Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2024 September 16
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September 16
editWhy is "some" not an article?
edit"The" can be singular or plural:
- I see the crow
- I see the crows
But "a"/"an" can only be singular:
- I see a crow
- *I see a crows
Instead, in the last case, we'd use "some":
- I see some crows
So, if "the" and "a" are articles, why is "some" not an article? Marnanel (talk) 15:28, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- The plural equivalent of "I see a crow" is simply "I see crows". Some specifies indefiniteness but also quantity, just like four—which makes it a determinative, but not an article. Remsense ‥ 论 15:34, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- The word “some” can also be used in the singular, like in “Some guy dropped this package off at the front desk earlier.” I would still consider it a demonstrative, however. Primal Groudon (talk) 15:39, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- That's a good question, Marnanel. An article expresses ±DEFINITE, no more. You could say that a (of course with its allomorph an) also expresses −PLURAL; or you could say that if it's simply −DEFINITE but is unspoken if the head is plural. Saying "expresses ±DEFINITE, no more" might also be complicated slightly by an unusual use of the (one that, come to think of it, I haven't heard for quite some time), as in "'Never Surrender High-Top' is the sneaker this season" (requiring a heavy emphasis on the). Other determinatives express ±DEFINITE but also more besides: examples include both (definite) and either (indefinite). Some too is more complex than just −DEFINITE. The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language (CamGEL, on pp 380–381) describes five interpretations of some. Three are exemplified by "We discussed the problem at some length", "Some day I will win the lottery", and "Some hotel that was! An utter disgrace!" Each of these three rather obviously expresses something other than indefiniteness; let's put the three kinds aside. More of a challenge are the other two, which don't so obviously come with extra semantic baggage. One is exemplified by "There are some letters for you". CamGEL says "[this example is] not concerned with a subset of letters belonging to a certain larger set. There is accordingly no 'not all' implicature, but often there will be a 'not multal' implicature – that the number of letters or amount of sugar is not particularly large." The fifth interpretation is exemplified by "Some people left early" and "Some cheese is made from goat's milk" (note that the latter has a singular head). "Here [...] we are concerned with quantity relative to some larger set, so that there is a clear 'not all' (and indeed 'not most') implicature". I think we can say that some is insufficiently bland to be classed as an article. Yes, it's a determinative (functioning as a determiner). No it's not a demonstrative. -- Hoary (talk) 08:27, 19 September 2024 (UTC) Wording tinkered with; 00:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- Linguists would often say that the most accurate classification of "some" is as a quantifier word (not a traditional part of speech). Wikipedia doesn't seem to have an article on this, but only on Generalized quantifier and Quantifier (logic), which are not about word categories, but more abstract and purely semantic concepts. AnonMoos (talk) 18:44, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
- "Many" is not an article either. It's an adjective. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:00, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think that anyone has suggested that many is an article. It's not an adjective; it's a determinative. Consider for example its use (and adjectives' non-use) in partitive constructions: All/both/most/some/none/many/*universal/*large/*major/*cheap of them remained unsold. For more on the distinction between adjective and determinative, see CamGEL, pp. 538–540. -- Hoary (talk) 23:19, 21 September 2024 (UTC)