Wikipedia:Translation/Max Bense

Projet Traduction This page is part of Wikipedia Translation and keeps track of all information and discussions about this translation. For more details, see: Wikipedia:Translation/*/How-to.

Talk

Thank you, Tirkfl, for the excellent translation. This is the first time I have commented on an ongoing translation, so I hope I am doing this correctly. I'm sorry that I am not very familiar with philosophy. I am a native speaker of American English, so I have that viewpoint in my comments.

It would be wonderful if the picture of Mr. Bense which is on the German page were also added to the English page. I believe it is in Wikicommons.

Section: Life

first paragraph:

I would use the term "deported", rather than "banished", for "ausgewiesen".

I would translate "Ab 1920" as "Starting in 1920", rather than "Since 1920".

I would translate "Gegner" as "opponent", rather than "detractor".

I would translate "NS-Staates" as "Nazi regime", rather than "NS-regime". (I believe that the term Nazi is used as an abbreviation for "nationalsozialistische" more commonly in English.)

The original text says: Eine Habilitation wurde ihm darum verwehrt. The translation says: Therefore he was not promoted to professor. Perhaps these are equivalent, but what I get from the German is more like: Therefore he did not receive his postdoctoral qualification. (At least according to my dictionary.)

second paragraph:

"he was soldier" should be "he was a soldier". Similarly, "medical technician" should be "a medical technician".

Since "habilitation" seems to be a procedure that doesn't exist as such in English-speaking countries, it might be better to state this sentence differently. I'd change "offered him the possibility of a probably cumulative habilitation" to be something like "offered him the possibility of postdoctoral work (habilitation), which was likely to be cumulative."

"a appointment" should be "an appointment".

third paragraph:

I'd change "and in 1949 he became guest professor and in 1950 professor extraordinarius for philosophy and science theory at the University of Stuttgart" to be something like "and he was appointed as a guest professor in philosophy and theory of science by the University of Stuttgart in 1949, and as senior lecturer (associate professor) there in 1950." Senior lecturer seems to be the British term for it and associate professor the American term, according to my dictionary.

I'd change "professor ordinarius" to be "full professor".

fourth paragraph:

I'd translate "Daneben" to "In addition", rather than "Alongside".

fifth paragraph:

"Beziehungsweise" is often a difficult term to translate. I would state: "Daneben wirkte er von 1953 bis 1958 an der Volkshochschule Ulm bzw. an der dortigen Hochschule für Gestaltung" rather more like "In addition, he worked at the adult education center and at the College of Design in Ulm from 1953 to 1958"

I'd say "he was also guest professor", rather than "further he was guest professor". sixth paragraph:

I'd say he "became professor emeritus", rather than that he "became emeritus".

"an international accredited scientist" should be "an internationally accredited scientist".

Section: Mathematics in art and language

first paragraph:

I'd remove "the" in front of "theoretical philosophy". It would probably be better to use "combined" rather than "combines" in this sentence.

"Sprachmaterial" seems difficult to translate. I'd suggest something like "components of language" or "elements of language", rather than "language material".

I think "In Umkehrung" would be better translated as "Conversely", rather than "Reciprocally".

Is "entwarf" really "sketching", or is it more like "designing"?

I'd use "works of literary art" for "Sprachkunstwerken", rather than "language-artworks".

For "die gemeinsam entstanden und zu einander ergänzenden Denkformen gewachsen sind", I'd say something like "which have a common origin and have grown into complementary modes of thought", rather than "which are both of the same origin and have grown to complementary thinking modes of thought". (It is certainly difficult to translate philosophical concepts between languages!)

The sentence: "Die atomistischen Strukturen der beiden Sprachformen sah er als gleichwertig an, die aus nicht deutbaren Grundelementen (Zeichen) und Regeln bzw. Operatoren eine Bedeutung tragende, Information vermittelnde und stilistisch geformte Sprache ermöglichen" -- my goodness! I'd say something like, "He considered the atomic (indivisible) structures of the two linguistic modes to be equivalent. By using non-interpretable basic elements (characters) and rules or operators, these forms give meaning, impart information and make stylistically formed language possible."

The phrase "and to be defined not until their use" would be better as "and not to be defined until they are used", I think.

