Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2022 January 7

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January 7

What is the name of this font?

Please see this website page ---> Framed Print of Shakespearean Quote souvenir, To Be or Not to Be by William Shakespeare. In the center of the page, there is a framed portrait containing the "To be, or not to be" quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet. Does anyone know the name of that font? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 20:42, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

@Joseph A. Spadaro: Vivaldi italic Bazza (talk) 21:12, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! That was a quick reply. Very helpful! Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:01, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Resolved

Caroselli

Can I get some feedback on whether I accurately translated the following Italian quote from Caroselli:

Ai primi di aprile giungeva, a mezzo di corrieri dervisc di Belet Uen, una lettera diretta dal Mulla “Agli Italiani” con la quale, in sostanza, giustificando la sua rapida sconfitta coll’attriburla a defezione dei suoi seguaci Dulbohanta, chiedeva la nostra mediazione presso gli Inglesi ... Gl’Inglesi che sapevano questo ci son piombati addosso con tutta la gente e con sei volatili (aeroplani). Per tal fatto ci siamo sabandati e non c’e’ stato piu’ accordo fra di noi: i Dulbohanta nella maggior parte si sono arresi agli inglesi c han loro consegnato ventisette garese (case) ricolme di fucili, munizioni e danaro ... E ora diciamo ... desideriamo tu faccia qualcosa per noi nel senso di intervenire fra noi e gli inglesi per restituirci le nostre famiglie, figili, beni, terrtori. E cosi c’impegnamo sopra la nostra anima di stare in pace, tranquilli e di non disturbare mai piu’ le altre genti ee prenderemo la te la bandiera ... Saluti

 In the month of April, early on, a Dervish at Beledweyne sent a message from the Mullah "To the Italians" wherein he asks for relief at his swift defeat, attributing it to the mass flight of the Dhulbahante, furthermore seeking that we become mediators between them and the British ... The English knew about our situation and yet pounced upon us with all their men and with six birds (airplanes). Because of this, we scattered and dispersed as there was no longer an agreement between us: the Dhulbahante surrendered for the most part to the British and handed twenty-seven garesas (houses) full of guns, ammunition and money over to them. ... As such ... we request from you, ... to become mediators between ourselves and the British, as we aspire that they restore to us our stolen families, our stolen children, our stolen wealth, and our stolen territory; in this way we may enter into equitable cooperation of peace and tranquility, such that we remain quiescent, and that we take your flag. Greetings.

It comes from page 272 from this accessible source. Don't worry about translating the term "garesa" as that was already discussed here. Heesxiisolehh (talk) 20:43, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Haven't checked the whole thing, but [a]i primi di Aprile means "in early April". --Trovatore (talk) 20:46, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

In general, I'd probably go a little more literal. How about this for the first two sentences:

In early April there came, by way of dervish couriers of Beledweyne, a letter sent by the Mullah "To The Italians" in which, in substance, he justified his rapid defeat by attributing it to the defection of his Dulbohanta followers and asked for our mediation with the English. The English, who knew this, descended on us with all their men and with six birds (airplanes)."

--Trovatore (talk) 21:05, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

I was able to extract most of that text from here: https://books.google.it/books?id=hGVoAAAAMAAJ&q=inauthor:%22Domenico+Quirico%22&dq=inauthor:%22Domenico+Quirico%22&hl=it&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&redir_esc=y It looks like your text is a little corrupted with missing letters. Here is what I was able to find: "Mentre gli aerei mitragliavano a bassa quota, tutti cominciarono a fuggire. Il Mullah non è più quell'intrepido cavallerizzo incontrato vent'anni prima dal bravo Pestalozza. È un uomo malato, obeso, che cammina a fatica, logorato da mille battaglie e delusioni. Ad aprile, quando già a Londra festeggiano la scomparsa di quel tignoso nemico, arriva a Belet Uen, estremo avamposto della nostra frontiera verso l'Ogaden e l'Abissinia, una lettera con il timbro del Mullah: Gli inglesi ci sono piombati addosso con tutta le gente con sei volatili. Per tal fatto ci siamo sbandati e non c'è stato più accordo tra di noi: nella maggior parte si sono arresi agli inglesi e hanno consegnato ventisette case ricolme di fucili, munizioni e denaro. ... E ora diciamo siamo arrivati a questo confine e desideriamo tu faccia qualcosa per noi nel senso di intervenire tra noi e gli inglesi per restituirci le nostre famiglie, figli, beni, territori. E così ci impegniamo sopra la nostra anima di stare in pace, tranquilli e di non disturbare mai più le altre genti e prenderemo da te la bandiera. Questo abbiamo scritto. Saluti." --79.49.59.202 (talk) 11:01, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Name of the letter W

