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November 18

By Today's Standards, What Kind of Socialist is Babeuf?

Babeuf supports the abolition of currency, but still wants to retain the existence of national borders, and I'm not sure if that would make him a Marxist or a non-Marxist socialist. I'm also not sure if Babeuf is closer to left-authoritarianism or left-libertarianism. Eougt59 (talk) 04:05, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

He's pre-Marxist. Some would call all pre-Marxist socialists "utopian", and "Utopian socialism" appears in the infobox of his article... AnonMoos (talk) 05:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

He was regarded as the first revolutionary communist. He advocated for equality in society and the abolition of private property. However, in today’s standards, justice and equity are more important than equality. Stanleykswong (talk) 09:02, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Limits to property rights of non-living items

Suppose, purely hypothetically, that Billy O'Nair has acquired a Sunflowers painting, completely legally, being the highest bidder at an auction. At a whim, he decides to destroy it. Could Mr. O'Nair face legal consequences? More generally, are there jurisdictions that to some extent protect the preservation of highly-valued and possibly irreplaceable items, even when they have not specifically been awarded some official status such as "national treasure"? Or, conversely, are there jurisdictions for which it is foreseeable – such as based on jurisprudence – that such vile abuse of one's stewardship over one's property can be exercised with impunity?

(I am aware of the fact that "highly-valued" has a subjective aspect. But so do many other commonly accepted terms used in legal contexts, such as "reasonable care", "cruel and unusual", "undue hardship", so please do not get stuck on that.)  --Lambiam 14:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

If the jurisdiction in question (ie: the state), considers the preservation of an item to be something desirable, then why has the state not taken control over it? --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 16:53, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Sometimes a nation will intervene in auctions to prevent a cultural item leaving the country. On the other hand, Steve Wynn put his elbow through Le Rêve (Picasso) without getting thrown into a UNESCO dungeon or anything. He even wanted money back for doing it.  Card Zero  (talk) 16:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The Right to Destroy Artwork says that in the UK, the owner of the work can do with it as they please, citing the destruction of Graham Sutherland's Portrait of Winston Churchill by Churchill's widow or staff. In France there are droits d’auteur (author's rights) which allows the artist to object to the destruction of his work, although in the OP's example, any copyright would have expired long since. Similar rights exist in the USA under the Visual Artists Rights Act of 1990. Alansplodge (talk) 17:33, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

According to our article, the painting was destroyed within a year after its creation, some ten years before Churchill's death – although I do not see this early destruction date in the cited source.  --Lambiam 05:43, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

The article "The Right to Destroy Artwork" states that The Visual Artists Rights Act includes the prohibition of destruction of artwork. A speaker in the House of Representatives is reported as having given the rationale that "society is the ultimate loser when works are modified or destroyed", which comes close to the essence of my question. However, the act only grants rights to the author, which only persist for their lifetime, so this stated rationale is not the intention of the law.  --Lambiam 06:18, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

A citation leads me to Sprankling, John G (2014). "The Right to Destroy". The International Law of Property. Oxford. WP:Library doesn't seem to be working for me right now, but the abstract hints it might be useful. Of course many jurisdictions have limitations on the use of real property and some might possibly apply before something is "designated" historic. fiveby(zero) 17:51, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Here's the wplibrary link.

International law restricts the owner’s right to destroy artistic works by recognizing the artist’s right of integrity. The principal source of this limitation is the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works (Berne Convention), which applies to all “literary and artistic works,” including architecture, paintings, photographs, and sculpture. Article 6bis sets forth the moral rights held by the creator of such a work, including the right of integrity. It provides that even after the transfer of all “economic rights” in the work, the creator retains the right “to object to any distortion, mutilation or other modification of, or other derogatory action in relation to, the said work which would be prejudicial to his honor or reputation.”...Most states have adopted domestic laws to protect this right.

— p. 298

Adeney, Elizabeth (2006). The Moral Rights of Authors and Performers: An International and Comparative Analysis. Oxford. lists the jurisdiction and statutes but no wplibrary access. Examples given are Martin v City of Indianapolis and Felseneiland mit Sirenen (1912) (Germany). However:

The right of integrity is not based on society’s interest in safeguarding artistic property from damage, but rather on protecting the honor and reputation of the creator...Even assuming that destruction is a form of “mutilation” or “other modification,” it does not violate the right of integrity unless it also prejudices the “honor or reputation” of the creator...In practice, the right of integrity is an unwieldy tool to prevent mutilation or destruction

— pp. 299-300

You might also be interested in the "Cultural Heritage Property" section, but the conclusion in 2014 was:

International law does not currently prohibit a private owner from destroying cultural heritage property. At this juncture, it can only be called an emerging trend, not a customary norm or a general principle of law. However, given the rate at which international cultural heritage law has expanded in recent decades, it seems likely that the momentum toward restricting such destruction will continue.