The word "reception" for "Rezeption" doesn't seem quite right to me. Is the article using this to mean the same as "Aufnahme"? If so, it might be better translated as "assimilation" or "integration" or "incorporation".

second paragraph:

"Some of Benses knowledge are based on" should be "Some of Bense's knowlege is based on".

Section: Technic and ethics

"Technics" isn't right. Is it "technology"?

first paragraph:

I'm not sure what is meant here by "bürgerlichen Welt". Is it the "civilian world" (as opposed to military), or is it the "middle-class world", or perhaps even the "everyday world" (alltaeglichen Welt)?

The translation of "durchdachten" doesn't seem clear to me. I think I'd say "gave thought to" or "thought about".

I'd translate "anders als manche Zeitgenossen" as "unlike many of his contemporaries", rather than "differently minded than his contemporaries".

"ethic questions" should be "ethical questions".

The term "technics ethics" doesn't sound quite right. Perhaps "the ethics of technology"?

The phrase "which were discussed in technics ethics not until the following decades" would probably be better as "which were not discussed in the ethics of technology until decades later".

Again, "technics" should probably be "technology".

This sentence: "Seine von Walter Benjamin beeinflusste pragmatische Sichtweise der Technik ohne Fortschrittsglauben und -ablehnung trug ihm die Kritik Adornos ein – und damit erneut die Rolle der Opposition." is another difficult one. I'd suggest something like: "His pragmatic view of technology, influenced by Walter Benjamin, which lacked either belief in progress or its rejection, brought him the criticism of Theodor W. Adorno -- and again put him in the role of the opposition."

Section: Structural analysis of language

first paragraph:

In this part: "Bense tried to relativise resp. to extend the traditional view of literature", "resp." isn't the right word for "beziehungsweise". I'd use "or" here.

Does the verb "relativieren" mean something closer to "put into perspective" here?

For "Darin", I'd use "In this" or "In that", rather that "Therewith".

Instead of "interdisciplinarily investigated them", "investigated them interdisciplinarily" would be somewhat better, but might be even better with the longer phrase "investigated them across disiplinary boundaries" or something along those lines. It's just awkward in English.

In this long sentence: "Thus Bense became the first theoretician of concrete poetry, which was started by Eugen Gomringer in 1953, which encouraged e.g. Helmut Heißenbüttel, Claus Bremer, Reinhard Döhl, Ludwig Haring, and Franz Mon to perform further experiments, and which also had influence on Ernst Jandl's language deconstruction (see also Stuttgarter Gruppe/Schule).", it looks to me like there are too many "which"s. How about something like: "Thus Bense became ..., which was started ..., and encouraged ..., and also had influence ..."?

Section: Discussion with writers

"Bense begnügte sich bei seiner Beschäftigung mit Literatur und literarischer Sprache nicht nur mit theoretischen Überlegungen" I'd state a bit differently. How about something like: "In his work with literature and literary language, Bense was not content with only theoretical considerations"

"understandings" should be "understanding".

Section: Understandings of science

"Understandings" should be "Understanding".

first paragraph:

This sentence: "Aus dieser Wissenschaftsauffassung erhoffte er sich gleichermaßen fortschrittliche Erkenntnisse, die stets ethisch zu hinterfragen sind, wie auch die Vermeidung von Regression." might be best worded as "From this concept of science, he hoped for progressive knowledge, which must always be ethically scrutinized, and at the same time, for the prevention of regression."

In the next sentence, "damit" might be better translated as "Because of that" or even "thus", rather than "So".

second paragraph:

Another "Damit" which could be translated as I mentioned above.

Section: Publications

In the last two publications, "from the inheritance" should be "from his unpublished works" or "from his estate".

Section: Secondary literature

In the last reference, I suspect that "Geheftet" means "stapled", if it is fastened with metal staples by a stapler (Heftmaschine). Please check.

Section: External links

"Chronologic Bibliography of Benses publications and broadcasts" should be "Chronological Bibliography of Bense's publications and broadcasts"

By the way, the abbreviation "pp." is generally used to mean "pages".

Again, thank you very much for a very good translation of a difficult Wiki article.

Scbarry 00:04, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Instructions

For the historical instructions see Template:Translation/Instructions