In English and the Romance languages, W has a special name, indicating it is a "double letter". But in German its name is simply VAY. Why did German remove the "double"?? Georgia guy (talk) 22:27, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

I think it's named after the original archaic sixth letter of the Greek alphabet (dropped from the familiar "Classical" 24-letter Ionian form of the alphabet)... AnonMoos (talk) 00:30, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

User:AnonMoos, that can't be right. That is digamma; the German pronunciation "VAY" sounds nothing like that. Georgia guy (talk) 01:15, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Whatever -- "digamma" is a retrospective name, invented after the [w] sound had disappeared from most ancient Greek dialects (not the name used when the letter was actually being used to write a [w] sound). Note how our digamma article begins "Digamma, waw, or wau"? I didn't include the old name in my previous comment, because it has many, many alternate transcriptions, and I didn't want to deal with the whole variant transliteration issue... AnonMoos (talk) 01:55, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

The German pronunciation is [veː], not [veɪ], although it is a distinction English speakers seem to have difficulties with. Since there isn't any other letter making the same sound in German, it just has the same [e:] ending as a bunch of other letters in the alphabet. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 03:18, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

AnonMoos, the letter in German whose name would seem to represent a continuation of the ancient Greek digamma would be V, not W, because it's called "Vau" in German, reflecting ancient "waw"/"wau"/"vau" (but now of course pronounced /fau/). See V#Names in other languages, describing how that was also used as the name of consonantal V by Latin grammarians. /ve:/ for W is just an analogical new formation in German. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:41, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusion on my part, but Georgia_Guy's "WAY"[sic] conveyed very little meaning to my mind, and it seemed like it could stand for either or both of the letter names German Vau and German Weh. I had to guess which one was meant, and I guessed wrong... AnonMoos (talk) 20:52, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

You can only remove something from a name if it is part of the name. Is there an indication that at any time the German name for the letter contained something suggesting that it was double? One can say doppeltes Vau in German, but this means VV, not W.^[1] Lambiam (talk) 01:50, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

• @Georgia guy: From where did you read that the Germans used to have "double" in their name of the letter and then dropped it? --Jayron32 02:41, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

  User:Jayron32, I'm sure the letter W was always intended to be called "double V" except in English where it became "double U". Most of today's languages still do so, but German doesn't. When did German first use the letter W and what was its historical name?? Was German the first language to give W a name not to have the word "double" in it?? Georgia guy (talk) 02:43, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

  That's a better question; never assume anything as true for which there is not already clear evidence in acceptance. One can ask "what is the history of the German name of the letter "W""? That carries no assumptions. To ask "Why did German stop using "double" in the name" presumes that it actually used to. Maybe it did. Maybe it didn't. Don't ask questions that contain assumption you don't already have clear evidence as likely true. That's a plurium interrogationum and it introduces all kinds of logical problems. --Jayron32 02:50, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

(Post by banned user removed. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:17, 14 January 2022 (UTC))

The statement that "Portuguese is the closest Romance language to Latin bar Sard" would probably need a source. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 13:56, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

It sounds implausible to me. It's semi-notorious that Portuguese speakers find it easier to understand Spanish than Spanish speakers do Portuguese, and the main reason is that the Portuguese language is more "derived" in phonology (nasal vowels, reduced vowels, palatalizations, etc)... AnonMoos (talk) 20:55, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

We (Cyrillic) gives no pronunciation. Is it called "we"? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:51, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

It's apparently a very rare letter, Kurdish basically seems to have scrapped Cyrillic in favor of Latin, and Yukaghir is moribund. That only leaves Yaghnobi, where it seems to be in actual use, although Yaghnobi is primarily a spoken language. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 01:28, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

p.s. the name of the letter in Welsh is 'u' (see The Welsh alphabet). Martinevans123 (talk) 21:41, 9 January 2022 (UTC)