Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2006 August 13
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Haymaker punching
editWhy is it called a 'haymaker' please!--212.74.96.197 00:01, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Probably because the physical motions involved in throwing it are similar to the act of hoisting a bundle of hay onto the back of a cart. Anchoress 00:49, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Oh yeah, i didnt think of that. thanks--212.74.96.197 00:56, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- According to The Word Detective of June 11, 2002 because it mimics the motion of cutting hay with a scythe. (Don't know if it's true; just reporting what I found.) --LambiamTalk 02:10, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
well it could be a scyth instead. but which one is it. im confused now--212.74.96.197 19:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
guitar
editi have an acoustic guitar, and when i play lower down the neck towards the body, the sound sounds muffled and unsharp
is this normal, or should i get new strings?
- Without more information there are a lot of things that could be causing it, but if it is an actual problem, it's more likely to be worn frets or mountings, or warping (of the neck or the body). I'd recommend taking your baby to the manufacturer, the shop you bought it from or a trusted guitar repair person, and have it checked. Good technicians will be able to tell you what's wrong in about 30 seconds for free, and most problems (even severe ones) can be repaired. Anchoress 01:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, something you can do beforehand is just to check the body end of your pegs to make sure they aren't loose.--Anchoress 02:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- And try not to fret about it in the meantime. :-) StuRat 03:11, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- What kind of acoustic guitar? Classical of western? If a classical guitar is warped there isn't much you can do about it. Then again, warping could cause the 'unsharp' bit but not the muffled sound. Old stings could cause both, at least with a classical guitar. One should ideally replace these every month with intensive playing. I don't know much about western guitars, but I think the strings last much longer. The steel strings, however, have more tension and are therefore more sensitive and more easily out of tune, so it could just be a tuning problem. I suppose this also means that a warped guitar is worse in that case, so it makes more sense to be able to adjust the neck with such guitars. (oh, and never put steel strings on a classical guitar - the tension will ruin it). By the way, why is a western guitar called 'flat top' at the guitar article? A classical guitar also has a flat top. And is there a difference between the terms western, country and folk guitar? The relevant articles don't seem to say. DirkvdM 08:29, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- I think "flat top" is a back formation to distinguish them from archtop guitars; classical guitars aren't part of that distinction at all. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 16:05, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- They're guitars and they have a flat top. How can they then not be part of the classification? DirkvdM 07:15, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
- I think "flat top" is a back formation to distinguish them from archtop guitars; classical guitars aren't part of that distinction at all. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 16:05, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- What I was thinking of v/v the muffling and warping is that strings depressed near the body can vibrate against the wood, buzzing in a muffly kind of way. ;-) Anchoress 08:44, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- If the action is to low, the strings (particularly the thicker ones which vibrate further) will hit the frets and cause it to 'buzz' and muffle. If it is adjustable there will be two large screw like thing either side of the bridge, if it isnt, theres nothing you can do. Philc TECI 10:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
THANK YOU :-)
hey,dirkvdm,
i think the difference betweeen a western, folk, country, etc. guitar is in the way you play it and your style. something about the scales and such that you use, i think. I've never heard of any different models for different styles and i don't see how that'd be possible anyway.- the guy who asked this question (i don' have a username right now)
A question about Canadian law and domestic partnerships
editI know you don't usually answer legal questions, but it's not about or for me, the person it is about doesn't think there's a problem, and I'd never bother actually talking to a lawyer about it.
A friend of mine owns a house and is platonically sharing it with her business partner, who is part owner of her corporation (I don't use the term lightly, it isn't a proprietorship, it's a major corporation). I wonder if she needs the protection of a cohabitation agreement? I'm not asking if it would be a good idea, obviously it would, but does she need it. If someone who knows Canadian law says 'yes', I might be able to convince her to do it. Thanks in advance. 207.81.121.89 02:05, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- I am not a lawyer. But my understanding is that the rules about this vary from province to province. I believe that in Ontario a person has no claim on the family home owned by his or her common-law spouse. So two co-habiting but not-sleeping-together people shouldn't have any additional responsibilities. But this is clearly something she should discuss with her lawyer. Pburka 17:36, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Hello
editI am new but interested in articles here. Do you think I'm hot? I have a pic on my userpage.Courtney Akins 02:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Hmmm, I think you win the prize for the most original vote solicitation method for an AFD. Anchoress 03:03, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Even your picture seems to have been deleted. Maybe it was too hot? Did it incinerate? DirkvdM 08:36, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- I haven't seen a question like this for a while. --Proficient 16:37, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Nope, sorry. Not sure if this is a reasonable question for the page though.. digfarenough (talk) 00:21, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes Courntey, you are hot like a Fireball. drop me a line on my talk page, haven't seen you around here before, welcome to the ref desk, a place to meet peiople as stunningly beautiful as yourself. can i buy you a drink?ect ect ect. lolAnton 09:49, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
- fairly hot I suppose, actually I prefer your friend. AllanHainey 12:10, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
- As hot as a fat, flatulent, follicularly-challenged, forty-year-old man can be. Do you live in your parents' basement? Did you get kicked off myspace, troll? 195.171.177.226 12:32, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
- Woah, the above answer's a bit harsh - it was a simple question. There are many ways you can gauge your hotness yourself - are you perspiring? Do you need some water? Are you impelled to fan your face or clothing? A thermometer may also prove useful. Natgoo 17:59, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
- Courtney, where you say on your user page that you "dance part time", do you mean the kind of dancing usually involving a pole?
