Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2017 September 17

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September 17

Fixing a leaky tub overflow drain

Something like this ?

It seems to have rusted out where the iron drain pipe connects to the tub, similar to this one: [1]. The proper way to fix it would involve ripping out the wall. So, is there a an easier fix ? I'm thinking that something not unlike a female condom (but with the end cut off and more heavy duty) could be hosed into the drain, and the outside portion epoxied down to the tub. StuRat (talk) 16:05, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

I strongly expect that ripping out the wall won't get you to it. By "leaky", do you mean that you are finding leaks under the tub in the ceiling of the lower floor directly under the tub? Or, do you mean that when you fill the tub with water, it leaks out the drain and won't stay filled? Those are two very different problems with two very different solutions. 209.149.113.5 (talk) 11:55, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

There's no leak until the water level reaches the overflow drain, then it dribbles out the ceiling on the floor beneath at a substantial rate. This just recently happened, before that the tub could be filled past that level with no leak. StuRat (talk) 16:05, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

That is an actual leak. You need to completely remove the old drain and replace it. There is a lot of rust. Hopefully the tub itself doesn't need replacement. If it does, it isn't overly expensive. I replaced one three years ago. It was under $500 for the tub and all new hardware. 209.149.113.5 (talk) 17:54, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

The picture appears to show a combined waste and overflow with a pop-up waste. The best thing to do would be replace it. Why do you need to rip out the wall? Is there not a panel on the side of the bath you can remove?--Ykraps (talk) 12:46, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Agree with Ykraps. But if there is just a wall behind the overflow without an access panel, you could buy a new access panel at a building center which includes a removable panel and a surround, then cut an appropriately sized and located hole to replace the overflow or at least the leaking gasket between the bronze overflow and the outside of the tub. 73.110.33.227 (talk) 15:41, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes, that's exactly what we would need to do to fix it properly. Cutting into the wall could damage support beams, pipes, wires (one would hope electrical wires aren't routed next to plumbing, but you never know), etc., so not my favorite option. StuRat (talk) 16:05, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

If done properly, there should be a backer board behind the plumbing. So, you will cut through drywall and see a solid board. That isn't helpful. If you don't see a backer board, no problem. Replace everything from there. If you do, don't yank it out. Expect the plumbing to be mounted to it. That is why it is there. It keeps the plumbing from wiggling. You can experience a lot of things in between free-floating plumbing and properly mounted plumbing. In an apartment, I watched the repair guy fix a leak in our shower. He cut out the wall behind the plumbing and they literally had coat hangers wrapped around the plumbing to keep it in place. I was a kid, so I didn't think much of it. As an adult with my own house, I like to have it done properly. 209.149.113.5 (talk) 17:54, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

I still don't see why you need to take the wall out; you should be able to get your hand in behind the bath, from the side. But, if it's a stud wall, it shouldn't be a massive problem. Beat a small hole in the plasterboard with a hammer and work out until you find the uprights (these are 4" x 2" in the UK), use a Stanley knife (a very sharp knife, like a razor) to cut the board an inch in on either side (half way). That way, you will have something to fix to when you put a new piece back. If your lucky enough to find a noggin going across, cut on that, otherwise cut anywhere, you can put a piece of 4 x 2 in later. If there are any wires, and I cant imagine why there would be, they ought to be running through the centres of the wood so you're in no danger of cutting them. Pipework will either be notched in on the far side of the cavity, or screwed to the other side of the wall but again this will be protected by the wood. Beat out the plasterboard on the other side of the cavity but keep the hole below the level of the bath. As I said, you should be able to do this without disturbing the wall if you can get your hand behind the bath. The overflow, (which is the bit that's leaking by the sound of it) will either screw on like a large nut, or will be secured by screws (as in the picture). Once the front bit is off, the back part should pull away. If your lucky, you may be able to replace just this bit (although you will probably have to buy the lot). If not, you need to remove the trap, and take out the waste (plughole). Again, this will either be secured with a large nut that runs around the outside of the waste, or it will screw down from the top. The gaskets supplied with the new gubbins are usually pretty good and you shouldn't need anything else but if you're worried, you can use a smear of silicone sealant, or throw away the gaskets and use plumbers' putty.--Ykraps (talk) 18:55, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

• Perhaps someone could provide a link to a plumbing book? μηδείς (talk) 20:08, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately, plumbing books concentrate on calculations and regulations and don't provide step by step instructions on how to undertake a task. This is something which is learnt 'on the job'.--Ykraps (talk) 20:48, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

I should probably mention the age of this tub and plumbing. The house was built in 1926, and, judging from the Art Deco fixtures on the tub, it's original. So, based on the age and my experience with other plumbing in this house, I expect non-standard plumbing, possibly requiring fabrication by hand to match. So, better to find a work-around or face replacing all the plumbing in the house. This house also didn't use plaster board, but rather lath and plaster, which brings with it it's own issues. StuRat (talk) 20:17, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

I don't know about standards in the US but sizes in the UK haven't changed since before lead was used. Here, you're waste would be 1 1/2 inches in diameter but if you want a fix, you could probably stick the back and the front with silicone sealant but it's not something I would recommend. You could still break out a small area of the laths and replace with a bit of plasterboard then skim with a multicoat plaster.--Ykraps (talk) 20:48, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

I have been assuming the fitting is broken but could it just need tightening up?--Ykraps (talk) 05:04, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

I couldn't load the picture at work. I looked at it last night. That is a very standard drain plug. It seals to the tub right around the hole. The tub appears to be in good condition. The drain, seen through the hole, is in good condition. You say it doesn't drip until water hits the top hole. See this. Ignore what the page is about. Look at the picture. Notice that if doesn't leak when water is in the tub, then the plumbing is good at the bottom. The leak is at the top. See how the drain connects to the backside of that hole where the lever is? That must have a good seal around it. The seal is also held tight by screwing on the lever. So, you have two tasks: Reseal the hole and put on a good lever that you can screw down tight. You will want to have a new lever plate before you start. Then, you *can* seal the hole from the tub. The hole is big enough that most people can get two fingers in there. Push the drain back a tad. It should wiggle if the previous seal is broken. I would start by using a bent tool of some kind (surely you have something hard with a bend in it) to scrape out the old putty around the seal. Then, cram plenty of plumbers putty in between the drain and the hole. To squeeze it tight, put the new lever plate on and screw it down. Leave it overnight. The next day, you can remove the plate and scrape out the putty that squeezed out into the hole when you tightened it. Then, put the cover plate back on. 209.149.113.5 (talk) 12:36, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

The captcha for posting that link was "leakmold". Hmmmm... Does Wikipedia suspect another problem here? 209.149.113.5 (talk) 12:37, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for all the answers so far. Any other suggestions for a "quick fix" that doesn't involve ripping open the wall ? StuRat (talk) 23:57, 22 September 2017 (UTC)