Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 October 9

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October 9

Dopamine during exercise

Does one's brain produce an increased amount of dopamines, endorphins and other "pleasure" chemicals during painful exercise such as a rapid hill-climb on a bike or a 400-m sprint? Acceptable 00:18, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't it depend on how a specific person reacts to such activities? Some love riding bikes or cars fast, others'd be scared out of their wits by it. --Ouro (blah blah) 08:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The article on endorphin has a section on the 'runner's high', which has been claimed to be endorphin-induced. While the body does seem to release endorphins during intense work-outs, it seems that anandamide (also produced by the body) is responsible for the high. People can certainly get addicted to exercise, that may have a biochemical cause. risk 00:26, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

loans and business

I was currently talking to my friend who is an loan officer, and he was telling me about this new program where the government is offering home loans. I currently live in california where the loan bussiness was booming until about last year or so due to so many defaults on sub-prime loans and foreclosers to say the least. In a resault of that many lenders have been bankrupt or just out of bussiness including some banks as well. Now back to my friend the information he got was from a real estate broker, the broker explianed he can loan any body money reguardless of their credit even dead loans. I just want to know if the programs really excist and how would I be able to be the middle man for such a great program. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrianocarlino (talk • contribs) 00:58, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Nope, probably not. If there was such a program, why are we in the mess we are now? Splintercellguy 01:55, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Such a program would be a mess. —Tamfang 17:03, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

How do I include a square root sign in a Word document?

I'm doing A Maths formula notes. --166.121.36.10 02:23, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Go to "insert" (next to "file", "edit", "view", etc.), "symbol" and scroll down a ways, or click the menu in the upper right and go to "mathematical operators." --Ybbor^Talk 02:38, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

If you have to include more complicated mathematics, there is usually a program called Microsoft Equation Editor hidden away in your Microsoft Office folder. --24.147.86.187 05:11, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that will work for very simple stuff. If you have to make documents containing mathematical symbols on a regular basis, though, you'd better learn LaTeX. Be warned that you'll need a pretty significant time investment up front, but in the long run there's no contest -- a lot of the stuff you want to do would drive you nuts if you had to use Equation Editor, and I'm not even sure it could do them at all. --Trovatore 06:14, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Concur. The Equation Editor is basically no good/very difficult to use properly if you need to include complex formulas in your documents, and it's true it doesn't allow much freedom if you need to include something that's not too common. Cheers, Ouro (blah blah) 09:19, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Right, but I generally assume that if someone doesn't know about LaTeX then they probably don't really need to use it. Usually if you need to represent complex equations someone has clued you in to it already and what it is good for (since it is basically indespensible for such things). For simple things, Equation Editor can get the job done, though it is a pain in the neck. --24.147.86.187 14:04, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Then again, it's nice to know there are alternatives out there. Someone else reading this thread (other than the OP, such as a mathematical genius bereft of the benefit of formal education, with access to nothing else besides Wikipedia) may find the information useful. dr.ef.tymac 20:38, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Loretta Claiborne

What kind of "mental retardation" is Loretta Claiborne supposed to have? It says in her article here:

She holds a black belt in karate, communicates in four languages, including sign language, and holds honorary doctorate degrees from Quinnipiac College and Villanova University, making her the first person with mental retardation known to receive such honors, according to the Special Olympics organization.

Okay, if a person can do all that, they are NOT retarded. --124.254.77.148 06:12, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I can't answer the specific question, but just to clarify a few points concerning the quoted passage:

• Grading to black belt in karate requires dedication, fitness and physical co-ordination, but I would not rank it as an intellectual challenge. Memorising the kata is largely muscle memory, I believe.
• "Communicating" in four languages could mean any level of competence from a few basic words upwards. The sign language makaton is sometimes taught to people with learning difficulties, to facilitate functional communication.
• An honorary degree can be awarded to recognise a person's achievements in any field. You do not have to pass exams to be awarded an honorary degree.

Without wishing to minimise Loretta's achievements, it is certainly possible for a person with mild learning difficulties to do each of the things mentioned. Gandalf61 09:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps this is a cultural thing, but I'm extremely uncomfortable with the term "mental retardation". --Dweller 12:29, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

