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July 22

Biking

During a hot summer in California, is it better to bike in the early morning or the evening? TWOrantula^TM (enter the web) 05:23, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Define "better". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:35, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

It's generally cooler in the early morning than in the early evening. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:59, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

☝🏽 that and traffic is usually lighter too, plus early morning cardio has health benefits. Folly Mox (talk) 10:58, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Airplane Engineers' Wages in the Late 1950s

Paul A. Suhler, From Rainbow to Gusto: Stealth and the Design of the Lockheed Blackbird (2009), p. 95:

Using a figure of $10 per hour, one week would cost $16,000. He (Kelly Johnson) added a profit of $500 per week and concluded, “For $225,000 can go full steam for 3 months” (Johnson, C. L., Archangel project design notebook, Lockheed ADP, Burbank, CA, entry for 26 April 1958, pg. 1).

It cost $16,000/week for a 40-man team to operate at full speed in 1958. I think this cost means wages + office costs (housing, utilities, many other things). How much money could an engineer make in the late 1950s? -- Toytoy (talk) 05:49, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

The 1960 census report (published in 1962) here shows "craftsmen, operatives, and kind" had a median income of $6,200. It also shows that salaries increased a great deal between 1950 and 1960, even when adjusted for 1960 dollars. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 14:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Navy ship Palestine

Hello everybody. At one time, Palestinian security forces used the former fishing trawler Chandalahe for military purposes; Israel damaged it in 2002 and since then it has been abandoned off the coast of Gaza. I wanted to know what his current fate is? Vyacheslav84 (talk) 15:33, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Google has no results for that name except your query. You might try Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships? Alansplodge (talk) 15:19, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. Vyacheslav84 (talk) 23:23, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Is this the transliteration of the name in Arabic?  --Lambiam 21:57, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

I do not know. Vyacheslav84 (talk) 23:23, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Do you have any accessible source mentioning this name?  --Lambiam 09:35, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Here the ship is named "Chindallah", and said to have been destroyed, although it may have been only "badly damaged".^[1] "Shindallah" (شيندالله?) looks like an Arabic name.  --Lambiam 10:05, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

July 23

Joseph Redford's autistic pride flag

I found this in the Autism article, and here's what's wrong with it:

• It appears to have been upscaled from a super low resolution.
• JPEG artifacts are noticable, especially upon magnification.
• There's a white dot in the infinity symbol and another white dot nearby in the golden region.

The Reference Desk may be a funny choice of place for me to bring up a shoddy image file, but this isn't the first time I had done that before. – MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 02:01, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Is that flag copyrighted? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:36, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

The uploader, Intervex, claims it isn't eligible for copyright because of its simplicity, but I don't know if that's true. After all, Seattle's flag is copyrighted. – MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 10:45, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

[Edit Conflict] I'm not an expert on copyright, but as a former professional editor have more than a layperson's grasp of it. In my judgement, this design is too complex to be ineligible for copyright and the licencing claim (which is on slightly different grounds anyway, go read) is mistaken.

It would not be surprising if the designer, Joseph Redford, had released it under a suitable CC licence, but we have no evidence of that, as it's not stated in the linked source.

However, flags are problematic, since they're meant to be publicly seen, analagous to heraldic coats of arms, which anyone writing about the arms' holder (for example) can depict without permission (a particular depiction may be copyright, but the point of arms, and usually flags, is that their essential details can be defined in words and redrawn from them). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 11:13, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

@MrPersonHumanGuy Do you have a reference desk question? If you wish to propose an improvement to any article the place to do so is the Talk page of that article, but the caption does make it clear that that is an old version. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:54, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

I have uploaded a photograph of the actual historic flag on display at People's History Museum during the 2023 "Nothing About Us Without Us" exhibition. If it is not used in the Autism article, it will eventually be deleted.  --Lambiam 11:09, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Which one is upside down, the image embedded or the photo linked in the previous comment? 12.116.29.106 (talk) 15:20, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

The photo appears to show the flag rotated through 180º. Normally the hoist should be on the left. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 15:49, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

File:Autistic Pride flag – Joseph Redford.png is about too be deleted. It was copied from https://phm.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Fabric-of-Protest-Get-Ready-June-2023.pdf, page 2.  --Lambiam 02:12, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

July 24

Looking for one book

Looking for one book. I only remember the beginning of the piece. Some guy found a derelict computer, sat down at it and started doing something, and then he saw a man with a gun walk up to the desk, they looked at each other in silence for a while, then the guy mechanically pressed the Enter button and the man shot him back. The work was read in the 1990s or very early 2000s. The piece appeared no later than the 1990s (probably earlier). I also remember that the guy was doing something enthusiastically on the computer: at first he typed without looking at the screen, but the message on the computer monitor made him do his work more slowly and carefully. The phrases went something like this. The message on the computer screen made him work more carefully. Behind the desk stood a man with a gun in his hand. The guy had never seen a real gun, except in the movies, but he knew immediately what it was. The guy's hand dropped mechanically to the Enter button, and the same second the black muzzle of the gun burst into flames, ending his life. Vyacheslav84 (talk) 08:27, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Just to be clear, was this a novel, occupying a full printed volume, or a shorter work, perhaps the first story in a collection or anthology? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.235 (talk) 12:50, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't remember. --Vyacheslav84 (talk) 13:21, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

What is the name of this fallacy?

