Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2014 October 14

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October 14

Antistatic straps

Still used on some older cars in Russia.

Antistatic straps attached to automobiles, discharging built-up static electricity to the ground, were a big thing in the 1960s and 1970s, but are less common today, allegedly because the rubber of modern car tires conduct electricity. When did this change take place and who was the inventor of (a) the straps, (b) the idea to make tires conductive? The article on tires contains many details from the history, but not this, as far as I can see. --LA2 (talk) 04:41, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

The rubber on my car tyres is not conductive (see below). I get a mild shock from the bodywork in dry weather. I've never tried antistatic straps. Are they still available? Dbfirs 06:42, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Google search suggests they might still be available, but this asserts that they are worthless. That might be why you don't see them anymore. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:24, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. Dry weather is so rare where I live that I can't try an experiment (until the next dry summer), but I suspect that a bit of wire trailing from the exhaust mounting or engine would be cheaper and more effective. Dbfirs 08:14, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

According to that article, the wire would have to maintain constant contact with the pavement. And although they didn't say this, what if the friction between wire and pavement itself causes a spark? Ka-boom! So much for that experiment! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:19, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

No, it would only have to have occasional contact with the road surface, and yes, the sparks would occur but they would be tiny and would not cause an explosion unless there was also a leakage of fuel, and I'd rather have a spark between the wire and the road than between me and the car door. Dbfirs 09:19, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Your car tires are electrically conductive because they contain carbon black to protect the rubber from light and conduct heat away. If you get zapped by your car, it is because you, not the car, have a buildup of static electricity, which gets discharged when you touch a large metallic object. 88.112.50.121 (talk) 09:23, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Can any of these statements be supported by references and written into Wikipedia? --LA2 (talk) 10:58, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

This BBC site suggests that the static is indeed generated between the person and the car seat, with the car tyres providing the earth route for the charge. If this is the case, then antistatic straps are completely useless because they are based on an incorrect analysis. Dbfirs 19:52, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

• I was thinking of these only a couple of weeks ago, for no reason I can ascertain. They were once very common down here, but I haven't seen one for at least 20 years. They supposedly helped prevent car sickness, but I haven't even heard of anyone being car sick for at least 20 years. Odd coincidence, that. (But I'm not around young kids much anymore, and they always seemed to be the main victims.) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:25, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Kids definitely still get travel sick. Just last week a student at my school threw up all over himself and another student on a bus trip. Mum's first response "Oh, he often gets sick on buses." And the straps never worked. HiLo48 (talk) 02:34, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Good to know for the future (when young children will re-enter my life). -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 01:56, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

The Grand Prix of South Molton

Whilst visiting the museum at South Molton I noticed a section in the history which mentioned that in the late 1980s,there were plans to build a Formula 1 circuit in the area, but it had to be stopped because of conservation problems. I've never heard of this at all, Yahoo brings up nothing and no-one at the museum or town council knew. Anyone got any more information-or is it just an April Fool for the museum that nobody noticed? Lemon martini (talk) 12:38, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

You could contact the museum, and ask them - they provide an email address for queries: [1] AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:48, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

This link (more words here) seems to give some credence to the idea's existence, though I can't access the report itself. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:50, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Aha. 1989: "Plans to build a Formula One race track at Johnstone Moor near South Molton are rejected by planners as being 'out of keeping' with the area." North Devon District Council may be able to track down more information. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:59, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

How to complain against Wikipedia's masters in another language

Dear users,
I would like to complain against some admins in the Hebrew Wikipedia.
Unfortunately, I believe they behave wrong because there is no supervision upon theme.
How can I do that?
Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.229.1.169 (talk) 22:17, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

This is the English-language Wikipedia. We have no control over what goes on regarding other Wikipedia's - they are all autonomous. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:19, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

I think Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard is the place for that, on the English one. Maybe looking for the Hebrew translation of that will help. Or asking this question at their Reference Desk. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:24, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

I wish to complain against the administration of the Hebrew Wikipedia. Who decides who is a stewards there? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.229.1.169 (talk) 22:47, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

You would have to ask the Hebrew language Wikipedians. The English language Wikipedia has no control over the other language versions of Wikipedia. Each language is pretty much independent, so this is the wrong place to ask what to do about the Hebrew language Wikipedia. The correct place would be the Hebrew language Wikipedia. Ian.thomson (talk) 00:04, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Although the Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard suggested above doesn't have an interwiki link to a corresponding page in the Hebrew WP (and at present its only RefDesk is Language), there's an equivalent to the Wikipedia:FAQ/Administration which you can access by clicking on the interwiki link עברית (between Bahasa Indonesia and Lëtzebuergesch). It's likely that there are mechanisms similar to those in the English-language WP for overseeing the doings of editors and administrators. If you read Hebrew, start there. If not, I'm curious how you know about misbehavior and perps in a foreign-language project.-- Deborahjay (talk) 19:54, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Police impersonating soldiers

I don't know whether this happens in other countries, but here in Australia, whenever there's a police graduation ceremony on TV, they're regimented just like an army. They march in and out, they stand to attention, they salute when receiving their personal citations or whatever it is they're given, etc. But, as far as I'm aware, this is the only occasion on which they are ever expected to impersonate an army and behave like soldiers. Does this happen elsewhere, and what is the purpose of this procedure?