There is a lot of debate still over whether it should be used as a term, or whether something like "developmentally disabled" should be used instead (see Mental_retardation#Alternative_terms). Personally I think the terms indicate somewhat different things, and think that the word "retardation" has unfortunately taken on a negative association due to playground antics but that any term eventually would. "Mental retardation" was a term initially set up to be a neutral assignment, as opposed to the older terms like "feeble-minded" and "moron", but unsurprisingly it itself has shifted in its neutrality. It's not an easy call to make; there isn't an obvious replacement word that conveys specifically the sort of cognitive deficiencies that "mental retardation" does without also lumping it in with things like dyslexia, which is very different. (As someone who occasionally works on mental health related issues, I have struggled with the terminology acutely, in part because I also work on historical issues relating to it, where "mentally retarded" is already a departure from what the historical actors were saying, but is far more specific than the other terms.) Now, I'm aware that the term "retardation" is normative (it assumes there is a standard ability), but frankly I think that dressing up our meaning in increasingly meaningless words is not a great approach to things, as long as they are explicitly and overtly meant to be offensive... --24.147.86.187 14:25, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

(Interesting?) aside; the phenomenon you describe whereby newly-coined "neutral" terms become tainted by the same problems of the terms they were created to replace is called the euphemism treadmill. FiggyBee 14:40, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The term intellectual disability seems to becoming more common. Now here's a question: why does our article on intellectual disability redirect to Developmental disability, while Mental retardation is a separate article? Shouldn't those latter two be merged? - Eron ^Talk 14:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The catch-all in the UK seems to be "learning disabled", which is gentler. I suspect I was right and there are cultural differences. I quite like EronMain's "intellectual disability". What term/s do the Special Olympics use? --Dweller 14:35, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The continual search for ever more politically correct "non-negative" names for what is without doubt a negative condition is truly fruitless - and each consecutive renaming is less meaningful. Sadly, negative terms have to be used for negative conditions. Mental Retardation is a perfectly accurate description. It's a problem of the mind - a 'mental' problem - and 'retardation' means slowing or being held back...which is precisely what's going on here. So, let's just use the right term and not end up with "differently mind capable" or some such nonsense. SteveBaker 14:42, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong in avoiding offence. There are plenty of colourful terms that in the past would have been used in encylopedias that would not have raised eyebrows, that today no rational good faith editor would use, particularly referring to peoples' ethnicity, colour, religion and, yes, disability. --Dweller 14:45, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

But is there any evidence that the afflicted here are offended by the term? In my experience it is never the afflicted in this case who give a damn what the label is—it is instead the self-appointed representatives who apparently care. It's also an odd case, where the "offense" comes not from applying the term to those who are supposed to be designated by it, but to those who are not, which then made it a term of stigma, which then went back against the way it was originally applied. (Ditto "moron", whereas "feeble-minded", by contrast, is a more obviously offensive and dismissive, non-clinical sounding term.) Maybe I sound in particular irritated by this, but I don't really see this as being the same thing as calling someone African-American or Black instead of Negro, which is a change in terminology lobbied for by the so-labeled group itself. I see this as somewhat misguided, in the same way that people decided that "Native American" was somehow less offensive than "Indian" (both are labels given by and in reference to the colonizers), and when used correctly I don't think the term "mental retardation" is offensive or non-clinical, and has decided advantages over all of the proposed alternatives. --24.147.86.187 15:29, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Special Olympics uses intellectual disability, as do the International Paralympic Committee and other sports organizations working with athletes with a disability. It works quite nicely in parallel with the term physical disability. - Eron ^Talk 14:50, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

