Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2022 June 6

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June 6

Bronze Age sword component (in German)

Hi! Anybody know what a 'halb­ rundem Griffansatz' is? It's some part of the hilt on a type of (Late Bronze Age) sword...  Tewdar  10:34, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Half round grip starting point. There are two possible "starting points", though, and many bronze age swords have a rounded top to the blade where it joins the grip (where modern-era swords have a guard), so perhaps that is what is meant. I'm looking for a wild example of "Griffansatz" to be sure which end it is. (Update) here's a page which suggests ein Griffansatz is the part of the blade where the handle is attached. But this other page talks about the "Bogenförmiger Griffansatz", which means arched (literally bow-form), and I think that sword is all one solid lump of metal, so it's talking about the top end of the blade near the grip. It clearly isn't talking about the pommel, because it describes that separately as "ein Scheibenknauf" (a disc knob).  Card Zero  (talk) 11:37, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

I think it usually means the end of the hilt that is nearest to the blade. Take, for instance, "Die Klinge hat kaum Ricasso, d,h, sie ist fast bis zum Griffansatz geschliffen."^[1] This means, "The blade has hardly any ricasso, i.e., it is ground almost to the end of the hilt." This only makes sense if that end is the base of the hilt, not the far end. That was also the case for other uses I saw where the context made a discrimination possible.  --Lambiam 19:54, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Okay, I think it's this book, pg 259(?),Tab. XLVII, item "1" (which I think is the sword at the top left?), and it is mentioned on pg 148 of the same book. Thanks for the suggestions so far! 😁👍  Tewdar  20:04, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Selten sind auch Schwerter, am häufigsten sind Exemplare mit Zungengriff und halbrundem Griffansatz vertreten - swords are also rare [among the finds]: the most commonly represented examples have tongue-grips and semi-circular grip-onsets. The picture has the same Jony Ive looking design as several of the swords shown in the article bronze age sword, with the rounded corners at the top of the blade, which surely must be what the grip-onset is (in this case). In the examples in the article it's more clearly part of the grip - the grip extends into a rounded shape to envelop that part of the blade. I think the example in your picture doesn't have the grip as such, because at some point in the last three and a half thousand years it fell off, leaving the internal part which is of one piece with blade. The hole (in what must be the "tongue") is for a rivet to hold the grip in place: compare with the sword labelled #4 in this picture.  Card Zero  (talk) 22:11, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

"Tongue-grips and semi-circular grip-onsets" should do it. Thank you very much!  Tewdar  22:39, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

If you want an English translation, it's the "shoulders". Example use of "shoulders" for that part of bronze-age swords - see third picture. Also the tongue is a tang.  Card Zero  (talk) 22:41, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Similarity between terms for Mom/Dad in multiple languages

Why do so many languages utilize similar terms for mom/dad, or grandma/grandpa. Example: Korean utilizes "umma" for mom and "appa" for dad, which are similar to German "oma" for grandma and "opa" for grandpa. Hebrew has "abba" for father, etc. But most of these do not have linguistic ties that I have found. 50.205.203.133 (talk) 15:10, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

The short answer is that they originate from adults attaching meaning to infant syllable babbling, independently many times. We have an article Mama and papa... AnonMoos (talk) 15:31, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

It's tagged as "false etymology", but it could also be that the universality of baby sounds overwhelm local languages. Kind of like with laughter. --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:33, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

On the bonk

Is it only UK that uses the expression "on the bonk"? And how did it originate? Thanks. 86.187.163.36 (talk) 15:46, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

From googling, it seems to mean an "erection". Extension of the term "bonk" meaning sexual intercourse, would seem likely. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 16:31, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

The OED has a quote from Martin Amis's Success: I'd really set up camp down there and make bloody sure she had a great time so it wouldn't matter that much when I didn't get a bonk, under the meaning "An act of sexual intercourse"; it seems to me to be clearly referring to an erection. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 16:43, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

No, "bonk" means the act of intercourse - not an erection. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:03, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Wiktionary has an entry for bonk-on as a UK synonym of hard-on. I have a hard time finding uses of the collocation on the bonk.  --Lambiam 19:30, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

The tabloid sobriquet of "Bonking Boris", once reserved for the blond destroyer Baron von Slam, has now been lately transferred to Slimey Mr Toad, it seems. There can be little doubt that the two terms are connected. "On the bonk" was commonly used when I was at school (in South Wales). But no idea if it has been used elsewhere in the UK or beyond. I have never seen it written. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:22, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, "on the bonk" for erection was in use at school in London in the 1970s, but not heard since. Alansplodge (talk) 12:58, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Ah yes, the wonderful 70s. I recall it had added significance on the day of the school Swimming Gala. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:16, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

This article claims that "bonk" or "bonking", in the sense of having sexual intercourse, is of Australian origin - though it is fairly commonplace and understood in Britain. I've never heard the term "on the bonk". Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:01, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Wiktionary doesn't seem to have any cross-reference between bonk and boink (which is more common in the U.S. in a sexual meaning)... AnonMoos (talk) 22:45, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

It does say:

"Verb boink (third-person singular simple present boinks, present participle boinking, simple past and past participle boinked) (informal) To have sexual intercourse; to bonk" and

"Verb bonk (third-person singular simple present bonks, present participle bonking, simple past and past participle bonked) ... Synonyms: boink, discuss Uganda, have sex;" Martinevans123 (talk) 07:31, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Some may need this explanation... Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:43, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Pretty sure it is basically unknown in the US. The only "bonk" I can recall ever hearing simply means "to hit". Example: "I bonked my head on the door while getting out of the car".--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:31, 7 June 2022 (UTC)