— p. 302

fiveby(zero) 22:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

The idea of heritage/listing systems is to limit what owners can do with their own real estate. See List of heritage registers. On a local level (and not listed in that article) properties in the UK may be in a Conservation area, which has a similar aim. -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 20:15, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

This case may be of interest, though in the end nothing came of it. Matt Deres (talk) 20:33, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

In the UK we have the concept of a Listed building, which restricts what changes can be made to certain houses and other constructions. A famous recent case was a pub called The Crooked House, which burned down in suspicious circumstances; the owners were ordered to rebuild it in its original form. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 14:13, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Spanish Consistory

The article section Fandango#Condemnation_and_liberation_by_Spanish_Church mentions a Consistory as a Spanish ecclesiastical authority, but the link is to Consistorium, which was a feature of the Roman empire. Do we have a more appropriate article to link to? Possibly Papal consistory or Ecclesiastical_court#Catholic_Church Rojomoke (talk) 17:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Rojomoke; from a quick Google and looking at sources like this and this, it seems that an ecclesiastical court is the intended meaning. Alansplodge (talk) 15:19, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

So amended. Alansplodge (talk) 15:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Is Diamond still a featured article?

Hi. I was wondering if Diamond is still a featured article? I doubt it since it was promoted a long time ago, but please let me know. Thank You. 2605:B100:14A:9E08:514F:EF1E:75E0:8084 (talk) 22:38, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Stop asking. You can check this for yourself very easily. Featured articles have a gold star at the top right of the page and if you hover over it, it will say that the article is at featured status. The talk page will also explicitly say whether an article is at featured status or not. Matt Deres (talk) 23:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

With regard to such questions,

you will find at WP:FEATURED that featured article status persists (even if only honorary)

until an article is deleted or moved from its location (name) 130.74.58.180 (talk) 16:14, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

November 19

Neirab steles and the minor god Shahar

Neirab steles. I was reading an inscriptions book and found reference to them. Our page says they were considered dubious from the start. I imagine they're not consequential enough to have enjoyed a revisitation by the academy, who knows. I think the wear is a bit uneven, the script might be too textbook. My question is about spelling. Is there anywhere else that spelled the god's name שהר? I think it's elsewhere more like שחר. I checked KTU 1.23 for spelling, they gave šḥr and one šhr which might have been a typo.

Secondarily, where's a better place than here to ask this kind of question? Is there one? Neither wordreference forums nor earlywritings forums seem to quite hit the mark for spellings on steles. Temerarius (talk) 02:15, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Funny coincidence, I just ran across a reference to שחר as an herb in Elephantine here note 603. First I've heard of it, and I always keep my ears attuned to this word and its soundalikes due to the canonical cruces.

Temerarius (talk) 03:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC) Temerarius (talk) 03:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

References

In response to your second question, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ancient Near East seems fairly active. Alansplodge (talk) 15:13, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

November 20

Is it illegal for an American to pay prostitutes for sex

I have been reading CNN post here: https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-transition-news-11-19-24/index.html Where it says "The women said they were paid by the former congressman for sex on that trip, during which they also joined Gaetz at a Fox News studio while he filmed a TV appearance, their attorney Joel Leppard told CNN's Erin Burnett on "OutFront." Gaetz allegedly covered the women's travel costs as well, Leppard said."

But did Gaetz did anything wrong? I am not an US citizen and I don't know if it is illegal for an American to pay prostitutes for sex? Can someone explain. 2001:8003:429D:4100:6501:12DA:18A6:ED8 (talk) 03:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

We have a full article about it here. Omidinist (talk) 04:38, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

If he paid for their travel from one state to another for the purpose of having sex with him, that could be a Mann Act violation. AnonMoos (talk) 06:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Anyway, before Trump, it wasn't necessary for an American politician to commit an actual crime for their career to be derailed by a sex scandal (see Wilbur Mills etc). That standard still applies to Democratic politicians (see Al Franken and Katie Hill), but Republicans now seem to be rewriting the rules as they go along. (Trump himself is a judicially-adjudicated -- though not criminally convicted -- sexual assaulter.) AnonMoos (talk) 06:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES - 118th CONGRESS - RULE XXIII — CODE OF OFFICIAL CONDUCT says:

1. A Member, Delegate, Resident Commissioner, officer, or employee of the House shall behave at all times in a manner that shall reflect creditably on the House.1. A Member, Delegate, Resident Commissioner, officer, or employee of the House shall behave at all times in a manner that shall reflect creditably on the House.

