Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2015 May 30
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May 30
editOrigins of Profiterole
editYes all, there is a disturbance in the Force at Profiterole! Some IP editors have been (over the last year or more) swapping it back and forth between Italian and French origins. This seems to have been going on since at least April 2014. Apparently it was invented by "Chef Popelini that worked for Catherine De Medici from TUscany". Anybody know the 'Truth'? 220 of Borg 05:11, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- Reminds me of the long-running debate about the origin of the Pavlova - New Zealand or Australia? Anyway, the "truth" (whatever that is) is less important at WP than what can be verified from reliable sources. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries]
- Likewise. Perhaps invented is the wrong word. 'Popularized' is probable better, as the chances that nobody up to then, had not mixed these ingredient together to create a profiterole is laughable. It is like saying that John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich invented the sandwich when all he's household did was give the name sandwich to two slices of bread with a filling. Hardly new in even the 1600's -long before he was born.--Aspro (talk) 16:28, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- As noted above. Find a reliable source. Cite it. If different stories are told by different reliable sources, cite them all. --Jayron32 16:37, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- Note that for food recipes, it's not that unlikely that two people will come up with a similar recipe at about the same time, independently. This is because there are maybe a billion people in the world creating new recipes (I'm one of them). If a billion people were working on inventions in any other field, you'd expect lots of duplicate inventions there, too. StuRat (talk) 19:03, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- Oh dear, I was hoping for some reliable sources!
The bit I quoted seems to be in the vein of verbal history or "urban legend" sourced on the page to a blog. So I will likely remove it, if I can't find a reliable source for it. 220 of Borg 01:47, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- Oh dear, I was hoping for some reliable sources!
- The picture at top right of the article don't look like any profiterole I've ever seen. More of a choux bun to my mind. DuncanHill (talk) 01:50, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- Ah-ha, I thought, Larousse Gastronomique will have the definitive answer. Which it... doesn't. It says nothing about the origin of the pastry itself, but does note that "the name comes from the word profit and originally meant a small gratuity or gift." (2009 edition, page 836) Presumably the French word profit. Doesn't look like an Italian diminutive ending. --Shirt58 (talk) 05:02, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Shirt58: Do you have: Juillet, Claude (1998). Classic Patisserie: An A–Z Handbook. Butterworth-Heinemann. ISBN 0-7506-3815-X? That's used as a source on Choux pastry. 220 of Borg 05:56, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- No, I'm afraid not. (I have very few cookery-related books, as generally I don't use recipes. I've never used Larousse Gastronomique for cooking, I just browse it for enjoyment. And in case I might come across something that doesn't have a Wikipedia article.
)--Shirt58 (talk) 07:07, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- Well, there's an 'important' question I never asked answered! Très bien! (Apparently 'Manchette' means 'cuff') 220 of Borg 13:27, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- Well, there's an 'important' question I never asked answered! Très bien!
- No, I'm afraid not. (I have very few cookery-related books, as generally I don't use recipes. I've never used Larousse Gastronomique for cooking, I just browse it for enjoyment. And in case I might come across something that doesn't have a Wikipedia article.
- @Shirt58: Do you have: Juillet, Claude (1998). Classic Patisserie: An A–Z Handbook. Butterworth-Heinemann. ISBN 0-7506-3815-X? That's used as a source on Choux pastry. 220 of Borg 05:56, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) @DuncanHill: Good point. Does this, Cream Puff, look closer? It's used on List of pastries. 220 of Borg 05:08, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- Ah-ha, I thought, Larousse Gastronomique will have the definitive answer. Which it... doesn't. It says nothing about the origin of the pastry itself, but does note that "the name comes from the word profit and originally meant a small gratuity or gift." (2009 edition, page 836) Presumably the French word profit. Doesn't look like an Italian diminutive ending. --Shirt58 (talk) 05:02, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- The picture at top right of the article don't look like any profiterole I've ever seen. More of a choux bun to my mind. DuncanHill (talk) 01:50, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- Well - a bit more, but either that's a tiny plate or it's a huge profiterole. And I'd expect a profiterole not to gape. DuncanHill (talk) 10:28, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- De gustibus non est disputandum, a profiterole is a globe-shaped pâte à choux filled with some sort of creme filling. The exact type of cream filling and method of putting it inside the globe are not specified, except by pedants who like to make themselves seem superior by claiming their method of making them is the only true way to make them. --Jayron32 00:05, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- A small such ball, according to OED and every baker's, supermarket, and restaurant I've ever seen offering profiteroles for sale. If it's big enough that you'd sell singly then it's a choux bun, or an elephant's foot, or something like that. DuncanHill (talk) 12:38, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- De gustibus non est disputandum, a profiterole is a globe-shaped pâte à choux filled with some sort of creme filling. The exact type of cream filling and method of putting it inside the globe are not specified, except by pedants who like to make themselves seem superior by claiming their method of making them is the only true way to make them. --Jayron32 00:05, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- Well - a bit more, but either that's a tiny plate or it's a huge profiterole. And I'd expect a profiterole not to gape. DuncanHill (talk) 10:28, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- It has the role of making a small bun into a large profit. (I should stick to WP:RFD, I think). Si Trew (talk) 20:27, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
James Earl Jones tour of "Mice and Men,"
editWhile I was at Purdue doing graduate study, sometime in the period from 1964 to 1968, I saw James Earl Jones and his father, Robert Earl Jones, give a very moving performance of "Of Mice and Men" in an auditorium on the Purdue campus. I see no reference to such a tour in any of the information in Wickipedia (James_Earl_Jones), (List_of_James_Earl_Jones_performances,)and other links. It would be interesting to see such information in an article.
Also, I am not sure if this is the correct venue for asking this question. I had a great deal of difficulty finding a place to make this comment. It would be nice to have clearer information as to how to do this and other things. There are so many links that it is hard to find the appropriate link. Please clarify. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.78.81.117 (talk) 21:57, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- That would be the Entertainment Desk. StuRat (talk) 22:23, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- No, the Ent. Desk is for asking entertainment related general knowledge questions. In order to point out issues with a particular article, the information should be put on the talk page for the article in question. So pointing out something that is missing from James Earl Jones should go on Talk:James Earl Jones. Dismas|(talk) 22:38, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- I assume they want us to confirm, with sources, the details of the performance. Once that info is provided, then it would be time to change the article, either directly, or by leaving the info on the talk page for others to do the update. StuRat (talk) 22:55, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- No, you are wrong and Dismas is correct. The searching out of sourced information on this topic should have been conducted on the talk page of the article. --Viennese Waltz 07:37, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- A performance at a university is rarely considered important enough to single out in an article, even if it does involve his parent ("Darth, I am your father"). Clarityfiend (talk) 23:07, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- I assume they want us to confirm, with sources, the details of the performance. Once that info is provided, then it would be time to change the article, either directly, or by leaving the info on the talk page for others to do the update. StuRat (talk) 22:55, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- Not important enough for it's own article, certainly, but a mention of it in the James Earl Jones article would make sense, if it can be confirmed, that is. StuRat (talk) 02:02, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- The performance was reported in The Kokomo Tribune. If someone thinks it should be added to the article, go ahead and do so. John M Baker (talk) 17:31, 31 May 2015 (UTC)