Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2006 November 23

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November 23

Disney's "Blue Moon" animated music video.

In the late 1980s I recall seeing a small video by Disney on TV which included many animated Cartoon characters singing to the song "Blue moon" in which many of the characters were active together in scenes doing random events and the video either concluded or started with an animated heart beating.

However, Upon searching for information about this videos creation (such as name, creators, release date) I wasn't able to uncover much. If possible, I would like to know when this video was created because I believe it was created much earlier than the 80s. Also if possible, any other background information on the video would be greatly appreciated. I feel this video was a truly amazing piece done by Disney and it Fascinated me as a child and still intrigues me today even though my memory of it is starting to dull and the facts of the video's creation seems to be lost.

• Do you suppose it's the Blue Moon listed in D-TV? --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 03:09, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Real Estate Paradox

I am always hearing real estate agents say, "it's a great time to buy a house," and "it's a great time to sell a house." How can both be the case at the same time?

Cause they make money either way! Seriously, I would think that they like to say both when interest rates are low but home prices are high and likely to go higher. It really is a win-win, in some way, I guess. --Justanother 01:09, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Reminds me of an old Chinese story about a blacksmith who advertised his spears as capable of penetrating any armor, and his armor as capable of stopping any spear. No one bought any of his merchandise, obviously. Not exactly the same situation, but close enough ;) --Dr_Dima.

Cars as living entities

Several years ago I read a humorous passage, in I think a magazine or newspaper, that portrayed cars as alive, and humans as some sort of machine that help the cars survive and function. Anyone know of the original source?

I don't know the passage, but there's the 1974 Australian movie The Cars that Ate Paris. JackofOz 02:01, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

In the 1973 book A Random Walk in Science (compiled by Robert L. Weber, edited by Eric Mendoza, published by The Institute of Physics [UK] and by Crane, Russak & Co. [US], ISBN 0-8448-0362-6), there is an item called "Life on Earth (by a Martian)". As the title suggests, this is a report by a visitor from Mars who comes to Earth and assumes that the cars are intelligent and the humans are parasitic organisms (but not machines). This is by Paul A. Weiss and originally appeared in the Rockefeller Institute Review, volume 2, issue number 6. According to this page it has been "widely reprinted". --Anonymous, 07:24 UTC, November 23.

The National Film Board of Canada released a film called "What On Earth!" in 1966 that's basically the same as above: cars are the main organism, and people are the parasites. It's really quite entertaining. Tony Fox (arf!) 17:28, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

scene on porn movie

There is a porn movie that shows a woman has 2 dicks in the ass and 2 in the pussy at the same time, so 4 guys at the same time, or this is impossible to do???

Where would everyone stand?!? --Kurt Shaped Box 02:16, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

It's probably possible, I just don't know why anyone would want to do it. --Wooty Woot? contribs 02:36, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I heard about the DVDA, but our article on the subject (Wonderful Wikipedia!) states it's likely impossible... 惑乱 分からん 03:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

My first reaction to this question was revultion, then i scratched my chin and thought 'what if you used amputees?' Vespine 04:03, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I should think that if there is a pr0n movie that shows it, it's possible. I just can't imagine who would be enjoying themselves in such an awkward position. -THB 04:38, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the OP means it's rumoured that a Pr0n movie shows it. Vespine 05:46, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I don't see any pictures of such a position on the internet. I have seen pictures of double anal + vaginal and double vaginal + anal so I am quite sure that if it were reasonably possible, there would be pictures and it would be the biggest event in the porn industry and we would have heard about it. I just can't imagine exactly how to get that fourth guy in there. -THB 08:47, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

This mite be a creation of an idle sick mind. Women of the west have become objects of sexual gratification. Thats what the porn movies depict not feminity but repulsive content which eludes the mind of a sick man.