What is the name of this fallacy?
1-A perfect man has the characteristics A, B and C.
2-Womans dont like a man with all the characteristics A, B and C.
3-So womans dont like a perfect man.

The problem here is that being perfect is about the result, if a woman dont like man X, he is not perfect, no matter what characteristics he has.
The fallacy implies having the characteristics A, B and C makes you perfect man, and then since this "A, B, C characteristics" man is not wanted by a girl, girls dont like perfect man.177.207.110.196 (talk) 14:14, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

See Fallacy of composition, Faulty generalization and Stereotyping. Modocc (talk) 14:56, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

The English sentences are somewhat ambiguous. "A man" can mean "some man" or "every man". Take the following syllogism:

1. Every perfect man has all the characteristics A, B and C.
2. There is no man with all the characteristics A, B and C who is liked by women.
3. Therefore, there is no perfect man who is liked by women.

In this form, it is IMO a valid syllogism.  --Lambiam 16:45, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree the wording is ambiguous. I interpreted it the same as you at first. But they added an additional condition below that; "if a woman dont like man X, he is not perfect", which means there is an additional statement: "2.5. Every perfect man is liked by women". The result of 1, 2, and 2.5 is "3A. Therefore, there are no perfect men". This, too, is logically consistent, and not a fallacy. Maybe the reason the original set of statements seems like a fallacy is that 1, 2 (and 2.5) are not really consistent with real life. Floquenbeam (talk) 21:40, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

I read "The problem here is that being perfect is about the result, if a woman dont like man X, he is not perfectt, no matter what characteristics he has." not as an additional statement to the syllogism, but as a rebuttal of it, implying that their first statement meant "some man" is "A perfect man...". Modocc (talk) 22:11, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

I find it difficult to interpret the sentence explaining the perceived problem with the syllogism, especally the part "being perfect is about the result" – the result of what, and why is that problematic? The best I can come up with for the rest of the sentence is that there is an additional premise:

4. A man who is not liked by some woman is not perfect.

Taking being liked by women to be a yes-or-no predicate, combining this prenise with the earlier conclusion 3 allows us to deduce that no man is perfect.  --Lambiam 22:44, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

The OP also wrote "The fallacy implies having the characteristics A, B and C makes you perfect man..." which confirms that not all men with these characteristics are perfect, only some are, which is why its conclusion is a hasty generalization. Modocc (talk) 22:48, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

The fallacy would include the assumption that A, B and C are sufficient to define perfection. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:04, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

The OP's syllogism comes as sad news to any perfect mans hoping for admiration from womans but ordinary literate men and women need not feel affected. Philvoids (talk) 21:10, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Don't be a jerk to people whose first language isn't English. Floquenbeam (talk) 21:29, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

I will explain myself better, when talking about a perfect man, the word perfect is about the results, a perfect man A if he wanted a woman B would be able to make her want to date him and not want to leave him and would love staying with him, all that with 100% certainty.
The fallacy comes from the fact that the person saying all that, is implying that having characteristics A, B and C makes you perfect, what makes someone perfect is the result and not the characteristics he has (unless some set of characteristics leads to him ALWAYS having the result and this is not the case with characteristics A, B and C alone). After seeing that a girl didnt wanted a guy with characteristics A, B and C (that he implied it meant the guy was perfect), he says that because of that it means girls wont like a perfect man.
Another example, lets imagine that assuming perfect play you can always wins chess as white, an related example would be.
1-A perfect chess player has the characteristics A, B and C.
2-A player with those characteristics playing as white lost the game.
3-This means being a perfect player doenst imply that you will win as white.
Again a perfect chess player is one that always win, he implies that some characteristics make some player perfect and assume something based at what happened with a player that has his own definition of perfect player.177.207.110.147 (talk) 00:50, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

For this to be a fallacy the conclusion 3 is either false or not implied, because being a perfect player means they win. Check. Then 2 someone with characteristics A, B and C loses. Check. The loser shares these characteristics with either all or some perfect players. Check. So 1 and 2 are not sufficient to conclude 3. Thus its a faulty generalization. Correct? Modocc (talk) 01:20, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

"For this to be a fallacy the conclusion 3 is either false or not implied". 3 is false.