- Not that their's anything wrong with that. humblefool® 06:38, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
- Courtney, where you say on your user page that you "dance part time", do you mean the kind of dancing usually involving a pole?
- Truthfully you have fairly good,regular features,nothing special but dress in a rather slutty way so move down the hotness measure to "warmish if desperate"-hotclaws**==(82.138.214.1 15:29, 15 August 2006 (UTC))
Pineapples
editWe've just read the article on pineapples on wikipedia. we were wondering if they grow on trees or in the ground.
- The article isn't as clear as it could be. Pineapples grow on trees, but since they're so short (under 5 feet) the fruit can be considered to be grown 'on the ground'. I've never heard of pineapples being grown under the ground, but perhaps Courtney, who answered you below, will be able to provide more information. Anchoress 04:32, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Some kinds grow in the ground but they are very rare and expensive.Courtney Akins 04:23, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Courtney, where did you hear that? Do you have references?--Anchoress 04:32, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
The popular kind of pineapple sold in stores is the tree-grown variety. However, I remember seeing the "root pineapple" being cultivated in Monserrat when I was a little girl there with my parents. This has never been a successful export due to its rarity and somewhat bland taste (akin to Yucca).Courtney Akins 05:10, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- So is it actually a varitey of pineapple that has evolved or been cultivated to have the fruit grown underground? Or is it a different variety of (fruit? root veg?) that is just called a pineapple? Googling different things ('underground pineapple montserrat', 'montserrat pineapple' 'root pineapple montserrat') didn't turn up anything. Anchoress 05:18, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Exactly! It is more like a root that is colloquially called something that translates into "pineapple" but i dont know if its part of the pineapple family, scientifically speaking. I think that's what the guy was getting at above.Courtney Akins 06:02, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- If you look at the images on the Wikipedia pineapple page, you can see both a field of plants, and an individual plant. Assuming one has an idea of the size of an average pineapple fruit, it should give an idea of the size of the "tree." I personally wouldn't call the plant a tree, althuogh there may be botanic reasons to do so. --LarryMac 18:11, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Alan Greenspan
editWhat is Alan Greenspan's (former Chairman of the Federal Reserve) full name? --MZMcBride 04:21, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- A few web pages have a middle initial "J" ([1] [2]), but the number of Google hits is underwhelming. On the face of it, I'd venture the conjecture that our man does not have a middle name. --LambiamTalk 06:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Alan Greenspan had no middle name until January 23 of this year when he adopted the middle initial C. The initial was originally bestowed upon him by an anonymous editor. Pburka 17:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- I thought that too, until I Googled "Alan C. Greenspan" and it got few (but you would think accurate) results. A U.S. Senate page, and a Columbia Business School page both had his middle initial as "C." --MZMcBride 17:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Alan Greenspan had no middle name until January 23 of this year when he adopted the middle initial C. The initial was originally bestowed upon him by an anonymous editor. Pburka 17:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Postage Stamps
editWhy do stamps have the ridged edges?
- So you can tear them apart more easily. - Nunh-huh 06:55, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- See our article on Postage stamp separation. --LambiamTalk 06:56, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Maybe I should have asked: with precut stamps on wax paper why do the stamps have the ridges? Is it just tradition?