As much as I don't disagree with the above, I'd rather live in that world then the world where someone gets to decide for me which 'questionable' websites should be blocked... And sign your posts! Have the courage to back your conviction. ;) Vespine 21:44, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Please ignore Kj, this is blatant trolling. This is not the place for an argument. --Wooty Woot? contribs 09:56, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention, assuming all parties involved were straight, it would be the woman using the men for sexual gratification and not the other way around! -- Chuq 02:10, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

That mite be your opinion. The rationale to decide in the context of sex is unlimited. Every individual will undoubtedly support at any age an irresponsible career in porn industry. Blocking such websites does add a lot of benefits, it doesnt block the mind with that sort of dirt. Freedom is simply abused. Kjvenus 09:45, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Wow this has gotten off subject, but I'll stir the pot a little by saying that taking away crtain freedoms so that the can't be abused leads down a far darker road then keeping them. Also, how does one define what is and isn't an abuse of freedoms in the first place? Anyway, my opinionis that it is possible if one of the men has good hip and back flexibility. -- THL^CCD 10:32, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Help! what is this song called

go to this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i96c75rbti8 watch the video

can you name that song? it was on commercials for GE around 2000

P.S. its not a work safe video sorry Anchoress

Dood, you should warn people that it isn't a worksafe video. I vaguely recognise it, I think the best thing would be to email the creator of the video, or post a comment and ask for the info. Anchoress 02:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

ATC Around the World see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_yUpeX3VpI --71.211.191.122 04:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

science fair

Sigh, now I have to do a science fair project on decision making instead. How can I 'measure' the decision making process? Survey? Test? Seems so simple yet so vague.

Read The Dice Man and Schrödinger's Kittens maybe? Sorry, bad joke. Start with decision making, decision model, decision analysis, decision theory :) Hope that helps. Vespine 04:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

You could replicate the experiment described in Framing (economics), which is related to loss aversion, or one revealing some other cognitive bias in decision making.  --Lambiam^Talk 11:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

NAFTA' Preamble

what is the content of NAFTA's Preamble? What is the content of United Nation preamble?202.95.150.174 03:29, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

NAFTA preamble

Preamble to the United Nations Charter

-- Jim Douglas ^(talk) _(contribs) 03:37, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

If Wikipedia were printed

15th edition (with 2 index volumes and 2002 year book)

If wikipedia were a printed, bound, traditional encyclopedia, how many volumes would it have? And how much shelf space would it take up? And how much would it cost to buy? Lady Nemisis 04:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, for starters, it's a free encyclopedia... —EdGl 05:14, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Currently according to wiki stats there are almost a million and a half articles in wikipedia. Britannica's 23 volume current edition has about 75,000 articles. Mind you, Britannica wouldn't have pages about individual nokia phone models and episodes of Myth Busters so I don't know if you can really compare the 2. But a guess based purely on those figures would mean wikipedia would take about twenty times the space or 400 of those Britannica volumes. Of course that is jsut a wild guess. Vespine 05:38, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Isn't it common for WP articles to be larger than Britannica ones too? - Mgm|^(talk) 12:43, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps we are talking here about something that might be close to resembling the Library of Babel, or the Book of Sand? Clio the Muse 06:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

About the price. The content may be free, but one still has to print and distribute the books. For comparison, paperbacks of books by long-dead authors cost only a few euro. But those are without photos. One might need a few thousand paperbacks for Wikipedia. Then again, printing without the photos in large volume and selling through the Internet without advertising costs (only for those really interrested) might make a few hundred euro a likely price. That said, printing Wikipedia will only become an interresting option to enough people when it covers all important areas sufficiently and that is not the case yet. But a print of just the technical articles might be interresting to some, because such subjects are covered fairly well. DirkvdM 07:18, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

So I don't think you'll be able to make a profit out of us by printing Wikipedia either.--Shantavira 14:30, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah wot about a WikiTechnopedia!. Also we could publish a 'Best of the RD Best Q & A' 8-)--Light current 17:47, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Who said anything about making a profit? DirkvdM 06:49, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

• /me makes a shameless plug for the Version 1.0 Editorial Team... Titoxd^(?!?) 08:07, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Identify banking institution by type of safe deposit box key

greetings, trying to assist estate "clean up". found one safe (safety) deposit box key in deceased's possesions. so far there is no indication of the institution, no bill for the box rental, no notice of box rental fee waiver, etc.

we have been seeking a visual chart of keys used for safe deposit boxes with info on manufacturer that might be used to initiate inquiries with local banking institutions as to which banks use X company's safe deposit boxes. it is not that bad running in and out of bank branches, but finding the correct person to address the explanation and inquiry to is not fun.

decedant was resident of marin county, california USA 94901.

thank you for any suggestions or guidance in this matter.

respectfully submitted, eric 69.107.54.77 08:01, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Best bet would be to contact the deposit box manufacturers. There must not be that many of them. Alternatively, contact the people who make the keys for the bank.