Alansplodge (talk) 12:09, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

That rule "is no more" and "has ceased to be". Or maybe it's just "pining for the fjords". Clarityfiend (talk) 12:33, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

the guy was not even censured,

although,

the core of the republican party is now composed of two-timers, philanderers, 'businessmen doing business',

illiterates, hucksters, snake oil salesmen (Kennedy, Oz, even Trump with his horse tranquilizer) and so on 130.74.58.180 (talk) 16:12, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

That Oz guy is no relation of mine, btw. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 18:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Prostitution is legal in some rural counties of Nevada, but not in the larger cities. See Prostitution in Nevada. Cullen328 (talk) 17:25, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

This brings up something important about the legality. Prositution laws are state laws. In one state, it may be illegal to be paid for sex as well as to pay for sex. In another state, it is legal to pay for sex, but not be paid for it. In another state, it may be legal to be paid for sex, but not pay for it. As a state law, a state can allow counties within a state to make their own laws. Therefore, the question is not about the legality of Gaetz paying for sex in the United States, it is about the legality in the specific location it was (reportedly) paid for. But, as mentioned, being legal does not mean being ethical. Many legal actions are not ethical and can be used to censure a congress person. 64.53.18.252 (talk) 22:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

There's also the question of what exactly is a prostitute. If a woman happens to accept money, does that qualify, or does it only qualify if it's her primary vocation? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Women are so much more than just objects for men to screw. But men only have a few brain cells and can’t control themselves around women, and being sexualized is all women know so they let themselves get exploited and think it’s perfectly okay. 2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:807F:7FE4:7205:E54E (talk) 00:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I doubt many of them think it's "perfectly OK", but women are practical. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Women: More than objects to screw. Men: Nothing but objects who screw. You seem nice. And also blocked. --Golbez (talk) Golbez (talk) 06:56, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

The OP's question is not about ethics or morality or hypocricy or whether or not a woman who sells sex occasionslly should be classified as a prostitute, or whether or not Matt Gaetz committed a crime because he has neither been officially charged with nor convicted of a crime. The question is whether or not it is illegal for an American man to pay for sex. The answer is that it is illegal in many jurisdictions and legal in other jurisdictons. As long as he complies with the local laws, it is legal where it is legal. American men can and do travel to other countries where prostitution is legal but the laws are varied. As pointed out previously, prostitution is illegal in almost all areas of the United States, but there are a few rural counties in Nevada where it is legal, licensed, regulated and advertised. It is only legal in licensed brothels and there are only about 20 of them. So, even in those rural counties of Nevada where prostitution in brothels is legal, it is illegal for a man to connect with a prostitute in a bar or on a streetcorner or even on the internet, except through a brothel's website. But if a man goes to a licensed brothel and follows their rules and regulations, it is legal. I live in California not far from Nevada and love the remote mountains and deserts of Nevada, and have visited Nevada countless times. I have driven past legal brothels quite a few times with my wife and sometimes with my sons. If you take the short drive, for example, from the state capital of Carson City, Nevada to the historic silver mining town of Virginia City, Nevada, you will pass at least two legal brothels, with billboards and parking lots, doing business constantly and legally. Cullen328 (talk) 09:39, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Tower of David - surviving crusader parts?

Are there any buildings, or parts of buildings, within the present Tower of David that date from the crusader period? And if there are, do we have any photos of them on Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons? Surtsicna (talk) 22:00, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

November 21

Why is the fictosexuality article protected?

wp:deny
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I wanted to make edits about the pain, suffering, and alienation that they go through everyday, but it’s protected and I can’t edit it. And the teahouse is protected too, so this is the only place I can go. I don’t want to make an account. 2603:8001:C2F0:7D0:807F:7FE4:7205:E54E (talk) 00:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC) Replied on your talk page. win8x (talk) 00:06, 21 November 2024 (UTC) Because of your edits. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:55, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

November 22

St Austell Western Relief Road, 1980s proposal

I remember sometime in the 1980s (I think the latter half) a proposal for a relief road to the west of St Austell in Cornwall, from somewhere like Stenalees or Penwithick to Sticker or thereabouts. I would be grateful for any information about the proposal, and any reasons for its abandonment. The records of local newspapers on the British Newspaper Archive do not appear to reach a recent enough date. Thank you. DuncanHill (talk) 00:34, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Are you talking about the St Austell to A30 link road? Stanleykswong (talk) 14:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't know the answer, but Facebook groups are very good for this kind of question. Look for groups called things like Cornwall/St Austell History or Memories. --Viennese Waltz 13:30, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

It's not the St Austell to A30 link. DuncanHill (talk) 15:55, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

What does a relief road relieve? Congestion? —Tamfang (talk) 20:06, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes. In this case it was to take traffic off the old Bodmin Road, which is not wide enough in places for heavy traffic, and has the awkward corner outside the General Wolfe. DuncanHill (talk) 13:10, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