- What country are you in? The stamps I buy here in Canada aren't. Anchoress 07:29, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- In the Netherlands such stamps have ridged edges. When they came out I also wondered why that was and assumed it was a matter of tradition. Funny, the very first stamps weren't separated by perforation, and at the time that was a problem. Now that it no longer is, we're so used to them it takes time to get rid of them. DirkvdM 08:45, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- For self-adhesive stamps it's just tradition; also the same design may still be used for self-adhesive and ordinary stamps, so it avoids confusion if the two types look the same. -- Arwel (talk) 13:35, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Im in the USA
- It may also be a security issue. Perforated stamps are harder to forge. (BTW the little perforated holes have a techincal name which I used to know 20 years ago but has evaporated from my mind. -- SGBailey 21:10, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Chad? Anchoress 21:18, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- selvage -- SGBailey 21:24, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
- Oh neat. I'm only familiar with that term in relation to sewing. Anchoress 00:22, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
- selvage -- SGBailey 21:24, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
- Chad? Anchoress 21:18, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- It may also be a security issue. Perforated stamps are harder to forge. (BTW the little perforated holes have a techincal name which I used to know 20 years ago but has evaporated from my mind. -- SGBailey 21:10, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- What country are you in? The stamps I buy here in Canada aren't. Anchoress 07:29, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Maybe I should have asked: with precut stamps on wax paper why do the stamps have the ridges? Is it just tradition?
Moscow Kremlin Visitors
editHow many people visit the Moscow Kremlin each year?
- According to The Franklin Institute Online "Although many of the Kremlin's palaces and churches are closed to the public, it is estimated that 60,000 visitors walk the halls and courtyards each day." The opening hours are, according to [3], " The Moscow Kremlin’s territory and museums open daily, except Thursdays, from 10:00 to 17:00. The Armoury Chamber has seances at 10:00, 12:00 , 14:30, 16:30" I make this around 18.7m visitors a year. Hope this helps. --Andy 09:29, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
PDF to SVG
editDoes anyone know of any freeware which can convert PDFs to SVGs? It doesn't have to be an editor, but just able to convert to SVG. Currently the best I can find is an online one here but you have to upload it every time, which can get annoying. - Рэдхот 11:47, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- If you convert to PostScript using pdf2ps, Inkscape can open PostScript files and save as SVG. EdC 14:59, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
thanks
Thanks. - Рэдхот 13:15, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Nescafe
editAnyone know the classical peice played in the new (2 weeks old) ad for NEscafe bold (i think)? I'm in Australia if that matters. I'm just hoping that someone will know it, but if you don't, don't tire yourself looking.
- Can you post a soundfile of you humming it?
Song details
editI've got a song running through my head from about 30 years ago, but I can't remember who sang it. The main refrain goes:
Little does she know that I know that she knows that I know she's cheated on me,
Little does she know that I know that she knows that I know she's two-timin' me.
Anyone remember the group? Thanks. -- Arwel (talk) 13:43, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- I remain amazed that searching with Google isn't the first impulse upon having questions like these; it's faster than typing the questions! Anyway, that's the Kursaal Flyers; that song ("Little does she know") made the British Top 20 in 1976. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:56, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Me too. I am amazed. --Proficient 16:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Me three. Finding lyrics is one of the easiest and most reliable uses for google. Anchoress 19:54, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Most of the time it's very easy to find just the song you're looking for with a simple search, but there are some exceptions, such as songs with common one-word names, like "Jukebox", whose lyrics go
- Juke box, juke box, <something mumbled incoherently in French>, juke box
A no-prize with Miconazole goes out to whoever can find that one for me. Or there's a very nice neo-swing number called "Just another day in L.A.", which I can't find at all, because some other song using that phrase dominates the hits. --Trovatore 21:13, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- I found the latter song by removing "just" from the search and adding "swing"; it turns out to be a song by Indigo Swing, and the lyrics don't seem to be available online. The no-prize for "Jukebox" is still available, though. Adding "swing" doesn't help much in this instance. --Trovatore 21:51, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- WP doesn't seem to like jencomics.com I am the Wikipedia Google Queen! Serge Gainsbourg Le Claqueur de Doigts. Anchoress 22:00, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Type this link into your browser to see the website that Anchoress referenced: tinyurl.com/o9ojn -- C. S. Joiner (talk) 00:33, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
- BTW Google Advanced Search is your friend! I got your jukebox song by googling "juke box juke box" hits without Prince. Anchoress 22:03, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks, Ankie. Your No-Prize is on its way. It's a little darker of a song than I'd have guessed. --Trovatore 22:12, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
I have searched for this with zero result: some Seventies song ends with the narration "But now we must descend, for there is another side to this vision." It may be the same song that contains the line "Freud and Jung are holding hands and saying I'm with you." Does either bit any bells? —Tamfang 04:57, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
- That would be "Solar Boat" from the album The Golden Scarab by one Ray Manzarek, of The Doors fame. --Tagishsimon (talk)
women wearing tight jeans in summer
editIn spring and summer all women wear skimpy clothes, prbably as its hot but I'm noticing more women wear tighter pants than in fall or winter. Why?