It is possible that the deceased was holding the key for someone else. It is very surprising that there are no bills or mention in the will. It could be an old key that was lost and the deceased stopped renting the box. Although I'm sure you already thought of this, it is more likely that they rented a box at an institution with which they already had a relationship that at one they did not.

Something else you might do (unrelated) is contact the state department responsible for missing property. Every state has one. Funds from unclaimed bank accounts, etc. go there. Good luck. -THB 08:43, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

thank you THB, eric 69.107.95.134 08:08, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Encyclopedia Dramatica

Hello viteh,

As I was looking online for other encyclopedias, I found this one 'encyclopedia dramatica'. And it appears to be a parody of other serious sites (including wikipedia) and in several of it's articles it refeers in a pejorative way about wikipedia. My question is: Why do you have a deleted/protected article about said encyclopedia and what's the connection between wikipedia and dramatica.

Thank you, Santiago.

Here's the VFD: Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Encyclopedia Dramatica. -THB 08:38, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Encyclopedia Dramatica is not a parody, it is some sort of internet culture wiki with few to no rules. The Wikipedia parody is called Uncyclopedia. Both of these websites use the MediaWiki software, the same used by Wikipedia. The reason ED's article was blocked is probably because 90% of the edits were vandalism coming from ED's users. ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇↯ 08:42, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Officially it was deleted because the material in it wasn't verifiable in published sources, which is true, although some maintain that the deletion was at least party due to the various controversies and "drama" surrounding the article, subsequent to some harassment of a Wikipedian via an article at ED. They make fun of Wikipedia and Wikipedians, you know, sometimes by name, and generally in ways that many consider offensive if not libelous. There were blocks and bans and vandalism and namecalling and so forth, and ArbCom eventually ruled that ED is deemed an attack site and that links to it are not welcome here. During all this, it was deemed necessary to protect the deleted page, to prevent re-creation, and later its talk page, due to trolling. The most recent discussion, in its final state before closing, can be found here. I hope that helps. -GTBacchus^(talk) 10:10, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Wondering how one might get into electronics.

I'm a decent hacker, but I've always wondered about the other side. Resistors, capacitors, that sort of thing. Specifically, I want to know about RFIDs and imaging chips, like the kind they have in digital cameras (I want to make my own infrared camera).

How might I go about learning more about these sorts of things? What would I need to work with them? -- Abnerian 10:12, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. You might find the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers a good starting point for your research into that area; I'm sure browsing through that information can at least point you in the right direction for more information. Tony Fox (arf!) 17:18, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I personally think, buy your self a half decent soldering iron and get straight into a couple of hobby kits. The site I linked is Australian, but if you are not in Australia I'm sure you can find something similar where you live. There are hundreds of different projects you can get. They come in all varying skill levels and even specifically 'educational' ones, find some that interest you and get your hands dirty, so to speak. I personally think getting straight into the practical side of things is the best way to learn. Vespine 22:56, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Here you go, found one you might be specifically interested in. RFID Kit. Vespine 23:15, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

With the increase in miniaturization, the fact that more and more entire subsystems are now packaged on single (and very small) chips, and the astonishingly dropping price of many fully-assembled electronic devices, you do need to realize that it's becoming harder and harder for a hobbyist to construct anything of merit these days. This is considered to be a serious problem in introducing new folks into the field of electronics, and there's a fair amount of semi-official hand-wringing going on over exactly this issue.