As a grockle/emmet more familiar with the north coast around Wadebridge/Trebetherick, I imagine that the A390 via St. Blazey and Lanivery would have been more attractive to the planners than making a whole new bypass just to put more traffic on the old Bodmin road via Bugle and Lanivet. Plus didn't they improve the A39 round Truro to make it easier to get on the A30 at the Carland junction rather than traipse through St. Austell anyway, despite the obvious attractions of Tresilian and Grampound to yer average holiday motorist?[1] The old General Wolfe seems not to be doing too well.[2] You could always ask the planning department at Cornwall County Council in Bodmin... PS Rock Bakery splits and Kelly's ice cream for ever, btw. MinorProphet (talk) 02:38, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Comparing with other South-Western cities and towns, congestion is not too bad in St Austell, so it may not be a high priority for Cornwall government. Stanleykswong (talk) 18:02, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

November 23

Please explain the difference...

...between these 2 movies: (Release date known is not to be taken as part of the difference.)

https://playbill.com/article/broadways-girl-from-the-north-country-will-arrive-in-cinemas-this-fall-watch-the-trailer

https://playbill.com/article/olivia-colman-chloe-bailey-tosin-cole-woody-harrelson-will-star-in-girl-from-the-north-country-film

(The first link has a link to the second link that shows that these are not the same movie.) Georgia guy (talk) 01:16, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Georgia guy, one of the films appears to be a straight filming of the jukebox musical play as performed onstage in a theater. That filming already happened. The other appears to be a dramatization of the play with its own script and would presumably be filmed in a studio instead of a theater. It is confusing. One wonders why Bob Dylan would approve both films, and if the movie watching audience would welcome two film adaptations of the same jukebox musical. On the other hand, Dylan has been successful for over 60 years, and was just on a national tour with Willie Nelson, Robert Plant, Alison Kraus and John Mellencamp this past summer. One must assume that he and his team know what they are doing. Cullen328 (talk) 03:16, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

December (Roman month)

Out of each of the days of December, which ones would the ancient Romans have designated as dies fasti, which ones as dies comitali, which ones as dies nefasti, which ones as feriae, which ones as quando rex comitiavit fas, and which ones as endotercissus? That month's article remains the only one whose table lacks such information. (in fact, it didn't even have a table at all until just recently) - MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 02:39, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Have paged the Pontifex Maximus. Expect a reply Monday. Cheers 2601:481:80:6E60:24B3:C1E8:EA21:72F (talk) 04:36, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

According to "The Calendar of the Roman Republic" by Agnes Kirsopp Michels, the 1st 2nd and 3rd are "N", the 4th "C", the 5th and 6th "F", 7th through 10th "C", the 11th "NP", the 12th "EN", the 13th "NP", the 14th "F", then there's an alternation of "NP" days (the 15th, 17th, 19th, 21st, 23rd) and "C" days (the 16th, 18th, 20th, and 22nd), while the rest are "C". Of course, that applies to the late Republic period... AnonMoos (talk) 15:28, 23 November 2024

(UTC)

You can see the whole year here:

.

21 December was Divalia, not to be confused with Divali, which falls at much the same time of month and much the same time of year. 2A02:C7B:10C:B100:D07E:B99F:749D:94EF (talk) 18:24, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Complex Texan language

The question, "Mr. President, they can't make you believe now that there are not some in Dallas who love and appreciate you, can they?" is rather hard to parse, including as it does two negatives and two conditionals. This makes the response—"No, they sure can't"—potentially ambiguous, although unintentionally so. SerialNumber54129 15:47, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

A tag question is a commonplace construction in many languages, ね?  Card Zero  (talk) 16:52, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

I may be missing something, since I don't see the ambiguity. There are only two potential antecedents for the pronoun they in the response. The first is the occurrence of this pronoun in the question. This is a perfect fit: they can't make you do X — no, [you're right,] they can't [make me do X]. The other potential antecedent is formed by the noun phrase some in Dallas who love and appreciate you. There is no potentiality in the claim some in Dallas love and appreciate you, whether explicit or implicit. If the claimed Dallas-based fans were the intended antecedent, a no response elicited by the claim would take a form as in some love and appreciate you — no, they don't [love and appreciate me].  --Lambiam 20:36, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

OK, over-focusing on the response perhaps. Cut the tag question and let's stick to "they can't make you believe now that there are not some in Dallas who love and appreciate you", then... SerialNumber54129 20:50, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm gonna go with Lambiam for once. It's not ambiguous. It might be easy to make a mistake in interpreting, but that's not the same as ambiguous. --Trovatore (talk) 20:56, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

November 24

Who owns the Tower of the Koutoubia Mosque?

