Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2023 August 14
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August 14
editSlavic and Latin feminine gendered endings
editDid Slavic languages borrow the feminine gendered ending of adjectives -aya (as in novaya - new one) from the corresponding Latin -a (nova) and/or the Greek ones? 212.180.235.46 (talk) 13:07, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
- No, the slavic, greek, and latin endings are inherited from a common ancestor (Proto-Indo-European). There is no borrowing involved Ioe bidome (talk) 13:09, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
- 212.180.235.46 -- Languages usually don't borrow morphological inflections from other languages for use in native words, unless the speakers of the languages are in close contact. (Of course borrowed words can have borrowed inflections, such as "alumnus"/"alumni", but that's different and more superficial.) AnonMoos (talk) 16:48, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
- Affixes are easily borrowed: cf. rapist from native Germanic root and borrowed Latin suffix; or womanizer; or gamification. 147.234.72.52 (talk) 20:43, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
- There's a difference between morphological affixes like russian -aya and derivational affixes like English -ist, or -ize(r)Ioe bidome (talk) 20:56, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
- If the Russian affix in question is the feminine marker, then a more relevant English example is goddess, once again comprising a native Germanic root and a borrowed Latin suffix. 147.234.72.52 (talk) 21:30, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
- Russian has grammatical gender i.e the gender is "built in" to words, English hasn't had grammatical gender since Middle English Ioe bidome (talk) 21:52, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
- If the Russian affix in question is the feminine marker, then a more relevant English example is goddess, once again comprising a native Germanic root and a borrowed Latin suffix. 147.234.72.52 (talk) 21:30, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
- There's a difference between morphological affixes like russian -aya and derivational affixes like English -ist, or -ize(r)Ioe bidome (talk) 20:56, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
- Affixes are easily borrowed: cf. rapist from native Germanic root and borrowed Latin suffix; or womanizer; or gamification. 147.234.72.52 (talk) 20:43, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
- 147.234.72.52 -- English "-ess" is derivational, not inflectional... AnonMoos (talk) 22:13, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
- How does one tell a derivational feminine marker from an inflectional feminine marker? 147.234.72.52 (talk) 22:30, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
- 147.234.72.52 -- English "-ess" is derivational, not inflectional... AnonMoos (talk) 22:13, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
- There's probably a Wikipedia article on it, but the short answer is that an inflection is usually part of a paradigm: singular-plural, nominative-accusative-genitive-dative, masculine-feminine (in adjectives and similar), etc. The suffix -ess is applied highly selectively to a few words, which is more of a derivational thing. Derivation is also usually "inside" inflection (i.e. closer to the stem): Actr-ess-es, where the feminine derivational suffix is nearer to the stem than the plural inflectional suffix. AnonMoos (talk) 00:27, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- How would you classify Taw#Tāʼ marbūṭa, which is added to adjectives (e.g. جديد jadīd "new (m)" → جديدة jadīda "new (f)") and nouns (e.g. ممثل mumaṯṯil "actor" → ممثلة mumaṯṯila "actress", or إله ʼilāh "god" → إلاهة ʼilāha "goddess") alike? Derivational or inflectional? 147.234.72.52 (talk) 08:05, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- The ending which is spelled with Ta Marbutah in the Arabic alphabet actually has several functions in the Arabic language, such as forming individuated singular nouns from a collective plural, etc. I haven't studied the matter in detail, but there's nothing that would prevent it from being inflectional in some cases and derivational in others. In its probably most common use, forming the feminine singular (and inanimate plural) forms of adjectives, it's inflectional... AnonMoos (talk) 23:28, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
- How would you classify Taw#Tāʼ marbūṭa, which is added to adjectives (e.g. جديد jadīd "new (m)" → جديدة jadīda "new (f)") and nouns (e.g. ممثل mumaṯṯil "actor" → ممثلة mumaṯṯila "actress", or إله ʼilāh "god" → إلاهة ʼilāha "goddess") alike? Derivational or inflectional? 147.234.72.52 (talk) 08:05, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- There's probably a Wikipedia article on it, but the short answer is that an inflection is usually part of a paradigm: singular-plural, nominative-accusative-genitive-dative, masculine-feminine (in adjectives and similar), etc. The suffix -ess is applied highly selectively to a few words, which is more of a derivational thing. Derivation is also usually "inside" inflection (i.e. closer to the stem): Actr-ess-es, where the feminine derivational suffix is nearer to the stem than the plural inflectional suffix. AnonMoos (talk) 00:27, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- By the way, it seems as if both rape and -ist are Latinate borrowings, even if the formation rapist itself is native English... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 23:12, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
- wikt:Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/hrapōną disagrees. 147.234.72.52 (talk) 06:01, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- I think it's unclear which meaning of the word the page refers to. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 11:16, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- Maybe the user 40bus might have some input on this question. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:13, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- All other listed descendants, including the Old and Middle English entries, are verbs; so, it seems most likely that the intended Modern English meaning is the verb, too. 147.234.72.52 (talk) 14:31, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- I think it's unclear which meaning of the word the page refers to. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 11:16, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- wikt:Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/hrapōną disagrees. 147.234.72.52 (talk) 06:01, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
- By the way, it seems as if both rape and -ist are Latinate borrowings, even if the formation rapist itself is native English... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 23:12, 14 August 2023 (UTC)