Fashion?
- Local trend? --Proficient 16:45, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
I can answer that one with certainty. In the fall and winter a woman's look is more oriented to the cold weather therefore a lot of sweaters, jackets etc that just dont look right with jeans. Therefore a girl tends to wear more slacks, synthetic material pants, rayon, etc, or skirts and boots in the colder months, which aren't as tight as jeans, which are more 'summery' and complement more the tank tops/halter tops that one would waer in the wamer months.
Therein lies the condundrum of why young women would wear tighter pants in summer even though its hotter out. Fashion can't be all about comfort now hehe :)Courtney Akins 17:58, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Baggier jeans would also allow a layer of warm air to remain inside the clothing (depending on how wind resistant the denim is) and thus keep the legs warm. To a certain degree it may be uncomfortable to wear tight clothing in hot weather because of the friction caused by sweat, but by holding the fabric closer to the skin it becomes easier for heat to be released from the body, thus layering is considered most important for protecting the body from the cold.
- Baggier clothing does allow air to circulate, which assists in cooling the body when there is a breeze and the fabric or design of the clothing "breathes" (denim generally doesn't), but if there isn't any wind, and you aren't perspiring, I'm willing to bet that a tight fabric would keep your body cooler than the same fabric in a baggier size. freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ 20:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- I disagree, at least when you're in direct sunlight. Tight-fitting clothes will transfer the sun's radiation to the body more directly. Anchoress 22:13, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, that's true. Seems there's a few more variables that I didn't consider - -; freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ 19:18, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
- I disagree, at least when you're in direct sunlight. Tight-fitting clothes will transfer the sun's radiation to the body more directly. Anchoress 22:13, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Baggier clothing does allow air to circulate, which assists in cooling the body when there is a breeze and the fabric or design of the clothing "breathes" (denim generally doesn't), but if there isn't any wind, and you aren't perspiring, I'm willing to bet that a tight fabric would keep your body cooler than the same fabric in a baggier size. freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ 20:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Yes I told you its not for comfort its just the styles worn in the seasons.Courtney Akins 02:19, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
What happened to the film Brave New World?
editThere was an adaptation of the book Brave New World by Aldous Huxley. It starred Keir Dullea. I have paperback copy of the novel with pictures of the film in it but to date I can't seem to find this film at all. The Wikipedia acrticle on the book does not mention the film but I have pictures to prove one was made, what happened to it or what. Can someone tell me what happened to it and where I might find a copy? Is it on DVD?
- This film? There are several requests at the bottom of that page by people who look for a tape or DVD, but it seems to be unavailable. David Sneek 14:36, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- I can tell you it existed, because I've seen clips of it. According to the Internet movie database (Imdb), there were 7 films made called (sort of) Brave New World. You seem to be thinking of 1980. Here it is! You might be able to get it through ebay. Skittle 14:42, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Eurotunnel
editI am interested what is the direction of movement in the Eurotunnel between France and UK. Is it on the right (as in France) or on the left (as in the UK). Moreover, how is the reversion of lanes performed at junction place if travelling from France to UK? Thanks in advance.--Valkov 17:24, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Only trains run through the Channel Tunnel. Rmhermen 17:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Small specially built vehicles do travel in the center service tunnel, but I think it is only one lane. Nowimnthing 17:53, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
As stated, only trains use the Channel Tunnel. Road vehicles are loaded on and off the trains at Cheriton (Dover) and Frethun (Calais).
- In both Britain and France trains travel on the left hand side of a double tracked line (with a few exceptions). So in the Channel Tunnel trains also usually run on the left (there are two separate rail tunnels and a central service tunnel). The tunnels are bidirectionally signalled and have crossovers at certain points, but wrong line running would only normally occur during an emergency.
- As for the road vehicles in the service tunnel, they travel on the left, but there is no public access.
