Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2012 June 17

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June 17

Hundred of Onehunga

There are many references to the Hundred of Onehunga but no explanation as to what it actually was and how it originated — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.97.221.86 (talk) 04:19, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

"In 1848 the Hundred of Onehunga, one of six Hundreds in the Auckland area, was established by proclamation. This is based on a unit of local government used in England for centuries. The Wardens of the Hundred of Onehunga were responsible for the One Tree Hill reserve that remained unenclosed."[1] Clarityfiend (talk) 05:34, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

American celebrites who are only famous in America

Of course every country has people who are well-known in their country who are obscure elsewhere. There are French celebrities who are only famous in France, Russian celebrities who are only famous in Russia, Japanese celebrities who are only famous in Japan etc. But since American media and culture is very well-known and popular worldwide, many American celebrities are also well-known worldwide. However, who are good examples of American household names who are virtually unknown everywhere else, even in Canada or Mexico? Two people I can think of are Kim Kardashian and Billy Mays who are very well known in America but don't seem to be that famous elsewhere (I'm not sure if Mays is famous in Canada, although I think Kardashian is). Are they only household names in America? And who are other good examples of American household names who are obscure outside of America? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 05:56, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

We certainly know of the appalling Kardashian family here in Australia. Why we needed to be told about their despicable doings, I cannot fathom. To be even-handed, I make the same point about Ozzie Osborne and his tribe (UK), and Lara Bingle (Australia). -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 06:08, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

(ec) In Australia, the Kardashians are well known to popular culture via TV and silly magazines. I also know of Billy Mays, but he is probably less known to non-Interwebbers. I'd say the best place to look for what you want are major news anchors, commentators, talking heads and politicians; people who appear regularly on domestic television, but who are too topical to appeal to an international audience. Unfortunately, being outside America, I can't give you any examples of people I've never heard of. :) FiggyBee (talk) 06:17, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm an American, and couldn't have told you who Billy Mays was without looking it up. I don't know what's "despicable" about the Kardashians either, but that's not to say Jack is wrong; I just don't bother informing myself on such subjects. --Trovatore (talk) 06:23, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

(BY THE WAY: In case anyone wants to enlighten me on the latter point, please don't.) --Trovatore (talk) 06:23, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Baseball and American Football "stars" would be a likely chance of fitting the bill here. As an Australian, I can't think of the names of any current ones (I think Babe Ruth has retired), but I'll bet Americans can. HiLo48 (talk) 06:26, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

That's the obvious answer from people in the UK as well. Almost no-one in the UK has ever heard of anyone famous in the US for playing baseball or American football, and very very few will ever have heard of any American basketball players either. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:17, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The only American footbal player most South Africans could possibly name is OJ Simpson, but obviously not for his footbal career. In fact many would not even know that he played American football. Roger (talk) 08:50, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

FiggyBee's suggestions of those in the news industry and politics and HiLo's suggestion of athletes are probably spot on. It's hard for me to say since I'm an American, so I don't know who is or isn't popular outside the States. (It's not something that comes up in my conversations with my Germany-living brother) Billy Mays is/was likely unknown since either he mostly sold products that were sold predominantly to Americans or those products had different pitchmen in other countries due to language differences. Dismas|^(talk) 06:49, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The Kardashians seem to be well known in the UK and France too, judging by how often their shows are on TV. I agree with FiggyBee about news celebrities - I assume (or perhaps hope) someone like Glenn Beck would be relatively unknown. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:07, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Who? HiLo48 (talk) 07:30, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Glenn Beck. Since he's a political commentator, he's likely not well known outside the US. Or at least I hope he isn't. Hate to think his vitriol is escaping our borders. Dismas|^(talk) 07:36, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Be comforted. It hasn't splashed as far as this part of the UK. If you could tell me in return that you'd never heard of Katie Price, it would make my Sunday. Karenjc 07:43, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

I saw Katie Price on the cover of every tabloid and magazine in England a couple of months ago, and I had no idea who she was! Adam Bishop (talk) 07:56, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

I know that Price is a Page Three girl but that's only from Wikipedia. 99.9% of the American public would have no idea who she is. Dismas|^(talk) 08:40, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

We get The Daily Show in the UK so we get to laugh at Glenn Beck on a regular basis. --Michig (talk) 20:43, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

And likewise, I would hope you haven't heard of Australia's Andrew Bolt. HiLo48 (talk) 07:54, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you both! And no, I haven't. Karenjc 08:36, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