Atlant 17:58, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Willy On Wheels

I hear references to to "Willy on Wheels" (apparently a vandal) all the time? I checked User:Willy on Wheels and found a permanantley blocked user.who is this person? Is he very important to Wikipedia history? Is this all some giant inside joke that I am unaware of? By the way, this might now be the right pace to ask this, but I could not find anywhere else. NauticaShades 11:03, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Willy on Wheels was a chronic pagemove vandal who was active for a long time, and developed a certain notoriety. He had an extremely long list of sockpuppets, I guess, before WP:DENY came along and we took down the page where they used to keep track of them all - too much like keeping a trophy case for him, we figured. I don't get the impression there's much Willy on Wheels vandalism anymore, though I can't say I really keep up with the latest in vandalism. -GTBacchus^(talk) 11:23, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

This was the most prolific vandal ever, specializing in page move vandalism and resurfacing when blocked through many sockpuppet accounts. For a mention, see Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2005-08-29/Vandals_resurface.  --Lambiam^Talk 11:22, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

• In a way he was important to Wikipedia history. Because of his vandalism, technology to undo pagemoves more quickly was developed and I think a number of other vandalism tools were created because of his actions. - Mgm|^(talk) 12:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

He deserves a barnstar for that.

Collecting information without any trace of identity?

I thought that there could be some list of passwords people use, just so that people could see how most people's passwords look like, if they are curious. The problem is that the collecting of the passwords should destroy all traces of the people's identities, so that the passwords would be useless to the readers of the list, and no one's privacy would actually be compromised. The list collector, and the readers, not knowing which passwords belong to whom is not enough - the people themselves who give their passwords must have complete certainty no other person is going to know that the passwords they give belong to them. This would exclude sending a computer form (IP addresses could be traced), and writing them on pieces of paper (handwriting could be recognised). Is there any real foolproof way? JIP | Talk 11:09, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I know a bit about how most people choose passwords, and it appears to me that most people will choose a dictionary word (or a sports team, keep a sports team wordlist handy), and a number at the end of it, like "steelers7", or "flourish9". Read Stealing The Network: How To Own the Box. -- Abnerian 11:22, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

To answer the question, there could be a computer somewhere where people could physically come and enter their passwords, anonymously. I doubt there could be any way to trace them afterwards, if the software was developed so that it would randomize the order of the entered passwords in its memory. Also you could let people arrange alphabet magnets on a blackboard, and let only one person in at a time... like Magnetic Poetry but with letters instead of words. –mysid☎ 11:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

That would probably work. An idea I this gave me goes as follows: One person at a time walks into a room and arranges alphabet magnets on a blackboard to show his/her password. The person leaves, the password is photographed by an automated camera, and the blackboard is magnetised in the same polarity as the magnets, so all the magnets fall off. Then the next person comes in and does the same. After all people have been to the room, all the photographs are printed, and the printed pictures are shuffled, by someone who has never previously met the people, in front of the people. They are then given to someone, who also has never previously met the people, who types the passwords up in a computer. Should this be secure enough? JIP | Talk 12:28, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good – provided the camera won't take a picture before the person has left, in which case it would become horribly insecure. :) –mysid☎ 12:39, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, if we can assume that the person giving his/her password is always alone in the room, we can skip all the fuss with arranging magnets and photographing them. Just put a computer terminal there and have it always logged in as the same user. The people who come in there only have to enter their password, they never enter their name or any other ID anywhere. That would be enough to detach the passwords from other ID information. JIP | Talk 23:19, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

• Wouldn't that make cracking accounts a piece of cake? Just run the list against a variety of websites and wait for a hit. - Mgm|^(talk) 12:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
  • You've got a point there, but I'd guess that there are several ways to make crackers' jobs harder: Simply make the list so long that it will be less feasible to run the entire list against website. Most authentication systems need both a username and a password, and a password alone is next to useless. (Totally detaching the passwords from the usernames was the whole point of this question.) Or you could ensure that the passwords are only for systems that the average user/reader/consumer wouldn't even have enough access to get a log-in prompt. JIP | Talk 13:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I have no idea why anyone would willingly contribute to such a list, particularly as the prime use of it would be to illegally hack someone, potentially the person who contributed in the first place. --Dweller 15:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

you could collect former passwords that people tell you after they stop using it. However, selection bias will be considerable, even without considering spoofing issues. It may be more practicable for some large institution to organize such a study, that is, by collecting anonymized passwords as people enter then. The "foolproof" bit is in looking at the code and making sure that all data beyond the password itself is, in fact, not stored anywhere, and then compiling and installing that code manually. dab (ᛏ) 15:42, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't this be moved over to the Computing Desk, where there might be people who know what they are talking about? Password dictionaries are used all the time for Linux and Unix systems, to check security. They actually check against the encrypted hash, and come up with the hits. There are tons on papers on this. --Zeizmic 15:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