- Oh and there is a loop at either end of the tunnel around which the Le Shuttle trains go so the driver doesn't have to change ends, and in the British end it is clockwise but the French end there is a grade separated flyover and the trains then go round anti-clockwise so as to equalise the wear on the flanges. — Dunc|☺ 18:37, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- The fact that trains usually travel on the left doesn't seem to be mentioned in our articles on rail transport. In the UK this means that trams/metros that travel on both road and rail don't encounter a problem. Is this an issue in France? And do trains travel on the left universally, ie in every country? (I know that they do in Australia.)--Shantavira 18:44, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- But it's mentioned in Driving on the left or right#Trains. Perhaps we should link there from "our articles on rail transport". Only YOU can prevent mission creep in Wikipedia articles! —Blotwell 19:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Well that's one of the exceptions. French metro trains and trams travel on the right hand side per the rules of the road. The early French lines were built by British engineers. The other French exception is that in Alsace and Lorraine in France where the Germans built the railways when they were part of Germany 1871-1918, and the Germans travel on the right, so at borders there has to be a flyover or crossing on the level (which is a capacity nightmare). As a rule of thumb, Britain and south-western Europe (France, Spain, Italy, Belgium) travel on the left, north-eastern Europe on the right. Also, North America generally travel on the right. Commonwealth countries (lines built again by British engineers) on the left (except for Canada)... There are lists online if you look for them. — Dunc|☺ 19:12, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
why is Darren Campbell mardy?
editWhy is Darren Campbell mardy?
- Because of "certain accusations". [4] David Sneek 20:59, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- What's "mardy"? User:Zoe|(talk) 21:42, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Note that I did not include that link when I asked the question. I would have preferred that the person who added the link had done so in a separate edit, not on top of mine. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:41, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
- I'd have preferred a seasoned veteran such as yourself to have looked it up in Wiktionary before asking here. Have you got a cob on? --Tagishsimon (talk)
- Note that I did not include that link when I asked the question. I would have preferred that the person who added the link had done so in a separate edit, not on top of mine. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:41, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Mardy is like getting a cob on.
What "certain accusations" ?
- What is a "cob", and what does "getting a cob on" mean? JackofOz 22:00, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
A cob is like a mard.
- I now know what "mardy" means, but what is "a mard"? JackofOz 02:06, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
- Mard is an Indian film, but this blogger does a decent job of investigating the etymology of the term [5] Rockpocket 06:23, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
- Hmmm. It doesn't really say what "a mard" is. Best I can tell, mardy means sulky or pouty, and mardy means like getting a cob on, and a cob is like a mard. I can deduce that "mardy means like getting a mard on". This leaves me no closer to the answer. What the heck is a mard? JackofOz 07:15, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
- Mard is an Indian film, but this blogger does a decent job of investigating the etymology of the term [5] Rockpocket 06:23, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
What "certain accusations" ?
Dictionary.com describes it thus cob:
A corncob: corn on the cob. A male swan. A thickset, stocky, short-legged horse. A small lump or mass, as of coal. A mixture of clay and straw used as a building material.
- Whereas Mardy had/has no entries so therfore, i have no fucking idea what this question is about.Anton 10:50, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Now you're being mardy.
Why won't you answer my question?
What "certain accusations" ?
- To be "mard" is to be soft,babyish,it's not a noun,it's an adjective-hotclaws**==(82.138.214.1 15:35, 15 August 2006 (UTC))
- ooh,idea,"mard"="marred" ,spoilt ,does this help?-hotclaws**==(82.138.214.1 15:44, 15 August 2006 (UTC))
Record Conversion
editWhat is the cheapest and easiest way to convert records to cds or any other medium compatible with computers from a turntable.
- If it is a relatively recently made turntable, it ought to have an audio out, which you could run into a soundcard's line in input and use a freeware audio recording program (ask your favorite search engine for suggestions) to record them. You'd likely want to do some normalization, noise reduction, click/pop reduction, etc to try to get the quality up (or perhaps not, if you want as much of the analog sound as possible). If you have an older turntable and a good microphone, you could just mic the turntable, but that is not likely to produce very good results unless the mic is of very high quality (and even then...) digfarenough (talk) 00:25, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Walkoff/hitting for the cycle
editIn light of yesterday's game between the Boston Red Sox and Baltimore Orioles, in which Wily Mo Pena was a single away from hitting for the cycle and almost had the chance to bat in a walkoff situation, I wonder: has anyone ever completed the cycle with a walkoff hit? Thanks a lot. Stilgar135 22:51, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
- Hmm... I am wondering about that too. --Proficient 08:44, 15 August 2006 (UTC)