Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 February 1

Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

February 1

Other websites I might like?

I regularly look at the websites BBC News, http://news.bbc.co.uk/ , Arts & Letters Daily, http://www.aldaily.com/ , and Wikipedia. If I like those websites, what other websites might I like please? Looking at the world through my computer monitor is like looking through a periscope - you do not get a wrap-around view of what's going on. 84.13.23.254 (talk) 12:30, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Try The Guardian, probably the most encyclopedic and diverse British newspaper website. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:19, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

You might like Salon.com or Slate.com. You might also want to try Social bookmarking, where other people recommend interesting pages. Social bookmarking sites include, digg, reddit, Stumbleupon and del.icio.us. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 13:31, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

For a view from the southern hemisphere try, The Sydney Morning Herald HERE from Sydney, Australia. Or The Australian HERE--220.101.28.25 (talk) 15:25, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

For a view from most of the rest of the world, try the news round-up of Global Info, "daily news service of the developing world". BrainyBabe (talk) 00:02, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Is there any internet equivalent of The Week? 89.242.39.49 (talk) 13:33, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

It's not the same thing, but I find the B3ta newsletter is a decent way of keeping on top of the main goings-on online. 86.179.145.61 (talk) 21:44, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Calendar conventions

The above question regarding Japanese calendars reminded me of another thing that puzzles me about them: why do weeks usually start with Sundays on them? Here in Slovenia, and I suppose Europe, weeks start with Mondays, and this seems to me the most logical way to start a week on a calendar. Why would the Japanese start calendar weeks with Sundays? Do other countries do this as well? TomorrowTime (talk) 13:40, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

In Judeo-Christian tradition, the Creation story takes one week and begins on a Sunday (since it ends with the sabbath, i.e. Saturday). So I think the next question should be how people started use the same pattern of a week but beginning it on a Monday. Marnanel (talk) 13:58, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

(ec) Traditionally in the West weeks started on Sunday, based on the idea that creation was Sunday-Friday, with Saturday as God's day off. The change to Monday as the first day of the week is fairly recent, I think, and presumably arose because it matches the modern working week. Also we tend to think of "the weekend" as a unit, so having Saturday and Sunday next to each other on a calendar is helpful. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 13:59, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

(ec)Unfortunately, the Calendar article does not enlighten us on this. But one thing to consider is that Saturday is the Sabbath, technically the 7th day of the week as regarded Biblically. It's possible that European calendars, perhaps being more strongly influenced by the Catholic Church, put Sunday as the 7th day to be the Christian version of the "Sabbath", a.k.a. "The Lord's Day". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:01, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinking specifically of Spanish, but the other Romance languages use a similar system. When you're taught the days of the week in Spanish class, you order them like this: lunes (e.g. "moon" day), martes, miercoles, jueves, viernes, sabado (sabbath), domingo (Lord's day) - Monday through Sunday. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:04, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, In Australia for example, printed wall calendars generally start with Sunday. Like the manner of writing dates, decimal points, and even the time, there are many variations depending on the common practice in each country. Often these are for historical reasons. With computers it is quite easy to make a calendar to any format you like. It's only our imposition of a particular 'start' day. You may start your calender on any day you wish, if it it more convenient for you. You could also take a look at your computer setting (XP) Start/Control Panel/Regional and Language Settings. Though you cannot change your calendar start day from there. As for Japan, they have their own calendar year system based on the Emperors year of 'ascension'(ie nth Year of Emperor X rather than a fixed start year). I would hazard a guess that they have adopted 'western' style calendars from western influences in the Meiji Restoration, and for convenience when trading with other countries, as the 7 day week seems to be universal.--220.101.28.25 (talk) 14:19, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

It's not entirely universal-- see Week-- but it is an ISO standard-- see Seven-day week. Marnanel (talk) 14:25, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Date and time notation by country, ISO 8601 and ISO week date may have relevant info relating to international date and calendar standards. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 14:30, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Specific to Japan Seven-day week#Japan, but not why they start on a 'Sunday'. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 14:39, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Workweek gives a few example of working weeks that begin on Sunday, not Monday, ie. Jewish/Islamic to allow a Friday Sabbath --220.101.28.25 (talk) 16:37, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

The Sabbath is Saturday, or technically sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:06, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