They would seem to be useful precedents, working in international settings too. --Dweller 14:56, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Note again that "learning disabled" can mean a whole lot of things; if I were dyslexic I would not want to be in the same category as the severely mentally retarded. Saying "severely learning disabled" doesn't really indicate exactly what is going on. Anyway, that's my objection, really — the replacement terms are terribly inspecific. I wouldn't mind a new euphemism coming along, but I'd want it to be as specific as the old one. Ditto "intellectually disabled", which sounds like it can describe a number of athletes I have taught ;-) , but more seriously seems to me to under-emphasize that we are talking about a category of cognitive ability that is far lower than what you would find in the average population. If I say that someone is "mentally retarded" one immediately knows that I have indicated they are in a distinct category different from the "merely stupid", whereas with "intellectually disabled" it is very fuzzy and probably purposely so. While there might be good intentions in not drawing such a sharp line between groups, the fuzziness leads to a lot of unintentional ambiguity and can be very, very misleading. --24.147.86.187 15:29, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that this is another one of those 'continuum' things. We have all shades of 'mental disability' ranging from the mildest things to the worst - at some point you have to draw a line and use the term consistently. Where more shades of meaning are required, we need to qualify those terms. But dyslexia IS in most cases a 'learning disability' and since learning is to do with what happens in the brain, it's also a 'mental disability' - the problem is with people who (a) assume that a mental disability means someone who belongs in an asylum and needs to be drugged continually...and (b) people who have a relatively mild problem like dyslexia who do not want to be misidentified by the people in group (a). It's a pain in the ass that the (a) type people are out there doing that - but I don't think there is much we can do about it. Every time we come up with a word that they won't mis-identify, they change their language to match. Words like "idiot" and "moron" which are now DEEPLY offensive were once fairly accurately defined scientific terms with no special stigma attached to them. "mentally retarded" has spun off "mental" and "retard" as similarly tainted terms. But as fast as we find new euphonisms, they get coopted by the (a)-type people and piss off the (b)-types. I have Asperger syndrome - if someone calls me "mentally retarded", I'd be forced to agree that in some respects that's true...I'm useless at understanding other people's emotions, I'm socially inept and I have to strongly resist the temptation to neaten up the shelf displays at supermarkets as I walk past. Sure - that's a mental retardation. (Of course I can kick butt at science, math and computers...but that's a different thing). If the term "mentally retarded" was a mere banner term that everyone understood to mean "anyone below the 20th percentile in some subset of the mental arts" - there would be no problem in accepting that. SteveBaker 18:20, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Wow. I find it hard to relate to any of what 187 has just said. People are people first, with a range of abilities and disabilities. They have the right to choose how they want to be categorised or labelled - if at all. There is no need to put other people into nice tidy pigeon holes, just to suit our own convenience. Gandalf61 15:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I have a lot of problems with that. Firstly, I don't think there is a universal 'right' to choose how you want to be categorised of labelled. I might want people to categorise me "nicest guy in the known universe with the highest IQ in history" - but I don't think I have any right to insist on it - that's no different from someone with an IQ of 50 demanding to be called "normal" rather than "mentally retarded". Secondly, we DO have to put people into nice tidy pigeon holes for a lot of reasons - for example, if we want to have the para-olympics for "disabled" people - we need to have a pidgeon hole for disabled people or perfectly fit athletes will take over and win all of the events. If we want to provide health care for people with particular categories of disability or pass laws to guarantee suitable education - you have to pidgeonhole those people who qualify separately from those who don't. I'm sorry - but as cute and touchy-feely as your sentiments are - they are just that - sentimental. We MUST categorise people and we CANNOT allow people to simply choose their own category. If we did then we'd be unable to provide the less fortunate amongst us the things they need in order to have some reasonable prospect of a decent life. SteveBaker 18:05, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Steve, I was talking about how people wish to be referred to, not whether they qualify for health care. Yes, it is sometimes necessary to assess, measure and grade people, but it is essential to remember that each individual is more than the sum of their statistics. Gandalf61 23:01, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

But you have to have a way to talk about a collection of people with similar problems in order to set rules, allocate resources and so forth. That guarantees that these 'pidgeon-hole' terms must be applied to people. If the law says that (say) physically disabled people get 10% of their health care paid for by the government - then those people have to be referred to by that term in that context. Sure, everyone is an individual - but we can't let that limit our ability to talk about groups of similar people with a convenient shorthand term. If we have to list all thousand or so brain conditions in order to say "mentally retarded" every time, we'll never get the help those people need. Sure, there is a spectrum of conditions - but you just have to apply limits and define general terms in order to make use of the language to communicate. SteveBaker 04:56, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Whatever term people may like to use for themselves, it's a safe bet few would be happy to be called "the afflicted". In any case, I disagree that one term is inherently more understandable than another. If someone knows what "mental retardation" implies it is because they have learned that definition. It is possible to learn other terms in the same way. I also don't agree that "intellectually disabled" is fuzzy. It uses two combines two fairly well-known concepts - intelligence, and disability. There is no lack of clarity with the similarly constructed "physically disabled"; no one confuses that with the "merely clumsy". I personally think both "retardation" and "delay" (as in "developmental delay") are unsatisfactory as they imply a slowing down of development, as opposed to an absence or severe incapacity of certain functions. - Eron ^Talk 16:06, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

what???

I want to know the event happened at Columbia at 1975. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.127.123.127 (talk) 06:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid you are going to have to be more specific. There are a hell of a lot of places called Columbia. Could you tell us exactly which Columbia you are referring to? Rockpocket 07:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Go to 1975, search for 'Columbia' and you'll find nothing. Search for 'Colombia' (the country) and you'll find "Government of Colombia announces finding of Ciudad Perdida." Maybe that's what you were looking for? DirkvdM 07:55, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

• There's also the (part-free, part-pay) New York Times search archive. For example, if you wanted Columbia University, here's the list of all the stories from 1975. --M@rēino 13:53, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The Class of '75 graduated. The Class of '79 arrived. Altogether there were 1,146 New York Times stories about Columbia University [1], and 105 about Columbia College [2], for which there is a charge, although you could view them free on microfilm or perhaps via computer and ProQuest at a large public library. In 1975 the faculty voted to admit women for the first time. The Trustees dismissed it as "impractical and short-sighted." (Dec. 14, 1975) (Eventually they changed their minds. The college commemorated the 200th anniversary of a revolution which resulted in a name change from "King's College." (Nov. 11, 1975) Edison 04:22, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Albury-Wodonga

