Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2015 May 20

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May 20

Virginity taboo in the West

Why do western cultures often see being a virgin a taboo. To the point of using the term virgin as an insult. That is despite Christianity for which many western cultures originate advocating for centuries no sexual relationships before marriage. Even if that results in life long celibacy. In fact, Catholic priests (not sure about other denominations) prohibit any sexual activity at all (pre-pubescent boys, I know, I know but lets not get into that one bit OT)

And also, why does this term tend to be used against men more than women. Do other cultures have such stigma for virgins? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.218.237.191 (talk) 10:41, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Many teenagers cannot hold livable jobs, cannot drink or smoke, and cannot afford their own house or car, but sex is something that they have (some) access to, are often told to stay away from, and potentially the most fun of those marks of adulthood. That doesn't make it right (sexual activity and personal maturity are about as related as one's ability to ride a bike and one's hair style), but immature people (teens or adults) view adulthood in terms of the things they have (house, car, babies) rather than responsibilities they put up with (mortgage, car payments, whiny brats). In some ways, many people don't grow up after high school, they just adjust their "class schedule" in a way that resembles mature adulthood.

Hell, a lot of retail customers don't seem to have grown up since elementary school, they just throw the tantrums at the employees instead of their parents. Ian.thomson (talk) 11:35, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Where did you get the idea that virginity is a "taboo"? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:25, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Maybe from that old (and not very funny) joke: "What's the definition of a virgin? A six year old who hasn't been fucked very much". I'd say the OP is using the word "taboo" inappropriately. That usually refers to things that must not be touched or places that must not be visited or actions that must not be performed. The state of virginity is none of these. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:17, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

No, it's quite the opposite. That's what makes it "uncool", at least for kids. High school has a reputation for being where they put aside childish things. Only babies who are afraid of their mommy getting mad don't drink, smoke, fuck, swear or use the right social media site, at least according to the cool kids.

After we put aside those childish things, the pressure is less acute and direct, but you may notice all the previously various advertising in the world seems to only repeat "OBEY", "CONSUME" and "MARRY AND REPRODUCE". The cool dudes are gone, and THIS IS YOUR GOD now. Sex equals kids, eventually, and kids require stuff, which requires employment. Single people are a passive danger to the economy, and virgins are more likely to be single. No harm done in sacrificing them, even if it doesn't actually bring a bountiful harvest. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:13, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Girls aren't held to the same standards, because they're traditionally not expected to "man up" and bring home the bacon. Googling "slut vs stud" finds much more written about the double standard. I'll let you find your own piece on that, and just single out this story, because it's more interesting. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:21, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

There is a ginormous difference between "uncool" and "taboo". Things that are "taboo" are "forbidden" and often illegal. There's no law against virginity. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:34, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Not a written law, but in El Salvador (geographically "the West") and other places, an expected rite of passage. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:06, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

That doesn't make virginity "taboo". The OP is misunderstanding the word. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:26, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

I don't know. If your dad, uncles, older brothers and friends say having something precludes you from being a man, it seems like the sort of thing men aren't allowed to have. There are fathers, fathers and fathers, but then there are fathers. Their house, their rules. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:38, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

That doesn't qualify virginity as a "taboo", but merely something to be lost eventually, via a "rite of passage" or whatever. And that sounds more like something some primitive jungle tribe would do, not something that would be part of the typical American upbringing. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:43, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

The Cracked article noted several All-American boys, like Ben Franklin, JFK and Oliver Stone, paying to lose it. It's almost as if it made them cooler or something. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:58, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Speaking of ginormous... InedibleHulk (talk) 23:55, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

As for Christianity, that's been going the way of the dodo for a while. But fear not, there are still more worrisome things. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:17, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

"If you follow Jesus, you already have a pretty good idea what giving it all away looks like." InedibleHulk (talk) 22:21, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

I just noticed nobody has linked taboo yet. DON"T CLICK IT! InedibleHulk (talk) 23:52, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Very funny. Like I said, a "prohibition", specifically a prohibition of an action. Being a virgin is not an action. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:22, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