As a matter of interest, the University of Cambridge starts weeks on a Thursday. 131.111.248.99 (talk) 17:29, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Why, pray tell, would they do that? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:48, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea. I think a quote from my college's website might be relevant: "At Cambridge, you never ask Why, you ask Since When?" 13:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.248.99 (talk)

Also Seven-day week#Week numbering in particular. I was under the impression that in Chinese Sunday is usually thought of as the end of the week, not the beginning and most Chinese (Gregorian) calenders place Sunday at the end (at least it tends to be the case in Malaysia AFAIK). Workweek#China mentions this. These provide some info on the Chinese system [1] [2] [3] but the last one appears to suggest Sunday is consider the first day of the week nowadays. [4] also makes this claim. It's difficult to find more info since searches for China or Chinese calendar and similar things of course find the Chinese lunisolar calendar. Nil Einne (talk) 09:10, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I'd go with the Christian sabbath theory; this[5] English hymn, "the first of days" is about Sunday. The first point it makes is that it was the day the Creation according to Genesis started, then the Resurrection of Jesus and finally Pentecost. Alansplodge (talk) 17:47, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you all. The issue is clearer to me now. Since the number of weekdays was mentioned, I would like to offer some interesting reading in return for all your input: Soviet calendar. TomorrowTime (talk) 17:52, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Looking up at the two calendars in front of me here in the UK, I see that one starts on Sunday and one on Monday. Both are readily available here but the Monday start is becoming more common. Thank you for the interesting Soviet link. Dbfirs 00:32, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

As for this Sunday vs Monday thing: Proleptic Gregorian Jan 1, AD 1 was a Monday: see here: Talk:Monday That settles it for me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.208.249.132 (talk) 02:55, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Proleptic? I think I'll wait until nearly 4000 AD to see what day of the week they start with in the future, then come back to decide which is best in 2010. Dbfirs 07:56, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Not exactly. What I meant was something like this.

    What day is today? For me, at least, it is Feb. 2, 2010.
    I will read this as: the 2nd day of February of the 2010th year.
    If we use straight days, instead of days, months, and years, this becomes:
            2009 complete years x 365 days --->   733285 days
         add 502 leap days   (4-year rule) --->  +   502 days
    take away 20 leap days (100-year rule) --->  -    20 days
           add 5 leap days (400-year rule) --->  +     5 days
           add the 31 days of January 2010 --->  +    31 days
     add the first 2 days of February 2010 --->  +     2 days
                                                 ============
                                         Total:   733805 days
     
    Therefore, today (Feb. 2, 2010) is the 733805th day (in our reckoning, at least)
    733805 days = 104829 seven-day weeks + 2 days
    so we're on the 2nd day of the 104830th week
    and what day of the week is the second day of the week?
    if you say Monday, it doesn't come out right: today is Tuesday,
    making Tuesday the second day of the week,
    and Monday the first day of the week.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.35.97.29 (talk) 21:04, 2 February 2010 (UTC) 

Was the first year of your calendar 1 or 0? Googlemeister (talk) 21:42, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Why would anyone ever expect the first year of an era to be anything but 1? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 19:00, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Such wild extrapolation into the past cannot be reliable. How do you know what leap year rules would have been used if the Gregorian calendar had been devised in 1 AD? Would we have needed a Herschel-style adjustment? Dbfirs 07:55, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Red Wine Vinegar Substitute

Resolved

I am planning to make a fish stir fry, and the recipe calls for sake, red wine vinegar and soy sauce to make the flavour. I don't have sake, and I don't know where I could get it, so scrap that. But I do have soy sauce, my local store doesn't have red wine vinegar. It does have malt vinegar, white wine vinegar and balsamic vinegar. Will any of them do?

For the record, the recipe is http://www.ifood.tv/recipe/fish-stir-fry-with-ginger.