If someone lived in Wodonga, would they be able to attend school in Albury and vice-versa? --Candy-Panda 07:29, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes. [3] FiggyBee 07:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! :) --Candy-Panda 08:26, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I can confirm this from my own experience. I was born in Albury, lived there till I was 10, and went to school there. One of the kids in my school was Shane Stone, who lived in Wodonga at the time. -- JackofOz 09:17, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Further confirmation. My mother lived in Wodonga and did all her schooling in Albury. I will assume this would be so that one can choose whether to do the HSC or VCE. Albury students do the HSC, Wodonga students do the VCE (we have similar things here in ACT) Steewi 00:54, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

jornal on training

please find jurnals of training220.247.225.30 08:40, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

What kind of training are you referring to? --Richardrj ^{talk email} 10:18, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

receiving air traffic radio on a fm radio from a distance.

yes i'e seen the archive post but my question is a little more in depth.

I live about 20 km from the nearest airport and i'm a pilot and i understand radio theory as much as the next pilot( which is prbly more than the average joe_), i was just wondering if there was a way to boost the range of my fm receiver( a simple modified household am/fm radio that can receive the proper HF's) so i can pick up my aiports air traffic frequency's. Is it just a simple matter of extending my anntena? I know i can pick up the radio from my plane that is just a couple thousand feet above my house, but that doesn't mean much since radio readablilty increases with hieght.

Is there any way i can modifiy my radio more to pick up the frequencies from my house? What i've done so far is just mess around wih the coils and modulation boxes. i can easily pick up air traffic on this radio when i'm at the airport. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.65.125.84 (talk) 10:01, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, put your antenna as high as you can get it. You could use a directional antenna for more gain, or if it's inherently directional play with the orientation, which may or may not correspond exactly to the compass heading. An amplifier at the antenna will help. The antenna (and transmission line) is the thing you want to max out first. (I'm a former First Phone.) --Milkbreath 10:26, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree FM is pretty much a line-of-sight thing - that's why your reception gets better with height - you can see further. So you don't need a longer antenna (antenna design is a subtle and complex business - longer is not necessarily better) - you need to put the antenna up higher. SteveBaker 14:27, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Airports air traffic frequencies are arround 130-140 MHz, FM is 88-108 MHz. Also, they uses (if i remember correctly) AM (amplitude modulation), not FM. Frequency converter for converting from 130-140 to (for example) 98-108 should be possible. (When in this area FM transmitters were modified from using 65-73 MHz to 100-108 MHz, for some time there were available converters). Also there will be need to modify detector to receive AM, which could be more complicated. -Yyy 07:46, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

If it's just a question of listening to a particular airport, you might check www.liveatc.net, and see if that airport or facility is on their system. I'm enjoying listening to KEMT even as we speak (er... type). Bunthorne 03:14, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

World flag

Is there a world flag? Keria 12:20, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia knows all - see our article on Earth flag. Gandalf61 12:34, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

There's also a world citizen flag.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Wow. What ugly flags! Personally, I prefer the Flag of the United Nations. FiggyBee 13:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I think that the Flag of the United Nations is probably also the one that most people think of when they hear the term "world flag." --M@rēino 13:55, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, ugly. Their only saving grace is that their colours are green and gold. -- JackofOz 14:06, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

While we're talking about flags, I always thought the Flag of the IAEA was impressively kick-ass. It has a wonderful art-deco, Sputnik-era feel to it. --24.147.86.187 14:08, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The rainbow flag is associated with inclusiveness amongst other things - and would be a good choice should we ever need a earth flag87.102.18.10 14:46, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The olympic flag, although predominantly associated with sport and the olympics is also a world flag in some ways. Oh and the Voyager Golden Record & Pioneer plaque while not exactly flags were intended to represent our world Nil Einne 14:18, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

It's important to note though that absolutely none of those things are in any way "official" because none of those organisations truly represent every nation on earth. So "Is there a world flag?" is "Yes - in fact there are many of them" - but "Is there an official, universally accepted world flag?" is "No - and there is never likely to be such a thing!". Can you just imagine the grief when some colours are reserved for religious regions and others are the colours of royalty and some combinations have nasty historical connotations. There is no way you'd get everyone to agree on a single flag. SteveBaker 17:56, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Saying that the UN doesn't represent every nation on Earth is a bit pedantic. According to United Nations member states, the non-members are Vatican City (which has observer status anyway), Palestine, Western Sahara and Taiwan, whose sovereignty are debatable, and the Cook islands and Niue, which are represented by New Zealand.130.88.79.24 09:56, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

There's also (at least one) World anthem (song) just in case you're interested. dr.ef.tymac 20:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The Internationale obviously also has such aspirations. Or should I say 'had'? DirkvdM 17:37, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Worldwide dog ownership statistics for new article

Hi,

I'm hoping to do an article on dog ownership, to complement some others on pet ownership. An add-on section to Most popular dogs in the world or something.