We know of Glenn Beck in Australia, but only because he's the poster boy for how insane American politics can be (edit; we've stopped being so smug about this since the rise of the afore-mentioned Blot). We don't actually get the benefit of Beck's wisdom on on our screens or radios. We're also vaguely aware of Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh, but couldn't pick them out in a lineup. On the other side of politics, Keith Olbermann is probably known only to dedicated USAphiles. I assume there are some actual grown-ups (the equivalent of Australia's Kerry O'Brien or Tony Jones) talking politics in the US though? We've never heard of them, because what they're talking about would make no sense and/or be of no interest to us. FiggyBee (talk) 07:54, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The phenomenon of someone assuming a celebrity in one country is also a celebrity in another country where they are in fact unknown could be called the Rula Lenska effect, after an actress known in Britain appeared in a US TV commercial in the 1970's as someone the viewer should recognize, to the bewilderment of US televiewers, spawning many late-night comedy sketches ridiculing her, thereby making her famous for her obscurity. The Kardashian celebutantes are widely disliked in the US, since their publicity agents just started out presenting them as persons famous for being famous. Yet their faces are on supermarket tabloids and magazines every month, along with supposed hints of which ones sweeties are cheating on them, and other tidbits many do not want to know. Players in sports not widely followed in a given country (cricket in the US, American football in UK) are good candidates for local fame, obscurity in other countries. Any sports player who participates in the Olympics as well as in his own country, and whose sport is played in many countries, like basketballer Michael Jordan in his prime, seems not to fit this. If folks outside the US are never exposed to Glen Beck, it is their good fortune. But with the internet anyone could have worldwide followers. A musician may well have have a worldwide following, with less localization of fame. Did US televangelists like Billy Graham become known in other countries through their local rallies or "crusades?" Edison (talk) 13:10, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

US dramas and comedies (both TV and film) play heavily in the UK, but entertainment, chat, or quiz programs usually aren't (and if they are, they're re-made in a local incarnation). So Britons have very little familiarity with (but may well have heard of) Letterman, Leno, Carson, Kimmel, O'Brien, or (perhaps ironically) Craig Ferguson. Regis Philbin, Kathy-Lee Gifford, Vanna White, Ryan Seacrest, Kelly Ripa, Bob Barker, and the cast of The View are virtually unknown. Britain doesn't get US daytime tv very much, so count out Susan Lucci. British tv mostly doesn't carry US journalism, so some Britons will have heard of Barbara Walters and Walter Kronkite, but few people would recognise Tom Brokaw or Stone Philips. And Britain doesn't get US TV segmented for ethnic or language groups (or shows only the most successful ones) so Don Francisco is totally unknown, and Brandy Norwood disproportionately unfamous. We see few US politicians beyond Presidents (and candidates for that job). Lastly, programs like Saturday Night Live and MADtv didn't run (or did somewhere in the lower reaches of the satellite program guide) so their cast members only register in the UK when they appear in movies. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 15:10, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The US presence on the Internet is so high that I often see mentions of US celebrities who I had no idea existed. The Kardashian family is one example. Had I not read about them on the Internet, I would never have been aware of their existence. Another good example is when I saw a post on the Failbook blog about Facebook posts between Skrillex and Deadmau5. It was the first time I had heard of either of them, and I had to infer from context that they are musicians. JIP | Talk 19:45, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Skrillex and Deadmau5 are more genre-obscure than geo-obscure, I'd say; whether you've heard of them depends more on your (and your associates') musical taste than location. FiggyBee (talk) 02:00, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I imagine there are a lot of examples among religious and business leaders. How about the supreme court judges? I'm aware they exist and might recognise a couple of the names from articles about US politics, but couldn't tell you anything about them (also, I thought there were 7, but I just checked and it turns out there are 9). Perhaps also some criminals/victims from high profile crimes? 81.98.43.107 (talk) 20:20, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

So, I guess Rodney King might be showing up in the main page news section since he'd possibly be known in other countries. He died today if anyone cares. Dismas|^(talk) 20:32, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

It becomes clear if one watches American shows like The Simpsons, which love to reference and feature American "celebrities", just how few of said people we in the UK have actually heard of! -- Necrothesp (talk) 20:56, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

You've only got to look at the questions we often get here on the ref desk. An OP will ask about some person, but not identify what they're notable for (actor, writer, pornstar, singer ...), their nationality, or anything else about them. The OP assumes that, because they are aware of and have some interest in this person, the whole world is aware of them. But how often do we have to ask them for more information about said person? To relate this to the current question, not all of these sorts of OPs are interested in American celebrities (who are little known elsewhere), but they seem to represent a sizeable proportion. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 22:05, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

