Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2012 April 29

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April 29

Famous pairs of brothers from all over the world

looking for country wise century wise category wise lists of famous pairs of brothers . Wright brothers , Grimm brothers like that. would appreciate any help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.83.244.183 (talk) 06:36, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by "country wise century wise category wise". Can you elaborate please? HiLo48 (talk) 06:39, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

I guess that the IP is looking for a list sortable on country and date, but I don't know what the third category might be. I can't find any such list in Wikipedia. Dbfirs 06:49, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

It's not exactly what you want but it's better than nothing...Category:Sibling duos. ny156uk (talk) 07:58, 29 April 2012

By Category I mean politics , entertainment . literature , music , sports etc

There is List of sibling pairs and you might find some more useful lists within the Category:Lists of families. There are also Category:Sibling groups (including the subcategory mentioned by Ny156uk as well as Category:Sibling filmmakers and Category:Sibling trios). ---Sluzzelin talk 12:22, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

It would help if you gave us a specific category, and we could brainstorm examples from that. For example, if we went with musicians, we could go with, say the Gallagher brothers (Oasis), or the Escovedo family (too many to name them all, but Pete Escovedo and Coke Escovedo were brothers IIRC), or the Jackson 5, or the Van Halen brothers or the Ruffin brothers (David Ruffin and Jimmy Ruffin), or the Vaughan brothers Stevie Ray Vaughan and Jimmie Vaughan), the Van Zant brothers (Ronnie, Johnny, and Donnie). For actors, you've got the Murray brothers Bill Murray and Brian Doyle Murray are the most famous, but there are several other brothers who acted), the Baldwin brothers (Alec Baldwin is the most famous, but he had three other brother who act that many would recognize), the Wayans brothers (Keenan Ivory Wayans and Damon Wayans are two, but again, there are several others), Jeff Bridges and Beau Bridges, there's Albert Brooks and Super Dave Osborne, or Charlie Sheen and Emilio Estevez, Ralph Fiennes and Joseph Fiennes. --Jayron32 18:49, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

From literature there are The Brothers Karamazov and The Corsican Brothers. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 20:15, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

In UK sport I can think of the soccer playing Charlton brothers Jack and Bobby, the cricket playing Bedser twins Alec and Eric and the more recent soccer-playing Neville brothers Gary and Phil. Richard Avery (talk) 07:50, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Cricket also had Adam and Ben Hollioake, and Aussie cricket has David and Mike Hussey. Pakistani cricket had the 4 Mohammad brothers (Hanif, Sadiq, Wazir and Mushtaq ), and I'm sure there are others. --TammyMoet (talk) 09:28, 30 April 2012 (UTC) such as Steve and Ben Harmison ... --TammyMoet (talk) 12:12, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

And don't forget the brothers Rory Underwood and Tony Underwood, who played Rugby Union for the same England national rugby union team in the 1990s. Alansplodge (talk) 13:10, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Apparently Harold and Arthur Wheatley also played Rugby for England in 1937. Alansplodge (talk) 20:50, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

The list of sibling pairs, to which Sluzzelin pointed, is probably the closest we have, but it isn't sorted in the ways requested by the OP and seems to be pretty incomplete. It's missing such historically important pairs as the Gracchi brothers and William and Henry James. John M Baker (talk) 13:47, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

I feel obliged to mention the Ames Brothers, who were actually a quartet (a pair of pairs) - and to whom I am not, so far as I know, related. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:35, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

And The Righteous Brothers, either of whom could be related more closely to you, Mitch, than they were to each other. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 01:37, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

More Australian cricket brothers - the Waughs and the Chappells, three in each case. Dean Waugh played one first class match. Trevor Chappell became famous forever by following his captain and brother Greg's instructions and actually bowling the ball in the Underarm bowling incident of 1981. HiLo48 (talk) 01:49, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

How loud is NASCAR?

I'm heading to a NASCAR race for the first time in a few weeks, and I'm wondering how loud it gets in the grandstand. Unfortunately, my searching hasn't gotten me anything better than "decibels when the crowd cheered for Driver X", which I'm pretty sure doesn't mean anything when it comes to "decibels when race cars drive past". Anybody have a decent rough estimate? — Lomn 13:23, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

The NY Times says 140 decibels is the peak volume, and cites a couple of scientific studies about the subject (although, frustratingly, doesn't give the titles). That's apparently the same as a jet engine. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 13:39, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it doesn't say at what distance from a jet engine it is comparing. People rarely get as close to a jet engine at full power (unless they are in the jet plane, in which case they are protected) as they do to a NASCAR track during a race. --Tango (talk) 14:37, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Bring ear protection just in case. Can't hurt, but could help. Rmhermen (talk) 02:46, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Sometimes they get a bit too close. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:15, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Here's an article with figures from the CDC - http://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2010/08/racecars/ Nanonic (talk) 06:36, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! And yes, ear protection is very much in the plans. — Lomn 15:18, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Do any states have laws requiring mobile home seat belt laws?