Can someone help me find resources? I'm looking for stats on worldwide dog ownership by country, rather than within countries. So a table of the form <country name> <pet dog population> or something. or any stats on dog ownership. But not just the KC records of a few individual selected countries. Something about global pet dog ownership stats.

Any help much appreciated!

FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 14:21, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

's gonna be difficult. You might try some dog-owner, pet care or animal rights organisations (on a national level) or things like that, they could possibly give you numbers. I have heard a figure like the ones you are looking for ONCE in my life - a few years back on TV - that in Poland there are about eight million dogs. I suppose this could be true, although this IS a lot for a country with roughly ~38m residents. Cheers, Ouro (blah blah) 08:35, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

barber shops

why is it that the prices listed in barber shops are what you pay? (i.e. no tax is added at the register) No other legitimate businesses that I can think of do this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.217.195.89 (talk) 15:04, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Do you fancy telling us in which country this pertains. In the UK prices displayed for consumers are cited inclusive of value added tax & represent what you pay at the checkout. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

There is an odd phenomenon: In the UK, almost all prices are stated inclusive of tax (VAT) - but in the US, they hardly ever are. When I ask people why, Brits say "Well, when I'm shopping, I want to know what I'm actually going to pay for the item - so of course the price should include tax". Here in Texas (at least), Americans say "I want to know how much tax I'm paying - so I need to see that separately."...I guess it goes along with the much bigger mistrust of 'big government' here. Another theory I have about that is that in the UK, VAT purchase taxes are uniform across the entire country. Here in the US, it varies from city to city, state to state - so I guess that being able to see the tax (at least at the checkout) is somewhat useful. Personally, I find it a pain in the ass! If I've only got a $20 in my pocket and I want to buy something that costs close to $20, I have no clue of the exact tax rate on this specific item in this specific city without going to the checkout. Urgh!

I can't say I've noticed that barber shops are any different - but I suppose it's possibly because they are a rare example of a pure service industry. Almost anything else you buy in a retail setting is mostly a product (a hat, a chair, a burger) - but when you get a haircut, aside perhaps from a tiny dab of hairgel or whatever - you are paying for the labor of the person doing the work. Perhaps in whatever country you are talking about, there is no tax on services? SteveBaker 15:19, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

(EC) Actually not everywhere in the UK does this, which can throw you a little - for instance if you visit Makro - their prices are not inclusive of VAT. Lanfear's Bane 15:22, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Even Makro's price tickets include both the net and gross prices. It's just that the bigger, bolder number is the <ahem> cheaper one. --Dweller 15:29, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

And members of the general public are not admitted to Makro. DuncanHill 15:34, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

In the UK, displayed prices must include any taxes, by law, unless the goods are intended for trade use (as at Makro, who require a trade pass).--Shantavira|^{feed me} 15:36, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

(ec) Which means that it makes sense for the prices they display not to include VAT. If the retailer is registered for VAT, they can reclaim VAT paid back. So the ex-VAT price is the price they ultimately pay. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 15:38, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

In Australia, too, the law "prohibits promotion of part of the price without also specifying the cash price of the product". FiggyBee 15:51, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the real reason stores here in the USA don't list prices is because tax varies from state to state and they don't want to appear to be higher priced than their competitors in neighboring states. By listing the pre-tax price people blame the state instead of blaming the retailer.69.95.50.15 16:50, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Are there places with multiple sales tax rates (other than exempting food and a few other items entirely)? If not, sales tax is easy to compute because it's applied only to the gross retail price; whereas value added tax as I understand it is applied in increments every time a product changes hands – when the manufacturer buys the parts, when the wholesaler buys from the manufacturer, when the retailer buys from the wholesaler, and when the consumer buys from the retailer. So, if the consumer were made aware of the last increment of VAT, it wouldn't mean much; and the retailer may not know how much VAT was paid in previous increments and so cannot advise the consumer of it. —Tamfang 16:57, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