"The loser shares these characteristics with either all or some perfect players. " They dont share those characteristics with perfect players , the person saying thing 1 implied those characteristics make someone perfect, this came out of his own mind, one characteristic that would make someone perfect is to have the endgame tablebase up to 32 pieces (max amount of pieces you can have at chess) and also never misclick/mouse slip when playing chess (so the move he want to make and the move he make is the same) and also be able to move really fast (needed if they are playing fast time controls)177.207.110.147 (talk) 01:49, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

It can be a valid argument even if the 1st premise is false and the conclusion is wrong. See False premise. Modocc (talk) 02:06, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

With a false premise the argument is unsound. Modocc (talk) 02:43, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

It's a Fallacy of presumption. Modocc (talk) 03:23, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

The objection to the conclusion relies on a premise not given in the syllogism: that a perfect chess player always wins as white (or that the perfect man is liked by women). Since that's not a premise given in the syllogism, the conclusion is perfectly valid. --Avocado (talk) 00:52, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Perfectly valid sure but unsound, nevertheless, when its premise(s) are known to be false. Thus, it is an informal fallacy, and the name of the fallacy is what the OP requested and it's listed in the article as a fallacy of presumption. It's a fallacy that frequently occurs with paradigm shifts. Modocc (talk) 01:05, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

July 25

Are Personal communications service (NANP) mobile numbers?

Personal communications service mentions that:

A personal communications service (PCS) is set of communications capabilities that provide a combination of terminal mobility, personal mobility, and service profile management.

Does it means that Personal communications service (NANP) are mobile numbers because of providing mobility? I cannot find the mention of ‘mobile numbers’ in NANP or List of North American Numbering Plan area codes. 49.182.135.140 (talk) 01:24, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Most mobile numbers on the NANP, in the sense of telephone numbers assigned to mobile cellular devices, do not have a geography-based area code; although the first three digits of such numbers are commonly referred to as their "area code", this is a bit of a misnomer then. In the USA these mobile numbers have a 5XX "area code". However, according to North American Numbering Plan § Non-geographic services, the converse is not always true: personal communications service 5XX numbers can also be for fixed devices (not using a cellular network).  --Lambiam 11:59, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Punjabi and Bengali instruction language university

Which universities in Punjab, India and Pakistan are known to give instructions or lectures in Punjabi and which universities in West Bengal are known to give instructions in Bengali? I was under the impression that all universities in Punjab, India; Punjab, Pakistan and West Bengal in India give only in Hindi and English. Please do enlighten. Donmust90 Donmust90 (talk) 16:46, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

July 26

Name for type of interchange

At coordinates 34.79749785424678, -82.37485296822788, there is an interchange. On both sides of the highway, there is a short side roadway that has multiple on and offramps. I've been looking at interchange designs, but I can't find an example of this "multi-interchange" with a proper name. I would like a reference that includes this interchange design. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 16:04, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

That looks like a collector-distributor interchange. —C.Fred (talk) 16:06, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. That looks correct. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 16:32, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

July 27

Extraterrestrial orbiters update?

What's the latest data telling us about Jupiter from Juno and about Venus from Akatsuki? Have we learned anything new and interesting lately? Viriditas (talk) 01:05, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Juno news is still being updated here. Akatsuki news hasn't had updates, but the old articles are still getting minor updates here. 75.136.148.8 (talk) 11:29, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Boom box batteries

In Do the Right Thing, one of the characters needs 20 D batteries for his boombox. What sort of boombox would require 20 D batteries, or was that simply a fictional exaggeration? How many and what kind of batteries would one expect to use for a boombox of the size shown in the movie? 2601:18A:C500:E830:526A:B17D:E5EF:4ACD (talk) 04:25, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

[2] Modocc (talk) 05:27, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

So, 10 D batteries then. 2601:18A:C500:E830:526A:B17D:E5EF:4ACD (talk) 05:41, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

My understanding is you would need 20 at a time because the 10 wouldn't last long enough. Viriditas (talk) 08:52, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

You've got to fight the power consumption. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:06, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

July 28

Multiplication memorization

I remember back in elementary school, one of my classmates said he memorized multiplication tables by assigning a gender and color to each equation. For example, he would say eight times nine was male and purple and five times eight was female and brown. Is there a name for this phenomenon, and does this actually work? TWOrantula^TM (enter the web) 02:49, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Grapheme–color synesthesia.-Gadfium (talk) 04:38, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Synesthesia is likely a natural in-born perception while the OP's classmate voluntarily cultivates an unusual (two-dimensional) form of Mnemonic. These can aid memory because we more easily remember spatial, personal, surprising, physical, sexual, humorous and otherwise "relatable" information than more abstract or impersonal forms of information. Philvoids (talk) 13:46, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