I would say that American TV and radio personalities like David Letterman and Howard Stern are little known outside the USA. --Viennese Waltz 07:38, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Letterman's been on Australian TV for a number of years. He was clearly the model for Steve Vizard's early forays into television-land (in particular, Tonight Live with Steve Vizard 1990-93). I've heard of Howard Stern, but then, I'm paid to know these things. After all, I'm a Wikipedia editor. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 08:27, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

There's a lot of American TV shows that aren't shown widely in other countries, e.g. daytime soaps, game shows, and current affairs/news. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:00, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

A good example would be the reveal of the "elevator killer" in Steve Martin's film The Man with Two Brains. The joke was obviously that Merv Griffin was someone famous, but I'd never heard of him. --Nicknack009 (talk) 09:17, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Satire always depends on the audience understanding the reference. Merv Griffin was a famous creator of game shows as well as a talk show host. And it's not just the USA. Monty Python had endless references to seemingly obscure folk who would have been known very little or not at all outside the UK. One of the most obscure that I an recall is in Woody Allen's Sleeper in which he had a scientist saying that World War III had happened because "a man named Albert Shanker got hold of a nuclear weapon." That guy's name was little known outside New York City, never mind outside the USA. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:38, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I am really surprised anyone could be unfamiliar with Merv Griffin. He's as universally famous as Bob Newhart playing the Chimney Sweep in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Here's perhaps Griffin's most famous role, as Templeton the Rat, in Irwin Allen's animated classic, Fantasia.

Use of jet bridges by low cost airlines

Why do Ryanair and easyjet use jet bridges at Madrid and Barcelona when they don't at most of their other airports. 176.250.196.132 (talk) 14:03, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Some airports charge a separate fee for using an airbridge. Some force airlines to use airbridges - this seems to be the case at Alicante at least, which apparently Ryanair weren't happy about (ref). -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 14:34, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

This forum post has someone claiming to be from Ryanair (which naturally I can't verify) who says they have to use airbridges (jetways) at a list of Spanish airports. Note that Ryanair doesn't fly to Barcelona El Prat Airport but to Girona-Costa Brava Airport (which, in its inimitable style, it calls "Barcelona Girona"); that posting I found says they don't use an airbridge at Girona. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 14:40, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

What in the world is a jet bridge? Can't you folks at least link to the subject you are asking about? μηδείς (talk) 21:59, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

It appears the search function at Wikipedia is working. --Jayron32 01:08, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Here in America where God's English comes from we call them walkways. You would think people looking for a foreign technical term would at least try to be more clear. μηδείς (talk) 03:34, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Jetway is the term I've heard most consistently at American airports. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:37, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Why has law become a smaller portion of the US economy in the last 20-25 years?

A fact from this blog caught my eye:

"In the late 1980s, the legal services sector represented slightly more than 2% of GDP (the same percentage as in the mid-1970s). As of 2009, that figure had declined to 1.37%." http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/2011/11/back-to-basics.html

That seems like a huge drop in what would seem like a fairly stable industry. Why hasn't legal business kept anywhere near the same pace of growth as the overall economy?

Aewxoom (talk) 15:57, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

As you say, it is a stable industry, not a growth one. Commercial law you might expect to grow at roughly the same rate as the rest of the economy, but criminal law can be expected to grow and shrink in line with crime rates rather than the economy (in fact, crime rates tend to be inversely related to the economy). Crime rates in the US have dropped since the late 80's, I believe. --Tango (talk) 16:11, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi Tango, I considered that possibility but I know that in the US, the prison population has skyrocketed in the last 25 years and so has the volume of work in courts (a new prosecutor for every 500 arrests). I don't think a lack of work in criminal law explains this trend. Aewxoom (talk) 16:18, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The prison population has increased due to a change in sentencing policy, rather than an increase in crime, so I wouldn't read too much into that. I don't know what has happened to the volume of work in courts - you may be right, in which case my explanation may be wrong. --Tango (talk) 17:54, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

There is a fairly detailed article here, which argues that the legal sector did very poorly from around 1990 onwards, because the industry had matured and reached a kind of market saturation situation - people were purchasing all the legal services they needed so there was little opportunity for growth. No idea how accurate that is. 81.98.43.107 (talk) 20:06, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