Thanks, Prokhorovka (talk) 15:12, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

I've never tried to make a dish like that, but I would think white wine vinegar would be the best substitute for red wine vinegar. Balsamic and malt both have very strong, distinctive flavours, which would significantly alter the flavour of the dish. White wine vinegar has a subtler flavour and should be more similar to red wine vinegar. The sake is probably a key ingredient, though, you should try to find some. It is quite widely available, where do you live? --Tango (talk) 15:23, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Currently Manchester, but I only have access to a bike and my feet. The real issue with sake is I don't want to buy a big amount for this one dish which I'm trying, and being a wine I doubt it will last. Prokhorovka (talk) 15:45, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Our article, sake, says it will last probably still be usable several weeks after opening, although it won't be at its best for more than a few days. --Tango (talk) 15:51, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

You might be able to pick up some sake - or another kind of rice wine (no idea how substitutable they are) - here: http://www.wingyip.com/page-495.html--86.25.237.148 (talk) 15:58, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Dry sherry is a good substitute for sake and being fortified will keep even when opened..Chinese supermarkets also sell rice wine which is a near equivalent.hotclaws 17:08, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

If you're lucky, you might run across some "cup sake", that is, sake in a 2dcl glass. TomorrowTime (talk) 17:54, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Dry sherry would work, and I own sherry, but sadly I prefer a very sweet version (Harvey's Bristol Cream). I've settled for White Wine Vinegar, and unless someone tells me Sweet Sherry and Dry Sherry taste the same when cooked, it's Soy Sauce, Olive Oil and Wine Vinegar for the flavour. Thanks everyone. I've have a look for some Cup Sake for next time, I'm cooking tonight. Prokhorovka (talk) 19:14, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

I'd just use a bit of red wine; add some of whatever vinegar you have around to get the acidity (red wine vinegar tends to be more acidic than white vinegar.) Careful with rice vinegar; it's often sweetened, so you need to take that into account. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 19:38, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

For the record, the meal worked great, thanks for all your help. Can someone cleverer than me stick a resolved tag on this? Prokhorovka (talk) 21:35, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

LUFTWAFFE

HI.

  Please find below a request, first in English and then German.

   Any help, suggestions , or contacts would be much appreciated.
                                      CLIF.

---

I write on behalf of contributors to the thread on PPRuNe (professional pilots rumour network , military section) which can be found on the internet by Googling either PPRuNe or cliffnemo. This is a thread that has now developed into various wartime pilots from all over the world describing their experiences during world war 11. The thread is called ‘ Gaining an R.A.F pilots brevet in W.W 11.’

Although we have tried to make contact with our opposite numbers in Germany , we have had no success and wonder if you could help us to contact either ex Luftwaffe aircrew or near relatives who would be good enough to share information with us. I would assure you that this is a very friendly site, and any ex Luftwaffe aircrew or airmen would be warmly welcomed, and any information appreciated.

I have been frequently informed that many historians obtain information from this thread, and have been asked by certain aircraft museums for permission to use extracts from the thread. Also I have been told that the thread contains a lot of information that does not appear in ,novels, biographies , or other records. I would , therefore, appeal to your organisation for help, and thank you in anticipation.

I would also point out that it may be of interest to current members of the Luftwaffe re the training of aircrew in England and America during the war, as this is described in detail.

                           -------TRANSLATION-------

Ich schreibe im Namen des Web der PPRuNe (professional pilots rumor network, military section), welches im Internet bei Google oder cliffnemo unter PPRuNe gefunden werden kann. Das ist ein Forum, dass entwickelt wurde von verschiedenen Kriegspiloten aus aller Welt, um ihre Erlebnisse während des 2. Weltkrieges zu beschreiben. Die web Seite heißt "Gaining an R.A.F pilots brevet )in W.W.II" (BREVET + FLUGEL ? )

Auch haben wir versucht mit gleichgesinnten aus Deutschland Kontakt aufzunehmen. Wir hatten keinen Erfolg und bitten Sie uns zu helfen entweder ex Besatzungsmitglieder der Luftwaffe oder andere Beteiligte zu kontaktieren, die bereit sind, Informationen mit uns auszutauschen. Ich kann Ihnen versichern, dass wir eine sehr freundliche Seite sind und jedes ehemalige Mitglied einer Luftwaffen Manschaft (Pilot, Besatzung, Ingenieure)wird herzlich aufgenommen und jede Information wird geschätzt.