This question is more about the practical details of reassuring people that their identity will never be published to anyone, and less about passwords on any actual computer systems. JIP | Talk 23:19, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

You people are being way too confident that the average user cares about their password being known - [1] --Mnemeson 23:47, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Or you could just ask people who work on an IT helpdesk. Even though (in most instances) they aren't supposed to tell you their password, people still do! -- Chuq 02:44, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Here's a big list of common passwords, which is what it sounds like you're looking for: link - Rainwarrior 20:10, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Or maybe you're just wondering about collection methods. Nevermind. (It's still and interesting link though.) - Rainwarrior 20:12, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

advertising slogans

—15:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)15:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)15:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)15:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)15:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)88.106.3.221N B warren I am trying to find the answer to this question -what have you run out of when you need to "have a word with the wife".I could not find answer on Wikiquote.Can you help please?

Well it could be almost amything, depending on what "the wife" in question supplies you with. Clean underwear perhaps? (If you're lucky.) --Shantavira 18:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Nuptials?AMX 19:53, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Country Life butter in the UK, I believe. Part of the jingle went "If you haven't any in have a word with the wife, and spread it on your toast in the morning" or something very similar Situationist 00:24, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Corned beef tins

Why is corned beef packed in tapered rectangular tins? I have never seen any other products in such tins, or corned beef in a different shaped tin.88.106.81.166 16:52, 23 November 2006 (UTC)Taffy

Sardines also come in similar shape tins, though no idea why. Spam also comes in the same shape tin. Potentially the reasoning could be (for Spam and Corned Beef) a desire to make the product look like it is from a terrine dish. ny156uk 17:43, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I would agree, the can mimics the traditional loaf or terrine. The meat is cooked in the tin. -THB 17:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I always assumed it was necessary in order to get the solid lump of meat out in one piece. Getting it out of a straight-sided tin without chopping it up would be pretty difficult. DJ Clayworth 18:03, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I think that's why the traditional terrine dish is shaped that way. The tin mimics the dish. -THB 18:10, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I originally thought it was so that you can slide it out of the tin in once peice, however as soon as I thought about it I rememebered what an effort it is to do this so now I've confused me self.AMX 19:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Really? I've never had problems pulling it out in one piece. Of course, once done, I usually mash it up into some potatoes or something, but it's always come out easily in one hunk. Maybe it's warmer where you live than where I do... I've noticed it gets mushy rather quickly as the temperature increases in the pan. - Rainwarrior 06:40, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Well its just that you have to lever it out a little way without it splitting and stick a knife or somthing in and lever a little more and so on and so on, easyer said than done.

Compared with other meat products which come in plastic tray type packages, which raises another Q; why is it that on all "easy-open" packets do they NEVER pack the knife which makes it easy-open?AMX 19:12, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Seriously? I just stick a spoon in it and pull slowly. Comes right out with a satisfying thhhhhhhhhplop. - Rainwarrior 20:08, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

My editing of articles

If you Wikipedians want to change my edits of the article about Magneto (band), you can do it.

