Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2019 July 16

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July 16

Palm Beach County vs Broward County in 2000 Election

Good evening, sorry if I go back there. I need a confirmation rather than an answer. Palm Beach computer software was programmed differently than in Broward County. Suffice it to say that the positions of the Gore / Lieberman ticket are different and therefore the relative holes to be drilled. The hole of the ticket at Broward was number 3, while the one in Palm Beach was number 5, the so-called ballery buffery, so they were the same candidates but the beam of light, recording votes for Gore at position number 3 at Broward and at 5 in Palm Beach, am I right? The rest, it is almost all clear to me - I repeat - I just need a confirmation. Below I attach a link with an image of the ballot used at Broward and next to the Palm Beach ballot, the ballot designed by Mrs. Theresa LePore. Many thanks to those who will have the courtesy and patience to answer me. https://www.google.it/search?q=broward+county+ballot+votomatic&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiA1LLEoJHjAhXLTBUIHT7OA9MQ_AUIEigD&biw=1768&bih=887#imgrc=HyhxFv1Rwx1RcM: — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.41.100.198 (talk) 13:02, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

"Butterfly ballot"

Yes, ballots are prepared differently because different districts have different candidates, different proposals, even different offices being elected. But no person votes in more than one place so it doesn't really matter. Rmhermen (talk) 17:38, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Filling the "butterfly ballot"

This is in regard to the question immediately above. How does one exactly fill in this "butterfly ballot"? I imagine it has something to do with the holes, but what? JIP | Talk 13:14, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

You slide the punch card in at the top (long side vertical), and each pair of pages aligns with a different line of spots to potentially punch on the card. When you're done, you pull the punch card out and give it to the official. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:34, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

And as I recall, the way you "punch" the card is with a (sharp?) stylus, which is provided. Loraof (talk) 16:05, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

It's not very sharp, and also not very long - kind of like a stubby golf pencil - but it's strong enough to poke through the pre-perforated rectangle without leaving a "hanging chad" (they hope). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:29, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

So do you punch the card through the holes in the yellow strip in the middle of the picture? And the actual punch card is underneath the lists and holes shown? In my opinion, the Finnish voting ballot is much simpler. There's no holes or punching involved. It's a piece of paper with a circle on it. You write the number of your candidate inside the circle with a pencil (provided), fold the ballot and give it to the official. JIP | Talk 16:16, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Sound problematic to me. Handwriting is subject to interpretation, and depending on the political leanings of whoever reads each ballot, the results may well differ. (You could sequester those people so they don't know which number is for which candidate, but that's a lot of trouble and wouldn't entirely fix the problem or poor handwriting. For example, elderly people with shaky hands may have their votes tossed out as illegible.) SinisterLefty (talk) 17:24, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Where I come from, you get a paper ballot with an oval next to every name, and use one of their pens to fill in the selected ovals. When you're done, you feed it into what's basically an op-scan reader. See Optical scan voting system. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:54, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Well, all the voter is required (and allowed) to write is a candidate number consisting of one to three digits. This should be done in simple handwriting. There are actually posters in voting booths showing concrete examples of how to write numbers clearly. If the voter makes any kind of markings other than the candidate number on the ballot, the vote is disqualified. JIP | Talk 18:13, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Let's say they write a 7, but the top and vertical slanted line don't quite touch. If 7 is the candidate the person reading it supports, that's a valid vote. If it's for any other candidate, it's ruled invalid. All subjectivity should be taken out of the process. SinisterLefty (talk) 20:51, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

The concrete examples state clearly that a 7 must have a horizontal line through the slanted line so it can't be mistaken for a 1. And it's required by law that the people who count the votes are from several different political viewpoints, all keeping an eye on each other. You're reading this like the Devil reads the Bible, trying to find faults wherever possible. JIP | Talk 22:27, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

But what would be wrong with making it objective instead of subjective ? Real basic example, they could hit a button labelled 7, that would print a 7 on the ballot, which they could then visually verify, so there would be no confusion. (If the machinery broke, they could go back to writing it by hand.) SinisterLefty (talk) 22:42, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

The op-scan approach takes such details out of the equation. Most anyone can use a pen to fill in an oval. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:00, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Can still be half filled in, go outside the oval, or one can be filled in and another partially. Lots of room for error. SinisterLefty (talk) 00:54, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Australia uses paper ballots. All candidates are entitled to be represented at any stage of the vote counting process by scrutineers, who observe the count and see that fair judgements are made on any potentially unclear votes. There's pretty much always enough of these people, at least for the major parties, to ensure that no changing of votes or biased counting goes on. HiLo48 (talk) 02:16, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes. As to this method (which is not unique to Florida), I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:29, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

It all sounds rather complicated. In the UK, you write a letter X in the box next to the name of the person you want to vote for. [1] A human being counts them, twice if required. Alansplodge (talk) 23:11, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

See Kensington (UK Parliament constituency)#Elections in the 2010s (first paragraph). 2A00:23C3:C980:5100:EC9C:4D0E:3159:61CE (talk) 19:34, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Hand-counting takes a lot longer. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:30, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

What's the rush? We usually know the result of a general election by the wee small hours of the next morning. In the 2015 general election, the Leader of the Opposition resigned at 4 am when he realised that the game was up. Alansplodge (talk) 19:04, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Ask the news media that question. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:31, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Avalon Dairy (Vancouver BC)

Does anyone know if this farm is still open? --Thegooduser Life Begins With a Smile :) 🍁 16:31, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes. (Today: Open now) —107.15.157.44 (talk) 16:43, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

If I'm reading the receipt right on that 2nd link, that's CAN$ 2.51/kg for cheddar cheese, not a bad price ! The only time it gets that cheap here is when nearing it's sell-by date. The milk, on the other hand, is pricey at CAN$ 2.70 for a liter (it is organic, at least). SinisterLefty (talk) 17:18, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Ok thanks, however I was looking for the one on Wales Street. --Thegooduser Life Begins With a Smile :) 🍁 16:48, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

That one appears to be permanently closed, and for quite some time, as the last review was from 2012: [2]. Too bad, it had a 4.5 star rating. Just Google "Avalon Dairy, Wales Street, Vancouver" (without the quotes) to find this type of answer yourself. Here's an article on the closing: [3]. At least they continued in the other location. SinisterLefty (talk) 17:05, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Dang. I wanted to go there. :( --Thegooduser Life Begins With a Smile :) 🍁 17:20, 16 July 2019 (UTC)