(I can't bring myself to believe that anything that happened in the Police Academy (franchise) series of cinematic entertainments actually resembled anything that happens in real life, so probably best not to use that as any kind of reference.) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:22, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Not unique. Check out this "troop" of Mountie graduates. In the east, they sometimes pretend to be rioters, to justify others showing up to play battlefield soldier. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:36, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

Police funeral services can look that way too. Police also use military-style titles such as sergeant, captain, etc. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:02, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

In the U.S., at least This public discussion has become a major talking point. It's somewhat related to the OP. --Jayron32 02:07, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

OR here, but I think it's a pretty reasonable bet that police forces use militaristic iconography and ranks and cultural trappings because they are a) groups of people b) that pursue through means up to and including violence c) the will of the state. Drill and regimentation and strict rank hierarchies aren't part of the military just because of tradition (though it's a big part); they're seen as a good way of instilling the concepts of order and discipline into the entire group. It's interesting that what wikipedia calls "the first modern police force" actively avoided all of this for PR reasons; see Police#Metropolitan_police_force 75.140.88.172 (talk) 06:35, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

A quick google reveals this and this so they certainly do some practice. Richard Avery (talk) 07:18, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

• I can't help but compare this apparently irrelevant pretend militarism with the equally irrelevant "concerned and caring" approach they adopt when attending horrendous crime or accident scenes. When interviewed, they come out with such pearls as "This is an absolute tragedy" (as if such an idea hadn't already occurred to us), and "Our thoughts and prayers are with the family of the victims". When did they become social commentators? Where did they learn that uttering vacuous platitudes takes the place of hard-nosed police work? And sometimes they become paternalistic school marms, like when they catch too many speeding/drunk/drug drivers over a holiday period and respond by announcing "The message just isn't getting through". That might read like an admission of failure on their part, but it's always spoken as if the whole of society (other than the police themselves) is being royally ticked off by these brave defenders of the peace for daring to contain wrong-doers. How come the teensy proportion of wrongdoers is taken as representative of the entire community? Where did they learn that their role involves setting the moral agenda for the community? Do the police forces elsewhere engage in these strange behaviours that have nothing to do with police work? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 08:22, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Is there actually an answerable question there, or is that just a rant? --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 19:19, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

I concede that parts of it may resemble a rant, but I'm genuinely interested in knowing whether these (what I consider to be) unpolicelike behaviours are confined to Australia or are more widespread. My final question is the one to focus on.

I also concede that my question has broadened from "police impersonating soldiers", but that's far from unprecedented here. And it's in my nature to always gravitate towards (ascend to?) a bigger picture. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:46, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Lots of organisations do regimentation to ensure standards are kept up. For instance the training of nurses and their organization is regimented to a certain extent. Dmcq (talk) 21:32, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Here [2] is some firemen that in your words would be impersonating the military. Dmcq (talk) 21:41, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

An unsourced claim in this thread on Yahoo Answers says that only 27 out of 45 police forces in the UK still include drill in their training. Perhaps they think that it instils discipline and teamwork, or it's so that policemen can look smart when they have to. The only time that I can think of when British police actually march is at the National Service of Remembrance at The Cenotaph, Whitehall, when a contingent of one officer from each force joins the march past. I do recall that during the 1984 miners' strike, a squad of policemen was marched into position with their riot shields like Roman legionaries, but these kind of tactics were later judged to have been more of a provocation than anything else, and I haven't seen them repeated since. It's interesting that Robert Peel went out of his way to make his first Metropolitan Police officers look like civilians rather than soldiers, issuing them with fashionable tail coats and top hats rather than the military uniforms used by the Gendarmes across the Channel, which would have been an affront to the libertarian Londoners. Alansplodge (talk) 18:12, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

So it is a dying practice. Thanks, Alan. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 01:54, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

On one small island nation, perhaps. I'd not generalize that, though. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 17:52, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

"One small island nation" that happened to create the largest empire in the history of the world, was the womb of the world language, and founded law and justice institutions still practised worldwide, including the Westminster parliamentary system and the modern police force. Some small island nation, that. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:36, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, and in 2014, it's hard to see that policing policies from that small island nation, regardless of its wonderful and powerful history, are particularly influential or even indicative of practices in the rest of the world. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 20:41, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Well maybe not, it was just an example. However, there are frequent exchanges between UK police and their colleagues in the various Commonwealth countries (the original question was about Australia), so ideas still get spread around, even if it's not the one-way-street that it used to be. Alansplodge (talk) 08:48, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

French gendarmes, whose role is policing, actually are soldiers. The Italian Carabinieri and Spanish Guardia Civil are similar, I think. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:59, 18 October 2014 (UTC)