In Virginia, the sales tax on groceries is 2.5% and on other items it is 5%. --LarryMac | Talk 17:36, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The simplest answer, within the States, is that barbers set an unlisted price such that the price-with-tax is a nice round number. I lived next door to a pizza place in college that did the same thing -- all menu items went to the quarter because actual prices looked like $1.13. — Lomn 15:38, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Showing my ignorance there, I was not aware of the ability to claim the VAT back etc, I was with someone in Makro as opposed to doing my weekly shopping there. You only ever eat a 24 pack of Heinz beans once before you go back to Tesco. Lanfear's Bane 15:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I've no idea of the VAT setup in the US, but perhaps it is exempt of VAT? I know in the UK we have certain goods/services that are VAT free because they are 'essential'. Perhaps (though probably not) barbers come into this group? If this were the case then it would make sense. I think the UK way makes more sense than showing everything pre tax price - though due to America's state-variable amount it could have a rule to say that the price should display both excluding and including VAT - thus you get the best of both worlds. ny156uk 16:31, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

That's easy. There is no VAT setup in the US. --LarryMac | Talk 17:36, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

When I get my car serviced, I pay sales tax on parts and fluids but not on labor. Perhaps the barber's service, which is almost pure labor, is not taxable (at least in some places)? —Tamfang 16:57, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

There is no VAT per se in the US, at least not in any jurisdiction I'm aware of. Most jurisdictions do have sales tax, which is a little different -- you're taxed on the entire price of the item, not on the value added by the last manufacturer to touch it. Usually at a lower percentage than VAT -- most sales taxes run 5 to 10 percent. This may be part of the reason that it makes sense to leave it out of the stated price -- with a sales tax you can predict the exact final price (assuming you know the tax rate); with a VAT you'd have to know how much the manufacturer paid for the inputs. --Trovatore 17:34, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think everyone here understands the distinction between VAT (which is purely a European Community concept) and sales tax (which is pretty much everywhere else in the world). VAT has some odd properties. The theory is that if I'm a store and I buy some commodity, I pay VAT on that - then I add my profit - and I charge my customers VAT on the total price (which is more than the VAT I paid when I bought the item). The difference between what VAT I collected and what I paid is owed to the government. HOWEVER - if your business is big enough (and I have no clue what the current threshold is), you are allowed to buy items VAT-free (ie you pay no VAT when you buy the item) - and when you charge VAT to your customers, you owe the government the entire amount. Either way, the government collects that same fixed percentage of the final cost - but it may either be collected in small increments as the goods goes from raw materials to parts to finished product to wholesaler to retailer to the consumer...or it may be collected in one big lump in the final stage (or some combination of those things).

Depending where you are in Europe, the VAT rate may vary. As may the list of things that get charged at a higher "Luxury item" VAT rate and the things that are excempt from VAT. As I recall from the last time I was living in the UK, childrens clothes, school supplies, books and food were exempt from VAT and there was nothing in the 'luxury item' category. I'm fairly sure things have changed since then though. SteveBaker 17:50, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

• Two more things:
  • There's a psychological factor. In the USA, customers are expected to tip the barber. American customers are used to paying one bump-up from the list price because of state sales tax. If the sales tax were not hidden in the price, the customer would see two bump-ups -- tax and tip -- but, as the saying goes out of sight, out of mind.
  • For some unscrupulous barbers, this also helps with tax evasion. Barbers are much more likely than most other businesses to (1) have the owner work the cash register, (2) operate almost entirely in paper money, not electronic money. If your receipts don't print out sales tax -- or if you work without receipts at all -- it's easier to let some money slip through the cracks. --M@rēino 18:49, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Part of the reason the prices in the UK and other places are quoted inclusive of VAT is to avoid the iniquitous problems associated with price games, whereby a person si told one price, then pays another.

A private consumer in the UK (for example) buying a £1000 computer is obligated to pay an ultimate out-of-pocket cost of £1117.50 (because the VAT is 100% non-recoverable). A business buying a £1000 computer is obligated to pay an ultimate out-of-pocket cost of £1000 (because the VAT is 100% recoverable). The same applies to supplies of most services.

FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 00:07, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

One more thing: even in the US (and Canada, with the same practice of adding tax(es) to the marked price), there are in fact "other legitimate businesses" where the marked or advertised price is frequently (not necessarily always) the price you pay. These include:

• gas stations
• admission fees to movies, plays, museums, and parks
• buses and trains, both urban and long-distance
• small refreshment stands

For gas stations, I presume the rule originated because the pump was already multiplying the 10.82 gallons you bought by the price per gallon and it seemed silly to then make the attendant do arithmetic on the resulting number, in a time when he would have had to do it himself. Most of the other cases, like barber shops, involve businesses that charge only a small number of different prices and can easily choose to set them so as to avoid dealing with small change -- if they don't have to have sales tax added to the rounded price.

--Anonymous, 04:45 UTC, October 10, 2007.

Synesthesia

No, I'm not asking for medical advice, so all of you who are going to tell me Wikipedia is not allowed, shut up. I'm just wondering if anyone else thinks that this sounds like color synesthesia: every time I hear a song, I associate it with a color. Hey Jude is purple, Everlong is a dark, brooding blue, Where the Streets Have No Name is, for some reason, both black and white (they contrast to create a very nice picture), and Immigrant Song is a greyish white.