Do any states require passengers of moving mobile homes on the road to wear seatbelts at all times while the vehicle is in motion on the road? Just asking if such a law exists in any state; that's not advice. 69.243.220.115 (talk) 17:01, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

I doubt if there are laws specifically for mobile home seat belts. However, the laws written for other passenger vehicles may be written so as to include mobile homes. For example, if they specify "any motor vehicle with 4 or more wheels and a GVWR exceeding 400 lbs". StuRat (talk) 17:09, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

"Buckle into bed, kids, we'll be passing through [some state with such a law] tonight." :) 69.243.220.115 (talk) 21:03, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

The "motor vehicle" clause would prevent that for most beds, but maybe a vibrating or automatically adjusting bed could be said to have a "motor". StuRat (talk) 21:25, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

The transitive law defense would be good to remember for people without power seats.wow, surprised those two things were red links as of their typing 69.243.220.115 (talk) 22:21, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Because you typed [[power seats]], not [[power seat]]s. We've had an article on power seats since 2005. Nyttend (talk) 00:35, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

The UK does [1]. If the vehicle is fitted with a seat belt you are required to use it at all times while the vehicle is in motion, unless you are a delivery driver travelling less than 50 yards. The law assumes all passengers will use the available seat belts - it is a separate offense to carry more passengers than you have seats. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:22, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

So the answer to the question is "yes". The OP did not limit the "states" geographically. --ColinFine (talk) 21:16, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Are we talking about mobile homes or recreational vehicles? I don't think passengers are alllowed in mobile homes on the road, are they? Rmhermen (talk) 02:44, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Not unless you're Mel Gibson. Dismas|^(talk) 09:32, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Is it an urban myth that a driver of a new campervan / motorhome / RV "a couple of years ago", crashed after engaging the cruise control and going in the back to make a cup of tea? I tried to Google it and found several versions: it was a man or woman, it was in the UK or US, he or she sued the manufacturer or hire company for not explaining that it wasn't an autopilot. He or she won or lost. Alansplodge (talk) 20:44, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Urban legend, I'm afraid. Tevildo (talk) 21:56, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

I suspect that Homer Simpson did pretty much the same thing. D'oh! Astronaut (talk) 00:08, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

How about this for unambiguousness: Joe Camper drives his recreational vehicle in every one of the 50 states of the United States of America (having it shipped to Hawaii) and, in every single state, while his wife Jane is sleeping on the recreational vehicle's bed without wearing a seatbelt, Joe gets pulled over for speeding, and the police officer notices that Jane is not wearing a seatbelt while traveling in a recreational vehicle in the state. In which states does the officer say "I won't give you a ticket for your wife not wearing a seatbelt in the recreational vehicle, because we don't give non-drivers tickets for not wearing seatbelts in recreational vehicles while the recreational vehicle is in motion in this state."? Any states within the United States of America where an officer would say such a thing? In states where they don't issue tickets for not wearing seatbelts if the person is pulled over for some other offense and they can't then give a ticket for noticing people not wearing seatbelts, or in other words, in states where one can only get a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt when a police officer sees a person in the vehicle driving by without a seatbelt on, substitute the aforementioned situation of Joe speeding while Jane is sleeping with the situation of Jane clearly visible from the outside through a big window (but nowhere near big enough so Jane could ever somehow fall out) next to the recreational vehicle's bed and the officer sees Jane sleeping in the bed as the recreational vehicle drives by.69.243.220.115 (talk) 01:38, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Are you aware of any U.S. states that don't promote the "click it or ticket" policy?←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:24, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

No, but I was trying to curtail tangents without looking up 50 states' traffic law corpuses. 69.243.220.115 (talk) 02:51, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, the problem is, each state has its own traffic laws, so if you take your RV across state lines, it's a good idea to check what the laws say about it, if anything. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:18, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't have the source (an RV-oriented road atlas) with me, and it's at least a decade out of date in any case, but there are (or at least were) US states that did not require seat belts for non-driving adults. At the time, every state required that the driver be belted in, and that anyone under the age of 18 be belted in. --Carnildo (talk) 02:32, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Rubiks cube

im reading god's algorithm, i just curious what counts as a 'move' in rubiks cube? 203.112.82.2 (talk) 19:29, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

At God's Number is 20, the website announcing the finding that every position of a Rubik's Cube can be solved in twenty moves or less, it says

We consider any twist of any face to be one move (this is known as the half-turn metric.)