That comment came from 12.18.90.119 - who apparently hasn't got any other edits. Does anyone understand this?martianlostinspace 17:12, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps either the edits were done under another name/adddress or they weren't saved. -THB 17:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

There are a couple edits there done by 12.18.90.101, which is probably the same person. --Maelwys 18:13, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Anyway, I'm happy he allows us to change his edits. If he'd forbidden us to, I'd be worried... ;) 惑乱 分からん 18:01, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I just did. Most of the wikilinks are pointless, btw.--Shantavira 18:24, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Architecure blueprints

Does anyone know of a website which features blueprints of famous buildings old or new? Keria 17:42, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

By blueprints, do you mean floorplans, elevations, sections, etc., or pics of blueprints? -THB 17:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

That would have to be floorplans and elevations of remarkable buildings or buildings of famous architects. Keria 17:51, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

www.greatbuildings.com has some but in general it's best to search for a particular building or architect. A lot of the plans online are from student projects. There are few drawings of famous buildings online from the original architect unless the firm still exists and the plans are on the architect's website. For instance, Venturi Scott Brown has plans on their website. -THB 18:07, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

At the moment I'm looking in particular for buildings by Frank Lloyd Wright (i.e. some of his houses around 1910). Thank you very much for the references THB. Keria 18:36, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

So here's a list of his buildings. Google "(the name of the building) floor plan", but not in quotes, and you can also add "FLW" if necessary. Google knows who FLW is. -THB 04:11, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Hurray! http://www.valubuild.com/resources.htm has a list of links to floor plans. Keria 13:57, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

paycheck for members of parliament

are memberds of parliament in europe payed just congressman and representives here in the united states.

If you mean "Are Members of the European Parliament paid as much as members of Congress or the House of Representives", then occasionally. Italian MEPs are very well paid, at $170,000 per year, $5,000 more than the average congressman/senator, while Spanish MEPs get only $40,000 per year. It depends on the nation that sends them, as they are the ones who foot the bills for the paychecks! [2] Laïka 20:17, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

This site gives a list of salaries of europarlemantarians (?) per nationality per month. Hungarians only get less than 10 000 euro per year. It also says that for the time being salaries won't be made uniform. And while I'm on that site, it also says Bush gets a salary of 400 000 euro per year (plus expenses and free (white) housing). He's got Clinton to thank for that, who doubled the president's salary. That's about triple the Dutch PM's salary (130 000 euro). The salary of a Dutch minister is about 115 000 euro. A commission proposed to raise that to 150 000, to keep up with salaries for comparable functions on the labour market. That would then be taken as the 'normsalary', with the PM getting 110%, a state secretary (sort of a lower rank minister) 90%, a mayor 85% and an MP 55%. City council members only get 20%, but then that's not a full time job. Here's the complete table, with more salaries, but it's in Dutch and it's a pdf. DirkvdM 08:18, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Fuels of the world

For my homework: What fuels are used in: France, A country in Africa (Uganda for instance), A country in Asia (e.g. India).

Thanks

Why don't you have a look at, say Economy of France, where you'll discover that the last red-blooded patriotic American who visited Wikipedia has explained that France gets its electricity by tapping the motion of waving white flags... ;) (the last part is a joke, but the article link isn't). Repeat the process for the other two countries to get a starting point. --Robert Merkel 20:17, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. THe question is: Is that a racist comment, or a statement of fact?--Light current 23:10, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Anti-French sentiment & all that "freedom fries" B.S. makes me sick to my stomach. Those people forget that without Gilbert du Motier, marquis de La Fayette, the Revolutionary War would be a small footnote in history called "A slight rebellion in the American colonies". Robert Merkel was joking but a lot of people are not when they say things like that. And they use a lot of nuclear power in France. That's their primary source of electricity by far. -THB 04:16, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Racist? Now if he would have been waving a black flag ... sorry, being a simple Dutchman I don't get any of this. DirkvdM 08:22, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

There's a crude stereotype in the States about the French being 'Cheese eating surrender monkeys' - jokes like 'How many Frenchmen does it take to fight a battle? Nobody knows, it's never been tried'. Therefore had the suggestion that French power was generated by waving of white flags (i.e. perpetual surrendering) been genuine, that suggestion would have been motivated by prejudice against the French (I'm sure, however, it was just a joke). Americans like to forget that on the bottom of the Statue of Liberty is a stamp, 'Fabriquee en France' because in their posturing, independence, and arrogance, France and America remind each other far too much of themselves, which at times makes them the greatest of friends, and at others, like now, the most antagonistic of relations --Mnemeson 08:42, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

To be fair, a quick Google search for "French military victories" does back up that stereotype. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 18:35, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Apart from the stupidity of this "French are losers"-hype, what concerned me the most is the approach that was used here! It's so "macho-style". There was some sort of "get real guys" or "just do it" way of thinking in those day prior to the invasion of Iraq.