I know it sounds weird, but I can't hear a song without having a color that sticks with it... Sometimes it makes sense (I think of green when I hear Kryptonie because Kryptonite is, in fact, green) and sometimes it doesn't (Clocks is white, and I've no idea why). I've never met anyone else who does this, and I just read the article on CS. Musical prowess runs in my family, as well. It seems to me that it fits pretty well - anyone else think so? --69.144.233.96 17:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I believe synesthesia would entail you literally seeing those colours when you hear the song...not just having some vague feeling that a particular colour belongs with a song. But it's really tough to know how another person sees or thinks because we have no way to compare. The way they test for this would be (in your case) to play you hundreds of songs that you've never heard before - ask you to specify the colour you see/hear for each one - then come back (say) a week later so you can't possibly have memorized the songs and colours - play the songs again in a different order and see what percentage of them come back with the same colour for you. True synesthetes can pass this test easily and will score close to 100%. You could probably do this yourself with an MP3 player...fill it up with songs you don't know - listen to them through in order, writing down the colour and the title on the MP3 player. Wait a week, put the player on "shuffle play" mode and (without looking at your original notes - repeat the exercise noting colour and title. Now compare your two lists and see how many you got right. Then I think you'll know for sure. SteveBaker 18:40, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

• Brillant answer, Steve! I second it! --M@rēino 18:51, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

There are many tests to check whether you have synesthesia or not (such as those shown in our article). For some reason I think you won't be categorized as such. --Taraborn 22:08, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

In the meantime you might enjoy a song by The Bobs called Synaesthesia -- I think it's off their Shut Up and Sing album.

When The Beatles sing

It's a yellow thing

And the Stones are always purple

Heavy metal

Is ultraviolet

It's unhealthy

But I love that Coppertone glow

--Trovatore 18:53, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Something similar happens to me with musical notes and chords. C and C major are yellow, E minor is a different kind of yellow, E and E major are blue, A and A major are red, A minor is a different kind of red, B and B major are orange, D and D major are green... Adam Bishop 19:01, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

That's very interesting. Do you have perfect pitch? What do you 'see' if a tone isn't a Western note/frequency? — Matt Eason ^{(Talk &#149; Contribs)} 19:48, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Not at all, I can barely read music, I have only guitar skills of middling quality (but doesn't everyone!). I've never thought about non-Western music like that, I'll have to pay attention next time I hear some. Adam Bishop 00:57, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Btw, thank you for telling the deletionists to shut up. Maybe if they'd 'shut up and sing' they'd get a life. :) DirkvdM 17:57, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Who is "Ted Lapidus" ??

I know that there's a fragrance called "Ted Lapidus", and maybe there's a company called so.. but I want to know who's the person which are these things named after??.. Ahmad510 20:09, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Here's a (not terribly detailed) biography — Matt Eason ^{(Talk &#149; Contribs)} 20:33, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

tigers

Can someone help, I'm looking for pictures of tiger kittens and your encyclopaedia doesn't seem to have any. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.159.90.79 (talk) 20:12, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

There's a few on Wikimedia Commons, like these ones. There may be more if you search around there. - Eron ^Talk 20:25, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

There's another at [4]. It's worth searching for 'tiger cubs' as well as 'tiger kittens'. — Matt Eason ^{(Talk &#149; Contribs)} 20:31, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Using a Scalpel

When making precise cuts in surgery, does the surgeon rest his/her palm on the patients body to stabilize the hand, much like writing with a pencil? Or must the only point of contact be the scalpel? Acceptable 22:26, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The answer will depend very much on the site of the incision. For example cutting the abdominal skin would not necessarily require the support of the hand on the abdomen because the incision accuracy would only need a tolerance of, say, 2 millimetres. However making an incision on the face, for example near the eye or micro-surgery of nerves, will need fautless precision and thus the surgeon will need to support and steady his hand. Different surgeons employ slightly different methods for achieving accuracy of incision, but the majority use the 'pencil' style method of holding the scalpel, the next most common method being holding the scalpel like a cutlery knife with the end of the handle in the palm of the hand. I do not recommend sugery at home! Richard Avery 08:00, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

FIND A PLACE

I am trying to find Hastle Bach, Pembrokeshire, Wales. Any body know if it ever existed