Ich werde regelmäßig darüber informiert, dass viele Historiker Informationen durch unsere web Seite erlangen und wurde von verschiedenen Flugzeugmusen um die Erlaubnis gebeten, Ausschnitte aus der web Seite zu benutzen zu dürfen. Mir wurde auch mitgeteilt, dass in der web Seite viele Informationen enthalten sind, die nicht in Romanen, Biographien oder anderen Aufzeichnungen enthalten sind. Ich würde hierfür gerne auf Ihre Organisation für Hilfe verweisen und bedanke mich hierfür im Voraus.

Ich möchte hervorheben, dass es vielleicht interressant sein kann von den Mitgliedern der Luftwaffe, betreffend des gängigen Trainings der Besatzungen in England und Amerika während des Krieges eine detalierte Beschreibung zu erhalten.

         VIELEN DANK.     CLIFF.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cliffnemo (talk • contribs) 15:19, 1 February 2010 (UTC) 

Your German text has a few grammatical errors, but I think that it is easy enough to understand. I almost think the errors should be left in place as a sign of the effort you have made and your sincerity. However, this organization apparently includes former air force personnel from the West German (and East German) air forces as well as from the Luftwaffe of the Third Reich. You might want to make a few edits to change "Luftwaffe" (which means air force generically and also refers to the modern German air force) to the more specific "Luftwaffe der Wehrmacht". "Wehrmacht" is a term referring specifically to the military forces of the Third Reich. Marco polo (talk) 17:24, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Notability for articles

How do I expedite the notability process for an article so that it's not deleted? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kjarmon2010 (talk • contribs) 15:54, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

You need to find an independent, reliable source (preferably more than one) that talks about the subject in a non-trivial way and add a reference to it to the article. If the article has a speedy deletion tag on it, you can add the {{hangon}} template and put a note on the talk page saying you are trying to find a source to establish notability and that should give you time. --Tango (talk) 16:10, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Given how delete-happy some editors are, it's best to provide reliable sources as part of the initial load of the article. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:03, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

If you want, you can start writing the article in a sub-page of your own user page. So long as what you are writing looks like an encyclopedia article, nobody will delete it from there. When you have a few paragraphs done and at least one or two references, you can copy/paste it into the main encyclopedia so that other people can more easily find it. SteveBaker (talk) 20:50, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Or move it there. —Akrabbim^talk 22:37, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

When I created the article on Bernard Foing, I first assembled a list of reliable sources that I planned on using as sources. I put a notice on the talk page explaining that the article was a stub along with this list of sources:[6]. It might help if your article is on a serious subject. My McDonald's rap article about a viral video[7] didn't fair as well. :( A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 22:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I guess you are talking about Block Starz Music. I haven't looked at most of the references you've given, but on the face of it, they don't look promising. Have you read WP:BAND? That sets out pretty clearly the kind of references you need to find to establish notability: and if they can't be found, then I'm afraid the band is Not Notable by WP's standard. --ColinFine (talk) 23:54, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Old Joe Clark, Renfro Valley Barn Dance

While perusing the Renfro Valley Barn Dance site, I chose to review the biographical information on Old Joe Clark, with whom I appeared on the Renfro Valley Barn Dance for many years. Instead of biographical information on the man, I only found that the information was geared toward a "song" by that name. Old Joe Clark was a very famous part of the Renfro Valley Barn Dance for many, many years. He and his wife, Jean, were such a part of the Renfro Valley family for generations of performers, all of whom loved and respected Joe and Jean highly! How can this situation be resolved? Please refer to Pete Stamper's (also a very many years performer on the Barn Dance) book entitled "It All Happened in Renfro Valley", which is available online. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kathee0927 (talk • contribs) 17:35, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Is Old Joe Clark notable? That means he is mentioned in several reliable sources. You tell us he's "famous", "loved", and "respected" - do you have sources, other than your own knowledge, to prove this? Do you have sources to back up basic biographical information and establish notability? If this the case, I still would advise against writing his article because you say you have a conflict of interest which can compromise the neutral point of view expected of all articles. Articles about non-notable people are likely to be deleted. Xenon54 / talk / 18:19, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

I notice that the names Red Davis, Joe Fisher, Mary Randolph, Ray Sanders and Wayne Turner in that article are also wikilinked to articles on individuals who appear likely or definitely not to be the performers in question. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 14:05, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Xenon, while everything you say is correct, I really think you could have been a little more helpful towards Kathee.