Who bought Tower of the Koutoubia Mosque from Angelina Jolie in 2021? Our article says the details have not been made public, but I reckon the RefDesks can do better than that. Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 00:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd be surprised if we can. When people don't want it known that they've bought an £8,000,000 painting they usually keep the secret pretty determinedly. But if you want to try and work it out by elimination I'll give you a start: he wasn't a Belgian. --Antiquary (talk) 12:01, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

If we're doing it by elimination, it wasn't me, either. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:49, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

UK rivers

Not sure if this the right venue to ask this question. In the UK, where rivers form the boundaries between counties (and countries), are any of these rivers wholly in one county or are they all shared? Does the boundary always lie on one side or the other, or does it always follow the centre line of the river? Thank you. 79.77.181.116 (talk) 16:20, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Thats a good question. I'm not sure if I can help much, but...

The River Liddle runs almost the length of the England/Scotland border. It starts in Scotland and empties into the Esk just inside the English side. I think that as it originates in Scotland, it belongs to one of the water authorities in Scotland.So in that example it looks like even though its follow the border, it 'belongs' to Scotland. I'm going to look at the Welsh border to see how that works. I'm laying money on there not being a standard answer, 'cos, Britain. (I'm British, I'm allowed to say that). Knitsey (talk) 16:36, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Afon Dyfrdwy (River Dee) originates in Eryri (Snowdonia). It flows towards the Welsh/English border. It follows part of the boundary plus a tributary into the Irish Sea. It looks to mostly belong to Wales, with the portions that flow into England being cared for by Cheshire. There is also Afon Gwy (River Wye) further down which originates in Wales and forms part of the border. It looks like this is manages by Wales. I know this doesn't really answer your question but maybe someone with more knowledge about the subject. Knitsey (talk) 17:06, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

A quick look at a few Ordnance Survey maps shows that the boundaries tend to follow the centre of rivers, or at least the centre of the main course of the river. Alansplodge (talk) 22:44, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

The OS map shows that the border follow the centre of the rivers Tweed, Liddle, Wye and Dee apart from a few places where the river has been diverted. Management is the responsibility of the regional water authority so the county it 'belongs' to is somewhat irrelevant. Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:55, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I see. So are all rivers in the UK within a single regional water authority? Or, in the cases where the river is a boundary between two authorities, which one looks after the river? Thanks. 79.77.181.116 (talk) 10:28, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

If you click on the blue link for regional water authority, kindly provided in Shantavira's reply above, all will be revealed. Alansplodge (talk) 12:01, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Some rivers form semi-natural boundaries between counties such as the River Welland (in this case, Northamptonshire and Leicestershire, where the county border meanders from side to side across relatively straight sections of the river, suggesting that the channel has been engineered.

In England at least, there are 10 river basin districts, and 10 Water Authorities who are theoretically responsible for them, shown on this page. Some are based around the great river catchment areas such as the Thames, Severn, Dee, Humber, etc., other authorities include a number of unconnected streams and rivers flowing eg into the south coast (English Channel) or the east coast (North Sea). These are subdivided into individual Water Management Catchments, shown here. (The River Welland is No. 92 on this map, part of Anglian Water.) These authorities used to be publicly owned, but were sold off and privatised so their foreign owners can pump our untreated shit into the rivers and seas at vast profit to their shareholders. Thames Water, serving about 25% of the country's population, is just about to go bust with debts of £18 billion.[3] MinorProphet (talk) 03:40, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

November 25

Immigration to Korea

Trolling
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
How easy will it be for sons of Korean mothers to immigrate to Korea? I'm on the fence between Korea and Rwanda, but I need to find *somewhere* to permanently escape to, to escape Trump's hurtful policies. I feel similar about America in 2024 as Germans likely felt in 1932. I see a crapstorm coming to all Americans not in the top 1%. How much easier is it to escape permanently to Korea due to having a Korean mother and a whole family on my mother's side still living there? I don't choose to post my age, but I'm Gen Y / a Millennial. I have years of experience as a delivery driver and also hold a CDL. I can also take pictures of products to be sold, type up descriptions, and list them online. I can also be a social media representative. I can read Korean letters and words and sound them out, but can't comprehend sentences yet. I have Duolingo and can download other Korean language-learning apps. I have a Bachelor's in Social Sciences and a minor in Leadership. Trump will not pull US troops out of Korea, will he? (I fear that if he does, Korea may be the wealthier version of Afghanistan and the North Korean military will be your Taliban.) If my gig on Doordash ends, which it would upon emigrating, my SSDI would rise from $593 to around $1000, since there won't be another income to pull the SSDI down. How well would one survive on $1000/month in Korea? What 3rd-party delivery driving gig apps are like Doordash, but for Korea? Will it have an English language mode? Do immigrants get to deliver for those apps? What are the typical earnings per day like? How much do Korean language classes cost for foreign adults to take online or in-person? What other tips must I know about emigrating to Korea as the son of a Korean mother? What does it take to earn a permanent residency permit? A full Korean citizenship? What is Korea's national health insurance like, and how much does it cost? --2600:100A:B005:AFD5:B08A:71E6:8521:5D8E (talk) 08:55, 25 November 2024 (UTC) This is asking for legal advice, which cannot be given here. Abductive (reasoning) 03:45, 26 November 2024 (UTC) The OP is the same one who asked about getting cryogenically frozen while still alive. Maybe they could get the best of both worlds by moving to Antarctica. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 08:03, 26 November 2024 (UTC) OP, questions like this would be best answered by the (South) Korean Embassy in Washington, or by one of Korea's 13 Consulates in the US (see List of diplomatic missions of South Korea#Americas). That is one of their purposes: they probably have standard information packs. Since the country has the lowest birth rate in the World (see South Korea#Demographics), it is very open to immigration, particularly to people with Korean heritage. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 09:01, 26 November 2024 (UTC) Rwanda seems like an odd possibility. Can Trump really screw up the US in four years so badly that it is worse than that African nation? That would take real effort, and Trump's pretty lazy. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:03, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Help with NPS sources