And it IS stupid, because you can make lists of USA failures and retreats just as well (surrendering during 1812 war, letting Washington be burned down, Bay of Pigs, Korean War ending in a draw, Vietnam war ending in a total humiliation, running away from Beirut,...)

The people who make jokes about the French fighting battles forget that history of mankind didn't start at World War II. France must have been involved, both successfully and otherwise, in lots of external and internal conflicts when the USA was still a glimpse of someone's wild imagination. JIP | Talk 17:12, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Profile picture

What exactly is this user's profile picture of? Any help is much appreciated. 81.131.67.205 21:21, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

A part of and old phone handset ? -- DLL ^{.. T} 22:14, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

It looks kind of like the inside of an office-sized metal coffee machine, if you take the metal stem out. - Rainwarrior 22:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Like, the silver cylinder type (something like this: [3]), usually the metal pot has ridges and a couple of holes in the middle of the bottom. There's also usually some sort of metal stem in the middle above the holes, but that can be removed. - Rainwarrior 22:38, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

The part of the telephone where you listen from. The holes are just made illuminated yellow.

How do people write books?

Could somebody give a walkthrough of the process involved in writing a book? I mean, once a person has an idea for a book and wants to write it, what do they do from that point up until the book is available to buy in bookstores?--216.164.249.175 21:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Just as a point of clarification, I am not asking about taking an idea and fleshing it out, but rather I am asking about what software they use to write it, when they go to a publisher, what that entails, etc.--216.164.249.175 21:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Software shouldn't matter, as long as it manages the most common file formats, such as *.doc, *.rtf, *.pdf etc. But I think scripts generally are read by editors as printed papers. 惑乱 分からん 22:11, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

The hard thing about being a novelist often isn't writing the book, but getting someone to read it. Particularly, getting someone to publish it. You can mail copies to every literary agent and publisher and editor you can, but you're still going to be very lucky to get anyone to read it (they all get so many, and most are so bad, that they probably read the synopsis or the first page at best). So a lot of authors start out writing short stories and magazine articles and even letters to Penthouse (they're not really written by horny housewives, you know). Only once they've established something of a name for themselves will editors bother to read their novels (and writing short-form works does wonders for your writing skills - any idiot can write a massive meandering tome). Once they're established some authors (particularly genre authors) stop writing novels on spec altogether, and instead write a treatment (just a few pages summarising the novel) and only write the novel if a publisher agrees to publish it - this overcomes the noted fickleness and herd mentality of the popular publishing sector ("You've spent ten years writing the best ever dragon book? It's great, but we're not doing hard fantasy this year; do you have anything with robots?"). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:36, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

• Most authors sit down and do some planning. Write down the information they know about their plot and character and order their notes so it makes sense as a cohesive story. Then they write it (takes very long), then they reread, edit, reread and edit a few times before sending it out. If you want to know more about the writing process, you should hang around writer's sites. Absolutewrite.com, CritiqueCircle.com and places like MissSnark.Blogspot.com and the links she has listed in her blog. Good luck!- Mgm|^(talk) 23:57, 23

November 2006 (UTC)

How do people write books? With blood, sweat, toil and tears. Clio the Muse 02:00, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

And misquotes? :–) --Anonymous and cheeky, 02:19 UTC, Nov. 24.

That's a quotation? How wonderful! But on this occasion a personal path is described. I always sweat after I bleed and before I toil; then come the tears. The blank page brings on all the horrors! Clio the Muse 02:28, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

The vast majority of writers use Microsoft Word because it is the most common word-processing software. -THB 03:32, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I think Neal Stephenson used to use Emacs.

If you are a professional writer — i.e., if someone else is getting paid to worry about how your words are formatted and printed — emacs outshines all other editing software in approximately the same way that the noonday sun does the stars. It is not just bigger and brighter; it simply makes everything else vanish.

