Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2024 September 24

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September 24

Cloning the Carolina parakeet

In theory, would it be possible to clone the extinct Carolina parakeet by taking whatever existing DNA we have of the species and filling any gaps with DNA from the sun conure (closest living relative and very common pet) and then putting that into a sun conure egg? I have read that it's very difficult to clone birds though. 146.200.126.178 (talk) 23:12, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Here's an Audubon Magazine write up on the topic. It foolishly says that the Carolina parakeet, ivory-billed woodpecker, and passenger pigeon could be invasive, which is nonsense; only the Carolina parakeet could conceivably be successful beyond its former range. See monk parakeet for why. Abductive (reasoning) 23:55, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, there's been a lot of talk about removing monk parakeets from areas where they are non-native. But the public tend to get extremely angry about the idea of culling parrots specifically, even to the point of taking direct action when nests are removed. I believe there was even a politician a few years ago who said something along the lines of "absolutely not" when it came to the idea of removing that species being raised by his advisors. 146.200.126.178 (talk) 00:19, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Would you then get an actual Carolina parakeet, or merely a hybrid that kind of looks like it? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:30, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I was thinking that myself. How much of the Carolina parakeet's DNA can be replaced by another (very closely related) species before it can no longer be considered a Carolina parakeet? 146.200.126.178 (talk) 01:42, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Has the genome of any of these extinct species been mapped? I don't think the article says. But that would be a way to maybe get closer to a real clone. And I understand what they mean by invasive. If a species wasn't someplace, and then appears in that place, by definition it's invasive. That doesn't necessarily mean it will be harmful to other species in that place, but it could be. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:18, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

See Ship of Theseus. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 17:41, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

"Reconstructed", bit by bit. In the case of an organism, some careful selective breeding could eventually render the species closer to the original. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:55, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

We have an article on the concept De-extinction. It mentions the passenger pigeon example discussed in Abductive's link. It also briefly mentions the Carolina parakeet and claims a "full genome of the carolina parakeet was sequenced" in 2019 although I'd suggest reading the sources as I suspect this isn't a complete genome. Revive & Restore seem to be the ones most involved in this for birds or at least the ones who seemed to have received the most publicity. (Colossal Biosciences is also popular but although they did make noises about the dodo they seem more concentrated on mammalian species. And while I personally think anyone involved in this is fairly PR oriented, Colossal Biosciences chosen projects seem to be more flash.) At the moment, in terms of actual "de-extincting" species they seem to be concentrating on the above mentioned passenger pigeon which is their flagship project with also some work on the heath hen. Interesting they've set a goal of the "first generation of new Passenger Pigeons before 2025" but considering their progress page [1] hasn't been updated since 2019, I have doubts we're going to see this first generation in the next 3 months. In fact, even their 2023 report [2] doesn't seem to mention the passenger pigeon. With the heath hen project they at least seem to have been less optimistic about promising stuff by certain dates [3]. However that too doesn't seem to have had an updated since 2020 [4]. Possibly COVID-19 related disruption to their work hasn't helped, still it's been a while since it should have been a barrier to any lab work etc. BTW, I'd say Revival of the woolly mammoth and Thylacine#Research are perhaps the projects which have generally received the most historic interest so might be a good place to look beyond general discussions about de-extinction about the feasibility of such proposals and whether the result if we did succeed should really be compared with the original species. Although the research related to the Maclear's rat mention in our article might be another recent place to look in to. Nil Einne (talk) 10:09, 27 September 2024 (UTC)