The first thing is that, as you say, the link on the Renfro Valley Barn Dance page was wrong. I have changed it so that instead of pointing to the song, it points to a (currently nonexistent) article called Old Joe Clark (musician).

As Xenon says, the key to having an article about him is notability (in Wikipedia's special sense). You say he is referred to in a book: that would probably be an acceptable source, provided it is published by a reputable publisher. Self-published works are not usually acceptable as sources for the same reason that personal knowledge is not: we have no way of verifying it. Without wishing to be rude, we have no idea who you are, or if you really knew him. (Come to that, unless he is referenced in reliable sources, we don't even know if he existed).

I would suggest that your best course is to start a discussion on the article's talk page, saying that you would like there to be an article about him, and asking for somebody who does not have a conflict of interest to work with you on it. If you have managed to find some sources, please mention them there. The reason I suggest that talk page is that it is likely to be read by people who have an interest in that subject. Alternatively you could post something at WP:Requested Articles, but I believe that has quite a backlog. --ColinFine (talk) 00:12, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Pirates of the Caribbean

Resolved

In approximately what year or century are the Pirates of the Caribbean movies set in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.89.14 (talk) 18:15, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Broadly speaking, piracy in the Caribbean existed for about 150 years, with the Golden Age of Piracy in the Caribbean being 1650-1680. I don't recall the movies ever trying to be specific, so the Golden Age is as good a guess as any. — Lomn 18:50, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

(EC)Our article on the first installment: Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl states that Depp used an authentic pistol that was made in 1760. Our article on actual Piracy in the Caribbean states that the "period during which pirates were most successful was from the 1690s until the 1720s", so while there may not be a definitive answer, one could come to the conclusion that the films are set in the early 1700's. cheers, 10draftsdeep (talk) 18:53, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

The third film is about the dying art of piracy, so to speak, so wouldn't that set the timing closer to the end of the 150 years? Prokhorovka (talk) 19:12, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

There were a number of anachronisms and historical inaccuracies in the movies. I wouldn't call them "mistakes", though. In fact, I'm pretty sure they're supposed to be like that, the intent is more of a pastiche, than a historical recreation of any particular point.

For example, a ship flying Blackbeard's flag can be seen among the ships in the pirate fleet, but the pirate lords included Ching Shih. In real history, those two pirates were separated by about a hundred years. APL (talk) 19:22, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't one of the movies (the third one?) have something to do with the East India Company? Not that that helps I guess because that was in existence before and after the pirate age. But the British are always British rather than English and fly the eighteenth-century union flag, if I remember correctly. Adam Bishop (talk) 05:49, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't think that film series is intended to be a documentary. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:55, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

The George+Andrew Union Flag is certainly used in the first film, but according to Union Flag#History it was used for certain purposes during the union of the crowns, so that doesn't necessarily date it to the eighteenth century. Algebraist 15:28, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't matter. Like I said, it's a pastiche, it's got elements from points in history hundreds of years apart, and It's pretty clear that it's supposed to be like that. Just like how the mythical parts of the story contain bits and pieces of dozens of different, unrelated myths, and mush them together into a single story. APL (talk) 20:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks!

Edward Everett Hale

On your site for this gentlemen, you should put that he was the man who spoke before Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. And his quote to Lincoln was, I believe, "You said more in two minutes than I said in two hours."

But his presense there was important enough to list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.226.108.136 (talk) 19:35, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

It would be best to suggest this at Talk:Edward Everett Hale, rather than here. This is a Reference Desk, where we answer questions. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 19:38, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Actually, per our article on the Gettysburg Address, the speaker in question was Edward Everett (a noted politician of the time), not Edward Everett Hale. — Lomn 20:15, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Easy to get them confused. See also Edward Everett Horton, actor. Edison (talk) 20:29, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Great. Now I'm envisioning Lincoln's Gettysburg Address being preceded by a "Fractured Fairy Tale". (At least that would only have run a few minutes). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:11, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Legal term

Resolved

What is the legal term for a person appointed by a judge in an inheritance matter? It is something like "Guardian at Leighton". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.25.129.211 (talk) 22:28, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Guardian ad litem. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 22:30, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

We also have Guardian ad litem ;) --Ouro (blah blah) 07:47, 2 February 2010 (UTC)