That is, one move is rotating a face 90 degrees clockwise, 90 degrees counter-clockwise, or 180 degrees either way. --Bavi H (talk) 20:30, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

What do the rules have to say about twists of fate?  :) -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 01:33, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

2nd Ward, Big Rapids, Michigan

According to his death certificate my great grandfather died in the 2nd Ward of the city of Big Rapids, Michigan, at the age of 67 years on Dec 24, 1872. How do I go about finding where exactly this area is in the city of Big Rapids. The certificate says he died of "erysipelas", whatever that is. Sounds like to me a doctor was in attendance at his death to be able to know the cause of death. He was an American Civil War veteran and was a very poor person at death. I am trying to figure out what potential cemetery he may be buried in. I am guessing in the city of Big Rapids someplace, maybe in the 2nd Ward. Where would I go for clues as to where he is buried?--Doug Coldwell ^talk 19:42, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

As far as locating the second ward, the best place to call is the City Hall of the city in question. Someone there can answer. --Jayron32 19:45, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

We have an article on erysipelas, Doug. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 20:11, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

The City of Big Rapids - Who Should I Call? page says "Literacy Information, Public Internet Access, Genealogy, Books, Children's Programs: Big Rapids Library and gives a phone number and email address. Alansplodge (talk) 22:12, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Or if you would rather proceed under your own steam, Mecosta County, Michigan: Family History & Genealogy, Census, Birth, Marriage, Death Vital Records & More (Big Rapids appears to be part of Mecosta County). There is also Mecosta County, MI Genealogy Forum, where you could post a query. Alansplodge (talk) 22:27, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

What excellent leads. Thanks a bunch!--Doug Coldwell ^talk 22:23, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Hope it works out - some guesswork from me as I'm in London! Alansplodge (talk) 22:29, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Michigan GenWeb for Mecosta County has an 1884 city directory with some local history and lists and maps of local cemeteries. Rmhermen (talk) 02:40, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for additional info. Very helpful.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 11:48, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Personal fashion shows

Some movies (like How to Marry a Millionaire) and TV shows (like I Love Lucy) from the 1950's featured a scene where shoppers went into a high-end fashion store and then sat while models paraded out to show each of the store's offerings. I haven't seen this in any recent movie or TV show, however. So, do they still do this, or does the large number of offerings these days make modelling each of them take too long and cost too much ? StuRat (talk) 21:18, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

That went the way of the dinosaur because whatever clothes they are modelling have long since ceased to be the point of these ... displays. It's all about the models themselves now. Hence the rise of the "supermodel" (what young girl ever aspires to be merely a "model" these days), who get paid humungous amount of money for imitating their conception of non-human entities whose shoulder blades are joined in the middle of their back, and for walking in the most unnatural and ungainly and disgustingly unattractive way they can possibly dream up in their wildest dystopian fantasies - all in the name of putting all the attention squarely on them, and completely off whatever garments they may happen to be wearing. The original idea was for the model to be the vehicle through which the clothes were displayed; now, the clothes are the vehicle through which the models are displayed. And people fall for it in their millions. (end of rant-like response) -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 22:35, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

More to the point, the in-store fashion parade was a traditional part of haute couture. In true haute couture such as that practiced at the House of Worth, only one copy of each item of clothing was originally made. Customers viewed the items as worn by a model and made their choice, and the designer then had his shop create a copy of each item ordered, custom-tailored to the buyer's exact measurements in colours that would suit her complexion. This has always been restricted to the very, very rich who could afford to spend the equivalent of $20,000 in our money on a simple day dress. I Love Lucy notwithstanding, the closest the average woman ever got to this was the in-store fashion show: the parade of models was just not done for women of Lucy Ricardo's class in real life. For one thing, even in the supposed good old days models were too expensive to waste on random retail buyers shopping for $30 dresses. --NellieBlyMobile (talk) 17:22, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the plot of that particular I Love Lucy episode, but, in general, her character was known for sneaking into places where she didn't belong, often by pretending to be somebody else. StuRat (talk) 17:26, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

So, why do designers hire models to take attention away from the garments? Because the garments themselves are so hideous? —Tamfang (talk) 17:35, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

The wife likes to watch fashion shows sometimes, and when they are truly about the fashions, the models all adopt an identical-looking strut and serious-looking facial expression for that runway display. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:56, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Of course they all have the same strut and severe expression because that's what they are instructed to do. The model who would prefer to smile doesn't get the gig ;-( Itsmejudith (talk) 19:39, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

But why are they so instructed? Doing anything in an unnatural way is a sure-fire way of putting the attention on you, and off whatever you're doing. Do the management actually want people to notice the clothes? -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 19:53, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Since they all do it that way, it's no big deal - and the audience is well-aware that that's what's up. The models all look and walk the same way, and the only difference between them is what they're wearing. That's the theory, anyway. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:56, 4 May 2012 (UTC)