The first sentence of a Wikipedia lead is well and good, but also see the "has been somewhat expanded" part of it, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:28, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

A taboo is the prohibition of an action. No action is required to be a virgin. You're born that way. And no action is required to stay a virgin, either. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:32, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Is Nazism an action? Is pedophilia? Or single motherhood? There are other generally taboo subjects. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:52, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Maybe it's the action of talking about or identifying with these nouns that's taboo, not the nouns themselves. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:53, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Those subjects are certainly not taboo. Not as subjects of discussion, anyway. You'll find vast amounts of wordage about all of them. But actually engaging in child sexual abuse or kiddie porn is a no-no. So, by the way, are murder, rape, bank robbery, kidnapping, drink driving, tax evasion, speeding, lying, being a dick, being a racist bigot, being a homophobe, having foul breath or body odour, and worst of all, being a bore. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 07:24, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

It's the "being a" sort that being a virgin falls under. Being is an action, though a passive one. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:36, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Existing is not an action. Passive is the opposite of active. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:17, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Be is a verb. It's not something the person that's being tries to do, but it still happens. The first sort of passive. The opposite of active is inactive. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:07, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Within a given context, passive and inactive are equivalent. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:15, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, sometimes. Sometimes hot and cool are, too. English is notorious for casually screwing its (not it's) users. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:38, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

• Maybe we should have an RfC? I could talk about teaching people how to masturbate and hire prostitutes, or having advised them to try heterosexual sex when they were exclusively homosexual. I just wouldn't want to go into detail unless that is the agenda here. If we're just looking for the word, and it's not a religious choice, I would think pitiful for college grads would be a lot better than taboo. We did just have a discussion on the fact that the purpose of college is for people to lose their virginity. μηδείς (talk) 01:01, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Not just that. Also fulfills OBEY and CONSUME obligations. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:12, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Repairing veneer on an electric guitar

I have an Epiphone Dot semi-hollow-bodied electric guitar - like this one. The top is laminated maple with a "vintage sunburst" finish - a graduated, transparent colour leaving the wood grain visible. While modifying the electronics, I was clumsy with a drill and knocked off a small piece of the finished veneer, about two centimetres by a centimetre and a half, but irregularly shaped, between the output jack and the tone knobs. It broke off in one piece and I was able to retrieve it and glue it back in place, but because of the way it broke there's a slight gap, only a couple of millimetres, between one edge of the broken piece and the rest of the veneer, through which you can see the unfinished wood, and there are visible cracks. Any suggestions on how to repair it a bit less obtrusively? --Nicknack009 (talk) 12:17, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Fortunately, such a repair is less likely to affect the sound than in an acoustic guitar. Unfortunately, I doubt if the repair can ever be made invisible. Replacing the entire veneer might be the only way. Or, if you have the money, you could replace the guitar, and just use this one for practice/backup. StuRat (talk) 15:21, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

It's got character now. People are paying good money to by brand-new, factory-fresh guitars that have been "artifically" aged.[1] You now own one that has legitimate aging on it. --Jayron32 16:05, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

I think replacing the entire veneer might be a little drastic. If it was a solid, opaque colour I could just use wood filler and paint. As it is, I'll just have to resign myself to it having character. It's probably something nobody notices but me anyway.

Oh yes, the peculiar fashion for deliberately ruining perfectly good instruments. It's apparently called "relic'ing". Here's a service offering to put your guitar through not only physical but psychological abuse. --Nicknack009 (talk) 17:18, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Nothing as bad as Jimi Hendrix did to his, I hope. StuRat (talk) 18:18, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Best website to find new friends from other countries

Hi, I'm a philatelist who love to collect new stamps from different countries. Can anyone suggest some good online ways for finding new friends from other countries who are interested in philately other than facebook (which only allows to befriend people you know well)..??--Joseph 14:52, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Maybe contact These people? --Jayron32 15:57, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

