Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2023 May 13
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May 13
editFalling diphthongs in Romance languages
editHi, is there a reason why Portuguese and Catalan falling diphthongs are transcribed with /j,w/ as the second element, and Italian and Spanish with /i,u/? I noticed also that the Wiktionary transcribes also Italian falling diphthongs with /j,w/.-- Carnby (talk) 10:15, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
Does Rhoticity still exist in Welsh English?
editAre there any rhotic varieties of Welsh English left? Given the fact that /r/ is common in the Welsh language, especially as a word-final syllabic consonant (rhestr, for instance). Also other Celtic influenced dialects of English in the British Isles (Scottish English, Irish English, and Cornish English) are rhotic.95.144.204.68 (talk) 20:13, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
- The article you link says "Welsh English is mostly non-rhotic, however variable rhoticity can be found in accents influenced by Welsh, especially northern varieties. Additionally, while Port Talbot English is mostly non-rhotic like other varieties of Welsh English, some speakers may supplant the front vowel of bird with /ɚ/, like in many varieties of North American English.[19]" --Jayron32 11:48, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
- Wait how come Welsh English is non-rhotic but the rest of Celtic influenced dialects of English are rhotic. 95.144.204.68 (talk) 21:13, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
- The varieties of English spoken in various places is not necessarily influenced by the other languages that may be spoken in those places; especially of note is that the Celtic languages native to the British isles (Welsh language, Cornish language, Scottish Gaelic, and Irish language) are all minority languages today. Cornish was basically extinct as a language before a relatively modern revival; the English spoken in Cornwall is mostly influenced by West Country English, which is a conservative dialect and would have resembled the type of English spoken by even prestige classes prior to the 19th century (Queen Elizabeth I, for example, would have sounded more "Pirate" than "Posh"). Scottish English is much more influenced by the Scots language, which like English is a Germanic (and not Celtic) language and diverged from what became modern English sometime in the early middle English period. Scots is rhotic. The variety of English spoken in Wales was likely influenced strongly by the Welsh Not, a 19th century education program to eradicate the Welsh language from education and replace it with the "standard" variety of English; since this was the time when non-Rhotic English (Received Pronunciation) was becoming the prestige dialect; it makes sense that this would be what was taught in schools at the time. --Jayron32 11:08, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
- As a very minor addendum, you could also have included Manx. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.210.77 (talk) 13:48, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
- Another mostly unused language, even on Mann. --Jayron32 14:02, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
- As a very minor addendum, you could also have included Manx. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.210.77 (talk) 13:48, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
- The varieties of English spoken in various places is not necessarily influenced by the other languages that may be spoken in those places; especially of note is that the Celtic languages native to the British isles (Welsh language, Cornish language, Scottish Gaelic, and Irish language) are all minority languages today. Cornish was basically extinct as a language before a relatively modern revival; the English spoken in Cornwall is mostly influenced by West Country English, which is a conservative dialect and would have resembled the type of English spoken by even prestige classes prior to the 19th century (Queen Elizabeth I, for example, would have sounded more "Pirate" than "Posh"). Scottish English is much more influenced by the Scots language, which like English is a Germanic (and not Celtic) language and diverged from what became modern English sometime in the early middle English period. Scots is rhotic. The variety of English spoken in Wales was likely influenced strongly by the Welsh Not, a 19th century education program to eradicate the Welsh language from education and replace it with the "standard" variety of English; since this was the time when non-Rhotic English (Received Pronunciation) was becoming the prestige dialect; it makes sense that this would be what was taught in schools at the time. --Jayron32 11:08, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
- Wait how come Welsh English is non-rhotic but the rest of Celtic influenced dialects of English are rhotic. 95.144.204.68 (talk) 21:13, 15 May 2023 (UTC)