(No response received at Wikipedia:Help desk, so have to ask here)

Hello,

NPS nomination forms have a section for "representation in existing surveys," as seen here on the bottom of the first page. What does this mean? Does it have something to do with a broader area-wide geographic survey, or a more specific historical site survey? Thanks so much!

JuxtaposedJacob (talk) | :) | he/him | 21:57, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

• Explained in this guidance document;

It is useful to note whether the property is included in the State Historic Preservation Officer's statewide survey of historic properties; in inventories compiled by Federal agencies of properties under their jurisdiction or control, or in the environmental impact area of their projects; in the Historic American Buildings Survey; the Historic American Engineering Records; the National Historic Landmarks program; or in any other local, State, or private survey. Locating existing surveys can save duplication of time and effort in gathering survey data and in correlating data produced by the current survey with other documentation on the property. It may also be useful to indicate whether the property is a locally designated landmark or is part of a locally designated district.

Abductive (reasoning) 03:51, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

@Abductive

Thank you so much!

JuxtaposedJacob (talk) | :) | he/him | 22:25, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

November 26

Trump's new hires

When filling out his Cabinet and other high offices, Trump is selecting various (current) Senators, Representatives, etc. How do those (soon-to-be) vacancies get re-filled? Thanks. 32.209.69.24 (talk) 08:09, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

When a U.S. Senate seat is vacated, the governor of that state can appoint a successor, who is sworn in pretty promptly. This is the process that led to a criminal conviction and eight years in prison for Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich who tried to sell the Senate seat vacated by Barack Obama in 2008. As for vacant seats in the House of Representatives, they must be filled by a special election, which is a much more lengthy and risky process. The election to fill the seat vacated by Matt Gaetz will not take place until April 1, 2025, and that seat will probably be vacant for about six months. Cullen328 (talk) 08:23, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

With regard to vacant senate seats, the procedure varies from state to state. In 45 states, the governor can make a temporary appointment, either for the remainder of the term, or until the next election. In the five others, a special election must be held. See here for more details. Xuxl (talk) 15:05, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. So, as Trump picks off various Senators and Reps, how and when is the majority determined in those Congressional houses? And who holds the majority while we wait for these special elections and gubernatorial appointments? Thanks. 32.209.69.24 (talk) 17:04, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

The majority is held by the party with the most active members on a given day. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:28, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

So, the majority "ping pongs" back and forth? And they select a Majority Senator and Speaker of the House on this "ping pong" basis? 32.209.69.24 (talk) 19:15, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Membership doesn't "'ping pong' back and forth;" it is set on the day this congress holds its first session. If changes in minority-majority status occur, there can be a call for new leadership.DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 20:17, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

It's pretty rare for control to go back and forth in one session. The 107th United States Congress Senate was the busiest. Congress opened January 3 2001 with 50-50 in the Senate, so Al Gore got the tie-breaking vote until January 20th, when Dick Cheney became VP; but in June Jim Jeffords moved from R to I and caucused with the Democrats, so the Democrats had a majority through the rest of that congress. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 20:27, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, all. 32.209.69.24 (talk) 05:20, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Dissent (sports)

I'd like to add something on this "thing" [4][5][6] on WP somewhere, maybe at Dissent, but I'd like some solid sources to base it on. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:11, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Unsportsmanlike conduct. Nanonic (talk) 08:17, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

That might be a reasonable place for it. Would be nice to have a solid source stating that "dissent" is "Unsportsmanlike conduct" though. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:22, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

