Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2024 September 20

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September 20

Thüringern

According to Wiktionary, the names of some German regions derives from the dative plural form of the name of the inhabitants or eponymous tribe. A few examples are:
Angel (Angle, Anglian person): Angeln (the region of Anglia)
Bayer (Bavarian person): Bayern (the region of Bavaria)
Franke (Franconian person): Franken (the region of Franconia)
Hesse (Hessian person): Hessen (the region of Hesse)
Sachse (Saxonian person): Sachsen (the region of Saxony)
Schwabe (Swabian person): Schwaben (the region of Swabia)
Apparently this is not the case for Thuringia:
Thüringer (Thuringian person): Thüringern; actual name: Thüringen (Thuringia).
Is there a reason for it? Are there other examples? Thank you! 195.62.160.60 (talk) 17:56, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

It could just have been phonetically simplified, due to -Vn being easier to pronounce than -Vrn, I presume. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 21:36, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Various sources mention an Old German etymon Duringa. An n can have been added in analogy with other region names. BTW, the unstressed ending -ern in Modern German is pronounded almost the same as -en: /-ɐn/ versus /-ən/.  --Lambiam 22:56, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Almost, but for speakers of German varieties that have a vocalic reflex of syllable-final + pre-consonantal r, the difference between /ɐ/ versus /ə/ is like day and night, or rather, like blue and green.–Austronesier (talk) 09:45, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Map of the Thuringian States in 1890

The difference with the other ethnonmys ("tribonyms"?) is that Thüringer uses the derivative suffix -er that makes it a demonym paired with the toponym Thüringen. And there are hundred such pairs -inger ~ -ingen. The use of the suffix -er is a late analogous formation. In Middle High German, the ethnonym is Düringe (plural form), as mentioned in Hugo von Trimberg's Der Renner (next to die Franken, die Sahsen; but note: die Beier, die Oesterrîche also without without n in MHG). Note also the initial d- as the "correct" reflex of early continental West Germanic /θ/ (rendered as th- in medieval Latin documents). The Th- spelling is a learned Latin-based modification of Düringen which was the common spelling before the disintegration of Thuringia in the 16/17th century. –Austronesier (talk) 09:45, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Add: The MHG singular was Düring. Based on that form, Düringen perfectly fits the dative plural pattern. It was broken by the late back-formation Thüringer from learned Thüringen. –Austronesier (talk) 10:02, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

And I suppose it's pronounced with a regular t-sound, nowadays. (Thailand has an aspirated t-sound, but that is probably irrelevant.) 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 11:02, 21 September 2024 (UTC)