Tried a number of gazetteers [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], but no luck, sorry.—eric 23:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Me, too. It ain't there now, I'm pretty sure, because it isn't in the 1985 Ordnance Survey Motoring Atlas. The closest I could come was Little Newcastle, which used to be called "Casnewydd-bach", "bach" being "little". "Hastle" didn't appear as a word or as an affix in the Welsh dictionary I used or in the glossary of placename elements. There is no placename like "Hastle" in Pembrokeshire, either, that there might have been a "Lesser" one of. I gave it my best shot without leaving the room. --Milkbreath 23:39, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Google Maps shows a 'Castle Bach' in Llandrindod Wells, Powys, Wales. But no 'Hastle Bach'. SteveBaker 04:31, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

The Worst Speller and Naming Your Award Stars

Over the years I have seen several articles that have had misspelled words and gramatical errors, and I now see that this encyclopedia has a group to fix the problem and even an award for those who correct spelling and grammar errors. That revelation leads me to ask a couple of questions: First, does anyone know who the worst speller on Wikipedia is?

Secondly, has anyone considered renaming the spelling and grammar correction star in honor of the worst speller here? In the case of RickK, I gather the antivadal star was named in his honor for his role in preventing/reverting vandalism (at least, that is what I assume); I presume therefore other stars could in theory be named in honor of others who have outstanding or otherwise notabale traits. How about it? Anyone know the answer(s) to these questions?

There was a guy who not only had bad spelling, he didn't think punctuation rules were worth following either, especially the one about putting a space after a comma or period. But he is long gone, thankfully, and I don't remember his name. The worst spellers are usually people from other language projects who have vastly overestimated their grasp of English. Adam Bishop 00:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

If you Google Wikipedia for "full of spelling" you'll find no shortage of candidates. Makes amusing reading for a while (but after you've read a few it all becomes rather depressing).--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:35, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

The worst spellers are everyone who speaks the "other" variant of English. ;-)

Atlant 12:13, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

GRADUATION N' CAREER

HI,I GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL AND I'D LIKE TO KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY DOES A C.I.A AGENT GETS PAID?THANXX PS:ALSO MY SISTER GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL SO DOES SOMEONE KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY A flight attendant GETS PAID?THANX AGAIN

Couldn't find an answer to the CIA question, but according to here: "...the pay ranges from about $13.00-$40.00 per flight hour or more. Most airlines have in place a monthly guarantee which ranges between 65-80 flight hours. The Flight Attendant is paid the guarantee whether he/she actually works those hours or not. Most new hire flight attendants will earn between $16,000-23,000 and may eventually earn up to $75,000 per year. Actual pay per hour is dependent upon years of service and any special qualifications the Flight Attendant may have on board the aircraft. Flight Attendants also receive a special per diem for each hour spent away from home. This per diem is in place to cover meals and other expenses. With each year of service comes an increase in salary." -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 01:12, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Note that a career in the CIA might mean you are expected to find things. I suggest you practice by first finding your capslock key. This site states "the CIA is a government agency; as such, the salaries are less than stellar. The exact salaries are kept top-secret (as is everything to do with the CIA's budget), but don't ever expect to make six figures - something between $30,000 - $60,000 is a lot more realistic. " "Your starting salary ranges from $34,000-52,000 depending on experience. " --Ybbor^Talk 01:20, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

• You might also want to apply for a CIA college scholarship. If you want to be a Clandestine Agent, or do most of the other cool jobs at the CIA, you'll need a degree from a 4-year college, and you'll usually need to have at least a 3.0 grade-point average. --M@rēino 16:18, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Is Matrixism real?

I keep seeing signs for this religion all over the place. But is Matrixism a real religion or not? 206.188.56.88 23:42, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

We used to have an article for Matrixism though it was deleted due to being a neologism as I recall. You can check the logs if you like... Anyway, it's real in that there are probably a few people who believe in it. It's not "real" in that no governmental state acknowledges it as a legitimate religion. Dismas|^(talk) 00:40, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

It is also interesting that (presumably) one anonymous editor keeps asking question about Matrixism on the Ref Desks. I note there has been numerous edits to the article, its talk page and its deletion discussions promoting its notability from 206.188.56.88. Please be aware that mentioning Matrixism here to generate more Ghits is a form of WP:SPAM. If you have a genuine question, then ask away, but we have pretty much exhausted all there is to say about this subject. Rockpocket 02:11, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Mentioning anything on Wikipedia in order to get Google to boost the rating of the site it links to is pointless because Google no longer counts outgoing links from Wikipedia in measuring the relevence of a site. I believe Yahoo agreed to do the same thing. SteveBaker 13:37, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Pre-med Physics

In North America, is the science course Physics mandatory for all pre-medical and medical students? Acceptable 23:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Didn't you just ask this, possibly on another reference desk?

Atlant 12:14, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Nope.Acceptable 01:39, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

• I have no idea about all medical schools, but Georgetown requires physics, plus lab. --M@rēino 16:21, 11 October 2007 (UTC)