And I see it's mentioned at Fouls and misconduct (association football). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:23, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

who occupies the land of the former Kakhovka Reservoir

There used to be a large body of water separating the Russian military in southern Ukraine from the Ukrainian military in northern Ukraine: the Kakhovka Reservoir. Now that that body of water is mostly land, who occupies it? When I asked a year ago there was no information available; I'm wondering if any is available a year on, now that it's overgrown with thick tree cover for soldiers to shelter under. It's larger than the area of Russia that Ukrainians control, it seems like someone would be trying to occupy it... -sche (talk) 21:52, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Willows grow fast, but not that fast. After one full growing season, they won't be big enough to find shelter under. Five years from now, they will, but the vegetation will be so dense that a human can't get through. A great habitat for beavers though. PiusImpavidus (talk) 10:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Looking at the Institute for the Study of War's map, it still seems like nobody has advanced very far into the morass. The Russians have only built trenches at the eastern end, and clearly are not worried about a serious Ukrainian offensive across the former Kakhovka Reservoir. Abductive (reasoning) 10:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

There's a story about the former reservoir with a few pictures in The Guardian. Apparently some of the willows are already four metres tall. Any attack across this land would have to make its way through dense and trackless vegetation, then cross a major river, then push through more vegetation to get to grips with the enemy. And not just the combat troops - all their supplies would have to make the same trip. I don't think it's surprising if both sides treat it as no man's land. OTOH, given the ingenuity displayed by the Ukranians so far, I wouldn't bet against them finding a way to pull it off. Chuntuk (talk) 09:29, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

November 27

UPS workers' comp claims

How much did UPS pay in workers comp claims for heat-related incidents last year? On the flip side, how much would it cost to air-condition their package vans and warehouses?

Did they also pay hazard bonuses for working in the heat?

Is it cheaper for UPS to just air condition their warehouses and package vans?

After paying the initial installation fees for the new HVAC systems, how much will it cost for UPS to run air conditioning and maintain their HVAC systems for one year (at least only when the weather is hot?)

And how much did they pay out in heat-related workers comp claims for one year?

How well will UPS come out ahead from simply air conditioning all places and vehicles that need air conditioned?

--2600:8803:1D13:7100:B100:3170:56F8:999D (talk) 17:24, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

You have linked to a disambiguation page.

Do you mean United Parcel Service?

If so, given that this is a global multinational company, are you interested in their facilities (which include far more that merely warehouses and vans) worldwide, or just in some particular country?

Guessing (with apologies if I'm wrong) that you are interested only in their parcel operations in the USA, answering your questions would require a very detailed and complete knowledge of their buildings and vehicle fleet, as well as (probably confidential) details of figures for their worker compensation payments. I would have thought that only UPS themselves would have access to the necessary information that would enable calculating, for example, the cost of installing air-conditioning in all their warehouses (etc.) in the US. My totally wild and uninformed guess is that this would cost something like $50 million.

Perhaps, however, other responders can contribute insights into these matters. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.1.211.243 (talk) 19:28, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

The most satisfying answer other than - none - is perhaps (UPS): In 2021, UPS employees donated more than one million (community) hours of their time. Last year was 2023 and some information is still available, including a few figures. A succesfull agreement between workers and management led to a situation with comp claims predictably quite low, though, lorry AC upgrade cost could be approximately $3000 per unit but regarding warehouses we need to substract an unknown number of drivers from a total of 340,000 employees. See also https://oshadefensereport.com/2024/10/02/maryland-oshas-new-heat-stress-standard/ , for some forward context. --Askedonty (talk) 22:06, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

November 28

Nudity in US media

Today I discovered something really interesting, but I'm not sure I understand it, so I need to ask a question. How much did social mores about nudity in the media change in the US over the entirety of the 20th century? I'm not talking about the history of fashion, which is fairly well documented, but the use of nudity in newspapers, magazines, television, and film. I recall reading that they changed quite a bit for this or that reason, but I don't remember the precipitating events. Here's why I'm asking this question:

Google hosts a free archive for Life magazine, which I recall being adventurous, experimental, and innovative, but also fairly socially conservative for its time given that it was a vehicle for American advertisers to sell their products and they wouldn't want to upset their readers. Fast forward to today. I was browsing the Feb 4, 1952 issue, when there on page 77 is a woman turned away from the camera, completely naked. For 1952, and for Life magazine, this seems unusual. European readers might be laughing about now, but in the US, the only nudity in the media that was ever allowed, at least from what I recall, was in National Geographic, and I don't even know the history or story behind that, so that's a separate question.