July 30

National Identity perceived

Hello. Small curiosity; I don't know if a census was taken at the time or something, but when England won the World Cup in 1966, what was the perceived national identity in the country that year, (England alone); did people describe themselves as more English or more British? Thank you very much. 2.45.43.119 (talk) 12:51, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Identifying as English or British is not exclusive of one another. A person can authentically identify as both. It is based on need. Your IP looks up to the United States, so in a American sense, a person can identify as Cajun, Louisianian, and American all at the same time, with none of those identities taking away from another identity or being more of an identity than any other identity. It is based on need. If asked for identity while in New Orleans, the person would likely claim to be Cajun. If asked for an identity at the Delta hub in Atlanta, the person might identify as Louisianian. If asked for identity at the Olymics in France, the person might identify as American. Similarly, a person might identify as English while in Britain, but as British while outside Britain, and even go further to identify as a Londoner if in Manchester. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 17:16, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

The English/British nationality issue is complex and evolving, but my impression (I was 8 in 1966) was that English and British were used interchangeably by English people in the 1960s. Note that there was no question about ethnicity in the UK census until the 1991 United Kingdom census and then "White British" was the only option for "indigenous" people (for want of a better term).

For the current situation, see National identity, England and Wales: Census 2021 Alansplodge (talk) 18:16, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

@Alansplodge: I'm only a couple of years older than you, but certainly we were taught the difference between British and English. Possibly a north/south or London/rest of the UK issue? We lived in Yorkshire and I'm of mixed Yorkshire/Scottish parentage.

One can have been taught the distinction and yet use the terms interchangeably in informal speech.  --Lambiam 08:35, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

It is important to note (as no article should ever say) that the modern precise use of these words was elided in the past by metonymy and other close concepts. The precise concept would have been considered clear by context. You will find in some older texts free use of England for Britain (perhaps also the English identity was smudged into British more than others), and Britain (or even England) for the British Empire or Commonwealth.

Nonetheless by the sixties this usage was obsolete as far as I know. I certainly knew growing up in this era that I was English and British (and European), though it was primarily a factual matter. When we visited our Swiss friends to watch Jeux son frontier we cheered the British and Swiss teams equally. In the event that a non-English British team won something we thought this was a good thing.

I'm inclined to believe that most of the English have no trouble identifying as British, even after an English sporting success.

All the best: Rich Farmbrough 13:58, 1 August 2024 (UTC).

Although a Londoner, my parents were Scottish and Cornish, so I was well aware of the difference between English and British, but my impression was/is that not everyone was so particular in the 1960s. Witness the number of Union Jacks at Wembley. By way of a reference, I found:

In the 1970s and 1980s, it became clear that Britain is a multi-national state... England is the dominant region by far; therefore, the English saw little distinction between "English" and "British".

A History of the Peoples of the British Isles: From 1870 to the Present by Thomas Heyck (2019) p. 285

Alansplodge (talk) 19:24, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

August 1

Has time been going faster?

I'm still trying to comprehend how we're almost two-thirds done with the year. It's weird how I can remember my family and I celebrating New Year's back in the beginning of the year. Then I wondered, "Has time sped up since the pandemic?" TWOrantula^TM (enter the web) 20:28, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Once you're over the hill, time speeds up because you're headed downhill. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:42, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

See Time perception. It speeds up with age. Modocc (talk) 21:59, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

August 2

Weather website

Is there any European weather website similar to AccuWeather, The Weather Channel and Wunderground that eiuld offer forecasts, national and global weather news and other such things? Are there any English-language sites that are such? --40bus (talk) 16:46, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

European countries each have their own weather bureaus, but they generally share their data with the sites you already mentioned and more. If you go to the Nordic Weather Service (Yr.no) for example, you'll see forecasts for the whole world. My favourite on mobile is Yr and the UK Met Office, on desktop the BBC. I am in the UK, and in terms of weather warnings and video forecasts specifically, they (except for Yr) cater specifically for UK audiences. For foreign forecasts, Wunderground on desktop is perfectly fine but their app has a bit of 'nonsense'. Komonzia (talk) 00:02, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

August 3

Simone Biles and marker pen

Biles and marker pen

Why did Simone Biles hold a marker pen with five (or four) fingers rather than two, as did other women in the picture and most other people while writing or drawing? 212.180.235.46 (talk) 19:00, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Some people hold a pen in different ways. --Viennese Waltz 19:01, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Look up "types of pencil grips" on Google Images and you'll see a variety. Also look up videos of her signing autographs. It might be that this is how she's most comfortable signing autographs dozens of times a day. Komonzia (talk) 23:51, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

If you hold a pen with less than four fingers, you get a 0.1 deduction. Them's the rules of penmanship gymnastics! Clarityfiend (talk) 09:47, 4 August 2024 (UTC)