--Kjoonlee 14:57, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

To get some idea of the publishing process, read the article Publishing and follow the links. You should decide whether you want to be represented by a literary agent, and in what stage of the process. If you decide to approach the publishers yourself, spend some time researching which publishers publish comparable works. Don't try to sell a hard science fiction story to a publisher specializing in romance novels. And perhaps you may want to go for self-publishing. Unless you extraordinary demands, any word-processing software will do. Many authors actually prefer not to bother with "desktop publishing" frills like styles for headings, and use underlining to indicate text that must be typeset in italics. Readers will go for content, not appearance. Finally, see also Author.  --Lambiam^Talk 05:53, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

If you've got some money you could order a batch of prints (very cheap in India) and start selling them yourself. A modern approach might be to put the book on the Internet so people can read it there. But most people prefer reading from a paper book (depending on what type of book we're talking about), so they might be interrested in buying that from you (by mail). That will be much cheaper than people prinitng it themselves, especially if you make it cheap prints. DirkvdM 08:29, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

About MP3 Wii

My brother is wondering if there is any way an Ipod or MP3 Player can interact directly with a Wii via the USB port, like if you would be able to download MP3s on to the Wii from a MP3 player the same way as with a SD card. Talk|BeefJeaunt 22:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so, Wii is not really being pushed as a media centre, it's a game console. Vespine 22:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Can't do it currently. From what I understand, you can't even listen to MP3s off an SD card right now unless using them as background music in a photo slideshow, or in Excite Truck (the only game supporting that right now). -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 02:17, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

How would they be allowed to do this anyway? Nintendo specialises in games and so probably isn't allowed to poke about with MP3s. Sony can, obviously, and Microsoft could throw their considerable weight around if they wanted. Vitriol 03:42, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Err, what? How would they not be allowed? What law prevents video game companies from selling audio players? -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 03:44, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I was just thinking Nintendo wouldn't bother making MP3 players etc. (because they haven't up until now and I think I've heard Nintendo want to continue specialising in games, but I can't give a source) and the Wii wants to specialise in games, I think, so they'd have to license technology and things and that's a hassle. I'm not sure how much of my opinions are based on fact, or propaganda, or the opinions of people with about as much knowledge and fanboyism as myself but don't check themselves, but when I read the original question it made me feel bad, because I don't think Ninty would do that. Vitriol 04:39, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Wait, in that paragraph I implied that I check myself, which is obviously wrong. Vitriol 04:40, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Salary of US President

What is the annual salary of the President of the USA (before and after benefits)? How does this compare with a US military 4-star General? Or a Chief of Staff? Thanks. Jamesino 23:08, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I could find salary for the President of the USA in 2001 of $400,000 (plus $50,000 non-taxable expenses), the chief justice of the supreme court got $199,200 that same year. Presidents are usually paid quite 'poorly' in comparison to comparable positions in the business world. The reasons for this are considered to be many faceted:

• Publicity wise it looks bad if the President is talking about taxation but is on an income of £20m a year
• The position should not be sought for its wage, and thus the wage remains low comparable to others, because the position should be sought for honourable reasons
• The earnings post-presidency are so high that there is little reason to pay hugely during the presidency

The reasoning is my opinion, but i'm pretty sure that most of it is commonly acknowledge by the political arena.

Oh and apparently Washington and JFK both refused their salaries. ny156uk 23:28, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Another reason to keep the salary low is that it should be "representative" of the electorate, which I would take to mean equal to the median worker's salary. Of course, it's currently some 20 times that, but we can always hope that will be fixed some day. One reason for a high salary is to reduce the temptation for the elected to use their positions to solicit bribes, etc. (This way they can focus all their energies on using their position to obtain sexual favors.) :-) StuRat 09:06, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah ok, Thanks =) Jamesino 01:12, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, the vast majority of presidents are very wealthy to begin with and the U.S. president will likely never be paid in pounds. Looks like the top monthly base pay for a commissioned officer with years & years of expereince is $16,795.50. -THB

I already answered this at 'paycheck for members of parliament' a few threads up. Some other info there too. DirkvdM 08:33, 24 November 2006 (UTC)