Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2017 August 19

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August 19

How exactly do I contribute to society by saving money in the bank?

Normally someone gets paid because they work in a job, i.e. they contribute to society. I get paid by saving money in a bank as the bank pays interest on my savings. What exactly am I being paid for? It doesn't feel that I'm doing anything to better society.

The bank lends the money I deposit to other people. That enables them to buy things they otherwise couldn't afford... in the near term. But ultimately they have to pay back the debt plus interest, so they can actually afford less in the long term. Is it just that I'm being paid to satisfy people's impatient desires? It doesn't seem that I'm contributing to long-term economic growth, and it seems that I may even be hurting it.

I don't know anything about economics. PeterPresent (talk) 03:07, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

The loans from the bank typically are used to buy stuff, which in turn goes to to the company that produces stuff, which pays salaries, etc. See: trickle down economics→ Supply-side economics. — 2606:A000:4C0C:E200:D4EC:691A:1EDC:835D 2606:A000:4C0C:E200:D4EC:691A:1EDC:835D (talk) 03:30, 19 August 2017 (UTC) - P.s: there must be a better link, but I don't know what it is.

Savings are supposed to be there for you when you need them. Presumably this helps society by not having to bail you out of a jam. Banks are required to have a certain proportion of savings on hand to make loans. Perhaps the idea is that there is an optimal savings rate for individuals, banks and society that will even out economic fluctuations. But one wonders if that rate is consistent/compatible between the three. Abductive (reasoning) 04:17, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

I get the impression that the economics is complicated. I have a theory: by choosing to save money in the bank, I am doing my part to lower the interest rate slightly, just like choosing to sell a good is doing my part to lower that good's price slightly (typically explained in terms of a supply and demand diagram, and an increase in supply). Now, somehow, the reduced interest rate is good for the economy, and that's how I contribute to society. I say "somehow" because I am hazy on that part, but it does seem to be implied by the IS curve. PeterPresent (talk) 04:38, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Btw, if you deposit your excess cash in my bank account, I'd be glad to spend it all in order to help the local economy. — 2606:A000:4C0C:E200:D4EC:691A:1EDC:835D (talk) 05:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

One error in the OP's and the first couple of responders' thinking is that loans issued by banks are solely for personal consumption. These types of loan indeed do not contribute a whole lot to collective wealth. However, a larger portion of the money deposited in banks is normally loaned to businesses for investment, which is essential to economic growth. Money loaned for the purchase of real estate also helps to increase the collective wealth, by increasing the housing stock and the quality of buildings in a given location. Now, there is always a possible downside, because such loans can also contribute to speculative bubbles. However, in a properly regulated capitalist economy, the saving rate is considered a major contributor to economic growth and prosperity, as savings that are recycled into the economy by banks contribute to ensuring that funds that are not immediately required are put to a more effective use than they would be if they were simply kept stuffed in a mattress somewhere, to use a common image. Because your act of depositing money in a bank helps the collectivity get richer, you receive a benefit, in the form of interest (or a share of profits, depending on the banking model). Xuxl (talk) 13:46, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

The (wildly simplified) function of a lending bank is financial intermediation. It collects funds from those with a surplus, and directs it via loans to those with a shortage. For the borrower, this allows her to invest or consume now, without having to first save up the money. For the depositor, it provides a safe place where funds may attract interest (i.e., unearned) income. The contribution to society is the redistribution of resources (money) from places of plenty to places of scarcity. In other words, facilitating supply and demand by way of a trustworthy (stop snickering) intermediary.

The time value of money assumes that money today (cash in hand) is worth X, and that money tomorrow (next year, etc) is worth X + some additional amount. If today’s $100 earns 2% interest, today's value of that $100 in 12 months time is $102. In reverse, borrowing $100 today at 5% requires repayment of $105 next year (retail borrowers pay more than retail lenders – that is, depositors – earn). The bank takes the 3% differential as its compensation for assuming the risk, and if it gets the calculation correct, that becomes its profit (after expenses, taxes, etc).DOR (HK) (talk) 16:34, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Extreme value discount on Vintage Antiques Roadshow

This just piqued my curiosity. I was watching the Antiques Roadshow, in the new format they call "Vintage (city name)". They've been doing this the past year or so. They recycle an old Antique Roadshow show, broadcasting an episode from, say, 2002, and after each appraisal they show the value it was given then, and then what it's worth as of 2017, with two forms of fanfare music: one signals if it's gone up, and the other down (and an up or down icon next to the 2017 price). It's hooked me. Sometimes the items may change significantly in value, but one I saw the other day (Vintage Charlotte, broadcast 7/31/17) really requires explanation. It was an appraisal of a c. 1820 American silk Militia flag, with an embroidered eagle, 13 stars, "death before dishonor" banner, etc. Whoops. I wrote this but I stopped to try to see if I could target it better and actually you can watch the appraisal yourself: here. My question is if anyone knows why this might have gone from being appraised at $75,000 – $85,000 in 2002, to $8,000 in 2017. It's highly unusual for a historical artifact to diminish in value by an order of magnitude. Consistently watching the show, I can tell you this is unusual, and also that they have given explanation for such extremes in the past (such as for an artwork, that it was discovered to be a fake, or that a huge trove of some type of item was found so the marketplace was flooded) but they provide no explanation here.--67.244.114.239 (talk) 14:26, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

As a long-term fan of Antiques Roadshow myself, it's not unusual for the expert to comment that, a few years ago such an item would be worth £xxx but in today's market it's worth £xx. The market can rise as well as fall, and to an extent if you buy an antique you are taking a gamble on resale value. --TammyMoet (talk) 19:07, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

We may never know without contacting both experts. Some possibilities:

• Mistakes. One or both experts might have messed up.

