town" and "village" and "township" and "borough" and all of the other names for geographic places in the U.S. have different usages depending on the state in question. Almost literally every state has a different way of managing their local municipalities, and what they call them, and the status they have, and there is NO national commonality. If you think Kansas City is small, check out Siler City, North Carolina, for example. In some states, there are different statuses for different terms. In some places, it is based on form of government. For example, Massachusetts makes distinctions between towns, governed by a Board of Selectmen, and cities that are governed by a Mayor-Council or Council-Manager system. In North Carolina, all municipalities are treated exactly the same by the state government. They draw no distinction by the name, and municipalities can call themselves "village", "town", "city" or whatever. Thus Cary, North Carolina, the seventh largest municipality in the state, is official the Town of Cary, while we have places like Siler City, which is MUCH smaller in population; North Carolina doesn't care. Everything is just a municipality. On the other end of the spectrum, check out Local government in New Jersey, which has 5 types of municipality, and those 5 types can have 12 different types of government. It gets really confusing, and there are no nationwide principles. Check out Local government in the United States for an introduction. --Jayron32 20:50, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Wow. This answered my question and gave me a bunch of new pages to read. Thanks a bunch :-) Gageills (talk) 03:11, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

"New York, New York, it's a helluva town!" --Trovatore (talk) 21:31, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

My kind of town, Chicago is...

I'm going to be a home-sweet-homer
There, I'll settle down
Beneath the palms, in someone's arms
In Pasadena town

--Trovatore (talk) 22:03, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

In California, incorporated cities and towns have exactly the same powers and authorities, and cities are not necessarily larger than towns. It is up to each municipality to decide which it wants to call itself. A couple of examples: Thirty years ago, I lived in San Anselmo, California, a town of about 13,000 people. I now live a few miles from Nevada City, California, which only has about 3,000 people, even though it is the county seat. Cullen328 (talk) 23:03, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

I can beat that. The "city" of St Davids has 1,600. (Yes I know the question was about American cities, but couldn't resist. Also city status is actually a conferred thing in the UK, so might be interesting) Fgf10 (talk) 00:13, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

"East side, west side, all around the town [i.e. New York City]". Also, from "Little Johnny Jones", the lyric "All aboard, goodbye to Londontown, say hello to old Broadway"[1] --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:28, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Way on down south... Londontown. --Jayron32 13:03, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

London's case is a little complicated; the original centre is the City of London, which together with the adjacent City of Westminster and 30 other London Boroughs make up Greater London, which is technically a ceremonial county, but colloqually is a city or town, depending on your whim. A city proper in the UK originally only needed a cathedral (hence the City of St Davids which is really a small village), but nowadays a Royal Charter is required. Alansplodge (talk) 15:38, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

I live in a large village (pop. around 1000), which is historically a town, because it was given a market charter in 1307. Six miles away is the city of Ripon (pop. around 16000, the only city in North Yorkshire) and fifteen miles away is the town of Harrogate (pop. 72000). The city of York is much larger, and lies geographically within North Yorkshire, but not administratively. --ColinFine (talk) 22:54, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

So, because it's a small village, the City of St Davids is just a one-horse town.  Card Zero  (talk) 07:35, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

More info in Town, and worth noting that in parts of New England, a "town" is what other states would call a "township". In New England, a "town" can have one or more villages within it. --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:09, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Actually, a New England town is an incorporated municipality, and operates like any other incorporated municipality. In most other states (outside of New England), and "township" is a administrative division of a county, and has no municipal powers. The census bureau can't deal with this, so they treat them like townships (aka minor civil division) but the state governments treat them like municipalities. --Jayron32 12:56, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Also, regarding villages, in all of the New England states EXCEPT Vermont, village is just a term for an area of urban-like density within a town; some named villages exist as postal addresses, but they have no separate governmental function. In Vermont, villages are semi-separate from the towns that surround them; in these cases the rest of the town is usually so sparsely populated that the village has incorporated separately so that certain services the town doesn't provide, it provides for itself. --Jayron32 17:27, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

In Wisconsin, on the other hand, you have a "town": a low-level entity, which governs itself through an actual annual town meeting [2] and also has an elective board, with limited governmental powers; but any portion of which can be annexed by higher-level municipal entities. Then you have a "village", with some higher powers and not subject to being shaved down by annexation; and a "city", with higher taxation and home rule powers yet. But villages do not have to become cities, and some have chosen not to. --Orange Mike | Talk 15:55, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

I grew up in Champaign, Illinois, a city coterminous with a township named Champaign City Township to distinguish it from the adjacent rural Champaign Township. (The adjacent city of Urbana is coterminous with Cunningham Township, similarly distinct from the rural Urbana Township.) In the Midwest, counties are typically divided into townships, each six miles square; Champaign and Urbana Townships appear (when they are marked on maps at all) to be what was left over when the cities were incorporated (and expanded by annexation). I would sometimes pass a building labeled Town of the City of Champaign, which was not city hall; I never did know what went on there. —Tamfang (talk) 02:10, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

@Tamfang: Perhaps something to do with City of Champaign Township? DuncanHill (talk) 02:45, 20 February 2022 (UTC)