Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2024 January 5

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

January 5

Questions

1. Are there any Spanish dialects that have /v/ or /z/ phoneme?
2. Does Portuguese have a past anterior? Like French eus parle or Spanish hube cantado? If it exists, it would be formed in following way:

tive cantado

tiveste cantado

teve cantado

tivemos cantado

tivestes cantado

tiveram cantado

3. Does Catalan have a future subjunctive? --40bus (talk) 16:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Question 1

Spanish v and z Judaeo-Spanish#Phonology if you consider it a dialect:

While Spanish pronounces both b and v as /b/ ([b] or [β]), Judeo-Spanish distinguishes between the two with b representing [b~β] and v representing [v]: bivir /biˈviɾ/ ('to live')

The article also displays /s/ and /z/ in the consonants diagram.

Linguistic features of Spanish as spoken by Catalan speakers:

Higher frequency of /s/ voicing and the occurrence thereof between vowels.

es:Variedad del idioma español en territorios catalanófonos:

* En los lugares donde se conserva el fonema [v] en catalán, tanto en valenciano como en balear, también se transfiere esta diferencia en castellano entre b [b]/[β] y v [v] a las palabras cognadas.

• Articulación de la s sonora [z] con mayor frecuencia, e incluso entre vocales.

--Error (talk) 13:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Not a Spanish speaker, but I translate:

"Variety of the Spanish idiom in Catalan speaking territories"

"In the places where is conserved the phoneme [v] in Catalan, so much in Valencian as in the Balearics, also is transferred this difference in Castillian between b [b]/[β] and v [v] to the cognate words."

"Articulation of the s sounds [z] with more frequency, is included between vowels." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7B:228:3400:6512:B1E5:DFB6:B10B (talk) 14:02, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Question 2

I typed "past anterior" into the search box, and as I suspected would happen it redirected to pluperfect. You're using the preterite of ter to form your pluperfect, but the article says the imperfect form of the auxiliary verb is used in practice. 31.113.52.197 (talk) 19:18, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

The "past anterior" is a form where auxiliary verb is put on the preterite. It is also called "second pluperfect". --40bus (talk) 19:47, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Don't you mean "auxiliary verb is put on the past participle"? 31.113.52.197 (talk) 19:57, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Question 3

3. Doesn't seem like it. Catalan_grammar#Verbs. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 16:58, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

40bus -- The conditional in Catalan is formed the same way as the future tense, but using different endings (as is also the case in French), but there's no "future subjunctive" that I can see in my "Teach Yourself Catalan" book... AnonMoos (talk) 18:54, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

40bus, in Romance languages that still have it, the future subjunctive is antiquated or rare, and a Teach Yourself wouldn't include it, as it is as useless to language learners as teaching thou and thee conjugations is to English language learners. Though Spanish has a future subjunctive (or had it), Catalan does not. There are several ways to express future action in Catalan: in the indicative, simple or compound future tense, or in the subjunctive, the present or past perfect. Some believe there is a shade of difference in meaning, with the subjunctive carrying less certainty; others believe they are identical in meaning. Source: § 4.5.1.3 at El subjuntiu en català. Mathglot (talk) 20:36, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

The Future Subjunctive is vibrant in Portuguese (possibly aided by its compact tense endings). 80.47.0.18 (talk) 13:13, 11 January 2024 (UTC)