• Faded colors. The flag has most of the colors faded away entirely, especially blues, leaving the top banners virtually unreadable, and this might affect price. Perhaps the first expert didn't account for this, while the 2nd did.

• Supply versus demand. In a small market, even a minor change in either can dramatically affect the price. StuRat (talk) 20:45, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I once priced a rare book at Amazon; the asking price was $400.00 Since I had two copies, I offered mine for $375 plus express shipping. There was a price war, and we got into the $100 range when others entered the market, last I checked the book is selling for $20-$40, and I have withdrawn mine from sale. This seems to be a very typical effect with Amazon. Many more books are being listed. Every time I go to the library I see at least one person with a laptop and ISBN scanner looking for bargains. I can't compete on that scale. Likewise, almost all the used CD and DVD storefronts I know of suffered a crash in prices a few years back, and they are out of business. At one point they were offering $0.10 for items which the year before would have gotten $3-$10. Here are a few articles on crashes in used car prices and Elvis memorabilia which illustrate the same principle. μηδείς (talk) 18:25, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

• Have you considered that it might just be a typo for $80,000? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:38, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Volatility (finance) is, I believe, the correct term here. The market for rare, unique, and collectable items is highly volatile. --Jayron32 14:23, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Based on what the OP wrote, if volatility was the issue, they would have explained it. It would have made interesting content. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:45, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Account

How do I delete my account? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumpaskid (talk • contribs) 16:47, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

You can't. Just stop using it. 92.8.219.206 (talk) 17:27, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

It's not possible to delete it, because the edits you made could not be attributed. This article may help with a solution: WP:FAQ. Also this: WP:Courtesy vanishing. Akld guy (talk) 21:13, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Bearing in mind that the OP's account is most likely not the one he's talking about. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:18, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

He/she said "my account". What do you mean? Akld guy (talk) 03:27, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Semis

Why do semis "hop" a little when they start accelerating? CTF83! 19:30, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

The sudden increase in blood pressure. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:38, 19 August 2017 (UTC) Oh, not that kind of semi. Nevermind. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:39, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

I see what you did there... --Jayron32 02:26, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Diesel engines tend to have more torque than gasoline engines, and, if the truck is empty, and hence has a much lower mass than the engine is designed for, this can translate into a noticeable lurch. The truck driver could eliminate this by pressing the accelerator very slowly, but they typically don't bother. StuRat (talk) 21:54, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

I think the OP is not asking about a lurch due to sudden acceleration. I think he means axle tramp, a form of violent bouncing up and down of an axle assembly. We don't have an article on axle tramp, but one definition is here. I also think the problem has nothing to do with whether the vehicle is diesel or not. Akld guy (talk) 23:37, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVQ5iZQTQJI video of axle tramp (((The Quixotic Potato))) (talk) 01:10, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Wow that's a really bad case of axle tramp. Good illustrative video. Akld guy (talk) 02:29, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

There is a description of axle tramp, with diagram, here: [1] 2606:A000:4C0C:E200:5560:5BBD:5A94:28E2 (talk) 07:31, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Here's another kind of axle tramp: [2]. :-) StuRat (talk) 16:11, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Wow that's a really bad case of axle tramp. Good illustrative photo. Akld guy (talk) 20:39, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Connecting analog phone to PC and/or alternatives

I am aware that dedicated VOIP phones exist, but this is quite a nice analog phone. I would have thought that my PC sound card would be able to output appropriate signals to operate it, so is there a combination of software and a simple analog adaptor that would allow me to use said phone as a VOIP phone for Skype for Business?

Failing that, what would be a cheap way of making use of it? I'm aware that nothing is free, but what might be a good bet?--Leon (talk) 19:59, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

I am guessing that you no longer have land line service in your home, and thus need to find a way to repurpose this phone. Is this correct ? StuRat (talk) 20:38, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

You need an Analog telephone adapter. Phil Holmes (talk) 10:30, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Light on power strip

The little red light on a power strip, for example this, is a tiny little light bulb, not an LED. What is it called? How many watts does it use? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.194.69.36 (talk) 20:54, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Neon lamp#Indicator. This post by Clive Mitchell says of one "They typically run at 1mA which is low enough just to use a single resistor to drop the current directly from the mains. The voltage across the neon is about 90V when it strikes and 60V when lit, so theoretically the power dissipation of the neon lamp is just 0.06W. However with the resistor loss included it's about 0.1W at 110V and 0.25W at 240V. Virtually nothing in other words." -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 21:05, 19 August 2017 (UTC)