I think longer sentences are the reason. Take your average petty criminal. In the bad old days, he'd be continuously arrested and released, engaging a defense lawyer each time (and causing prosecuting lawyers to go to work, too). Now, with three strikes laws and such, you might get a long prison sentence. After the conviction, there normally isn't much work for the defense lawyer, unless there is some reason to suspect that the sentence could be overturned, which is rare. Similarly, the prosecuting lawyers are typically "off the case" once the criminal convictions comes in. StuRat (talk) 07:08, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I personally doubt that the criminal courts are any less busy now than they were 30 years ago, and even if they are, I don't think they are a big enough part of the system to cause such a downturn. In Australia, barristers - who are the people who defend and prosecute people in court - make up only 5% of the legal fraternity, and only make 12% of their income from criminal cases; less than 1% of the 18 billion dollar income of the entire legal sector in 2008.[2] I imagine the percentage of the US legal landscape relating to criminality is similarly small. FiggyBee (talk) 09:57, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Number of lawyers per 1000 people in a country

I'm looking at two sets of data: p. 13 and 2） [3]

What accounts for the discrepancies between the same countries for these two sets of data? (I know the years may be different.)

Part 2 of my question. Does anybody have any insight into comparing between countries? Do some countries require a license lawyer to perform many functions that an unlicensed legal helper can do in other countries?

Aewxoom (talk) 16:09, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Different years, different definition of lawyer and different methodology resulting in different errors are probably the main contributing factors. This is an excellent example of why it is vital to use one source for all your data when making comparisons. --Tango (talk) 16:17, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. There is e.g. a stark discrepancy for Germany (1.34 vs. 2.7) which possibly is caused by either counting only "Rechtsanwälte", or by counting "Rechtsanwälte" and "Notare" (which perform many legal services, but do not represent people before courts). Alternatively, the higher number might include "Staatsanwälte" (public prosecutors), which are educated and qualified as lawyers, but are career civil servants. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 08:21, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Computer

Computer is operated by operating Language while operating system is made through programming Language .then how firstly when computer was made operations system would have been made ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rahulkapadiya (talk • contribs) 17:25, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The second paragraph of Booting summarizes how this is done, while the Boot loader section goes into more detail. Clarityfiend (talk) 17:43, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Early computers didn't use programming languages, but worked directly in assembly language. That is, they used the commands that were hard-coded into the processor's circuitry. The first programmable computer, Colossus, didn't even have an assembly language and you actually had to unplug wires and plug them in somewhere else in order to reprogram it. --Tango (talk) 17:50, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The word "then" in the OP's question indicates they see a paradox that they may have conceived thus:

• A computer needs an OS (Operating system)
• Operating systems are written in Programming language
• Programming language did not exist until there were computers

So here's the paradox: how was the operating system for the first computer made? Some clarification will make that paradox go away.

• A computer doesn't need a new OS every time it is programmed, but having one saves the programmer time.
• There are many programming languages and no one (except an OS programmer) cares which is used to write an OS.
• The first operating system on the first computer was just a mechanical switch labelled "ON/OFF".

A new paradox is that it took so long for programming languages to take root in the computer when they existed already before its invention to direct the behaviour of machines such as the Jacquard loom and the Player piano. DriveByWire (talk) 19:58, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Copyright Catalog Terminology

I am trying to determine whether the 1941 song Ay, Jalisco, no te rajes! by Manuel Esperon and Ernesto Cortazar was originally written for the 1941 film of the same name, [4] or if it had been written previous to its inclusion in that film. I have been able to locate a catalog of copyright entries from the library of congress [5]. The catalog lists the song, and then says "de la pelicula" which translates "of the film." Does anyone know exactly what a copyright catalog means when it says that a song is "of the film"? Is this absolute proof that the song was written originally for the 1941 film?--Jpcase (talk) 20:51, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

"From the film" might be a better translation, not that I can answer your question itself. μηδείς (talk) 20:56, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, "from the film". And the OP, or someone, asked pretty much the same question a week or so ago. There doesn't seem to be a lot of detailed info out there, regarding this song. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:02, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I asked this question on the Entertainment Reference Desk, but didn't get an answer, so I wanted to try here, before giving up. You're right though; unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much available info on the song, but my question doesn't require knowledge of the song to answer. I need to know what it means when a copyright says that a song is "from the film." Does anyone know?--Jpcase (talk) 02:09, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

There is no reason to believe that is a technical legal term "proving" anything about its first use or that it means that (at least according to current copyright law) only the film recording of the song itself is copyrighted. It probably simply was meant as a clarifying description for future archivists who might be looking for the copyrighted article. There's really no way to know other than from an artists whether the song was written before or after it was commissioned. But mine is the opinion of an educated adult, not a copyright lawyer or librarian. μηδείς (talk) 03:04, 18 June 2012 (UTC)