My hunch is that the 1952 photo in Life got by the censors because 1) the photo is used to illustrate an article about art, and in this case, life drawing, and 2) if one isn't looking closely the nude woman looks like a statue, not a real person. Did this photo get by the censors, or was it allowed? The reason I'm asking, is that aside from National Geographic in 1952, I was unaware of nude photos in major American media. There's probably a really interesting history behind this, so if someone knows the answer, I'm all ears. Viriditas (talk) 23:38, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Life Magazine treated art photography as art. Here is a 1948 example. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 04:59, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

It looks like things changed from 1947–1959 during the era of McCarthyism. Am I reading this right? Did the US become more conservative just before the rise of the counterculture in the 1960s? I was completely unaware that nude art photography was ever published in mainstream magazines. And it looks like it became quite liberal in the 1970s, swinging back to conservatism again in the 1980s. I remember in the 1970s there were all these seedy adult movie theaters that disappeared in the 1980s. Then in the late 1990s you had another liberalization occur. And now we're back to conservatism again. Viriditas (talk) 06:47, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Have you read Censorship in the United States? Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes. There’s nothing about this specific topic, namely art photography in magazines during this time. Viriditas (talk) 17:20, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

See also: Hays Code. 136.56.165.118 (talk) 20:41, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Possibly tangential, but The Pawnbroker (1964) was "the first film featuring bare breasts to receive Production Code approval. Although it was publicly announced to be a special exception, the controversy proved to be first of similar major challenges to the Code that ultimately led to its abrogation." -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 01:25, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

December 1

Who designed the flag of the American Indian Movement and when?

The flag of the American Indian Movement is fairly iconic and featured in the article about the movement. However I haven't been able to find any sources about who made the flag and when. Does anybody have any information on when it was first flown, who made it, etc? Thanks! Intervex (talk) 00:09, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Googling "who designed american indian movement flag" yields an AI item that says it was designed by someone named Jon Lurie. More about it here,[7] though it doesn't say when. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:45, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Looks like Lurie was the author of the encyclopedia entry, I'm afraid: [8]. Intervex (talk) 00:51, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Editing a Wikipedia subtitle (?) seen in Android but not Windows

When I open Charles-Émile Trudeau on my Android phone I see in what I will call a subtitle below his name that he was a "French Businessman (1887-1935)". (Charles-Émile Trudeau was father of Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau and grandfather of current Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.) But he was French-Canadian (born in Quebec), not French, and I would like to correct this.

But I prefer to edit on my computer in Windows, where I don't see "French Businessman..." at all.

What Wikipedia 'element' is the (visible only on Android) subtitle "French Businessman (1887-1935)", and how can I edit it in Windows? Hayttom (talk) 00:14, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

It's in the "Short description" (WP:SHORTDESC)... -- AnonMoos (talk) 00:27, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm in Windows, so it doesn't show up on the normal article page, but if you EDIT, it's the first line of the article. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:38, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you both, @AnonMoos and @Baseball Bugs for your quick supportive responses. The "how to edit" did not work for me - I don't see it the way it is described - but I do indeed see the Short Description when editing as @Baseball Bugs explained. Hayttom (talk) 00:43, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

If you go into your Preferences on desktop, in the Gadgets section there's a tick box under Editing which allows you to see and edit the short description. --Viennese Waltz 06:56, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

What can I cite about Tommy Lasorda pitching during batting practice?

This is obviously for Baseball Bugs... Our Charles-Émile Trudeau article leads to the Montreal Royals article which leads to our Tommy Lasorda article which does NOT mention him often (?) throwing pitches during Dodgers batting practice, which I think I saw him do (before an Expos game) but possibly only on TV. I Googled "tommy lasorda pitching batting practice" but I don't think that provided any good enough information source. Baseball Bugs, can you find one? (Do you remember seeing Tommy throwing pitches at batting practice?) Hayttom (talk) 01:07, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

That sounds familiar. I would have to look in Newspapers.com. There might be something in his obituary, if nothing else. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:15, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

There were a couple of anecdotes in the wake of Lasorda's death which mentioned him throwing batting practice, at least during the time he was a coach for the Dodgers. Don't know if he still did that once he became the Dodgers' manager. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:06, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

East Pakistan minorities

An editor named pigsonwing removed my question as trolling. Don't know why he thinks like that.

Above it is written that "We don't conduct original research or provide a free source of ideas, but we'll help you find information you need."

I read two Wikipedia articles 1950 East Pakistan riots and 1964 East Pakistan riots and thought how media reported it at that time when it happened.

I am trying to find more old newspaper archives like this:

1- https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/131860850?searchTerm=1950%20east%20pakistan%20hindu

2- https://www.nytimes.com/1950/02/24/archives/pakistan-incited-riots-says-nehru-india-leader-says-antihindu.html

3- https://www.nytimes.com/1964/01/24/archives/riots-arouse-moslem-shame.html

4- https://www.nytimes.com/1964/02/23/archives/hindus-and-christians-fleeing-east-pakistan-throngs-of-refugees.html Sistersofchappel (talk) 03:41, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Pinging @User:Pigsonthewing. Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:03, 1 December 2024 (UTC)