What about https://www.postcrossing.com/ ? -- Metrophil44 (talk) 16:51, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

I've made plenty of friends here: http://www.sendsomething.net/ :) 202.153.41.162 (talk) 19:23, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia isn't bad. I don't believe in online "friends", but had some fun (and productive) international chats. You might try Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Philately. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:16, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Or check out their participants list. It's not stalking or soliciting if you're friendly about it. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:20, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

You mention Facebook. In fact, you do not need to know people at all to start a group there, so there's no stopping you from making a philately group - or joining one already existing (I assume there are several). Many groups are closed, but only in the sense that you need to ask to join, which in turn allows you to follow and post threads. Our WikiProject is not the place to solicit friendships. Matt Deres (talk) 17:12, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

ICQ.com is a good site. I used to be a moderator for the Japan room there. Also, www.sharedtalk.com is good, too - this is exclusively for language learners and there are not many rooms, but it's good to meet people on there. Both sites are free, and both allow private chat. KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (もしもし！) 11:42, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

How long was the IRT Third Avenue Line?

I wondered how long this line was, but I can't find the length in the article. -- Metrophil44 (talk) 16:36, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

• Given the longest the train run was from City Hall (Manhattan) to the Bronx Zoo, it was less than 14.1 miles, which is the slightly more circuitous route one can drive, which takes more east and west jogs than the train up 3rd would have. See this at Google Maps. For a better number, contact the MTA and ask for the number to the museum curator, who will certainly know. If you're in NYC, call 311 and ask for the main MTA directory or museum number. μηδείς (talk) 00:35, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

• As the linked page says, the line used to run south to South Ferry and north to Gun Hill 241st St., not as Medeis indicates. I haven't found a source for the actual length but have asked a knowledgeable friend. Stay tuned. --174.88.135.200 (talk) 21:27, 22 May 2015 (UTC), corrected 21:30, 22 May 2015 (UTC).

Then you simply use google maps and find the distance from South Ferry to 241st and Gun Hill. (Given 240 turns into Gun Hill Rd, this probably means somewhere by Manhattan College. This is not rocket science, unless you want an exact number, in which case call the MTA museum (which is also not rocket science). μηδείς (talk) 03:08, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

• You can reach the New York Transit Museum at 718-694-1600. The MTA is a state agency, so 311 may be clueless. —Nelson Ricardo (talk) 04:32, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

I mentioned 311 because they not only might have the museum number, as I know it's in the five boroughs, but they would definitely have a main or directory number for the MTA. μηδείς (talk) 18:52, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks for your tips! I think I'll try calling the MTA, but this might be a bit tricky regarding this would my first actual conversion with someone speaking English as their first language, and I can't speak English that good, but well, I'll try it. -- Metrophil44 (talk) 21:10, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind placing the call for you myself, Metrophil44, if necessary. What exactly is your aim? Do you need a written source for an article? Is a number quoted over the phone good enough? μηδείς (talk) 21:59, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Using "accumulate" as a noun

moved, please answer at below link
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Can we use "accumulate" as a noun? For example in a phrase like "shifting two years' worth of accumulate". I know the noun form of accumulate is accumulation, but I rather want something along the lines of precipitate (which can be used as both verb and noun, despite the existence of precipitation). Because accumulation tends to emphasise on the process of things getting accumulated rather than the things themselves. 202.153.41.162 (talk) 19:19, 20 May 2015 (UTC) This would be an excellent Q for the Language Ref Desk. StuRat (talk) 19:23, 20 May 2015 (UTC) @StuRat: Thanks, posted it there. Can we keep both threads going, so that whoever doesn't see it there responds here? 202.153.41.162 (talk) 19:28, 20 May 2015 (UTC) No, we're not supposed to do that, as it leads to people answering in one place, then seeing the same Q in the other place, then wondering why their post was deleted (by assuming it's the same spot). StuRat (talk) 19:39, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

• Please respond at thread on the language desk here - [2]. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:52, 20 May 2015 (UTC)