Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Battle of Puketutu

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Gog the Mild (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 13:20, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Puketutu

Instructions for nominators and reviewers

Nominator(s): Zawed (talk)

In late 2021, I brought what I believed to be the first article relating to the New Zealand Wars to be nominated for an A-Class review; that was the Siege of Ngatapa, an engagement that took place at the tail end of the New Zealand Wars. The present A-Class nomination, Battle of Puketutu, relates to one of the earliest engagements of the conflict, taking place in 1845 as part of the Flagstaff War. It was the first time that the British attacked an inland pā, and they discovered to their cost that these types of fortifications were not easily overcome. I created this article at the start of the year, put it through the GA process, and now present it for consideration for A-Class. As always, thanks in advance to those who take the time to have a look. Zawed (talk) 04:51, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

HF

Will review later this week. Hog Farm _Talk 01:10, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Once it became apparent how difficult it would be travel there" - does this work in NZ English? It isn't grammatical in AmEng

Have revised this sentence. Zawed (talk) 22:23, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A thought - would it be better to clarify in the infobox that it was the crews of Hazard and North Star involved? Just listing the ships implies a traditional naval ship vs. shore supporting role, at least to me

Have added, Zawed (talk) 09:58, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Used for grazing livestock, State Highway 1 runs past the location" - this needs rephrased somehow - it currently implies that the highway itself is used as pasture, not the battlefield

Yes, I hadn't noticed that. Revised. Zawed (talk) 22:23, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Any of the sources say why Heke abandoned the pa?

Not my sources to hand, but there is one (Crosby) at my library that I will need to check. I have a recollection of reading somewhere that it was traditional to abandon a pa after an engagement where lives were lost, will look into this more. Zawed (talk) 22:23, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I haven't found anything to match my recollection about abandoning a pa due to loss of life, but it turns out Belich provided some context on the strategy for the siting of Heke's pa, which goes someway to addressing your query. I have added an explanatory paragraph to the final portion of the Government response, and adapted the first paragraph of the Aftermath section. Zawed (talk) 09:58, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Early historians of the Flagstaff War incorrectly referred to the site as being Ōkaihau, which was actually Nene's pā a few kilometres to the west" - while the source does confirm that this was occurring as of 1922, it doesn't really support that only early historians were making this error

I have revised the note somewhat. Zawed (talk) 09:58, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is a very brief description of how the British destroyed the Pomare coastal pa, worthwhile, since the aftermath section implies that inland pas had special considerations for their defeat?

Have added. Zawed (talk) 09:58, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look fine; I did not check image licensing. Good work here; anticipate supporting. Hog Farm _Talk 03:30, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hog Farm, thanks for taking a look at this. I have responded to your points above. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 09:58, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Changes look good to me; supporting. Hog Farm _Talk 02:02, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Nick-D

It's always good to see New Zealand Wars-related topics developed to a high standard. I have the following comments:

"sending 140 men of the 96th Regiment as a garrison" - were were they sent from? (elsewhere in NZ, or Australia?)

The 96th was in Auckland, have added. Zawed (talk) 07:40, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Heke also had a 6-pounder cannon in the pā" - do we know where this gun was aquired from?

No - I had thought that it might have been scavenged after the fighting at Kororāreka but according to Cowan, all the guns there were spiked so would have been useless. Zawed (talk) 07:40, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd suggest providing a short summary of the remainder of this war, or at least its next steps, in the 'Aftermath' section Nick-D (talk) 10:48, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Zawed: I'll be travelling overseas from mid this week, and may take a few days to respond to your comments here. Nick-D (talk) 00:27, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, it might take me a day or two to work up an appropriately worded summary anyway. Safe travels. Zawed (talk) 07:40, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Have added a largish paragraph to wrap up the rest of the war. Zawed (talk) 09:42, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That looks great - I'm very pleased to support this nomination. Nick-D (talk) 22:31, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by PM

Great to see those New Zealand Wars articles coming through. Always thoroughly interesting.

Fitzroy should be FitzRoy presumably?

Fixed. Zawed (talk) 03:10, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

which regiment in NSW sent the troops?

Have clarified that this was the 58th Regiment. Zawed (talk) 03:10, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

how many were in the original force Hulme sailed with? I see this is provided later, but I would move it up to where they left Auckland.

Have moved. Zawed (talk) 03:10, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Down to Prelude. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:53, 20 October 2023 (UTC)]][reply]

As noted, I reckon you'd better off moving the orbat up to when they leave Auckland.

Done. Zawed (talk) 03:10, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

was the 6-pounder fired in the battle? Were there usually gun ports in a pa?

This 6-pounder has been the source of a bit of frustration (see Nick's review above)! Its presence in the pa was noted in one source; the wording suggests that it was only after the pa was abandoned that its presence was known, but this source was also silent on the origin and use, if any, of the 6-pounder. I suspect it wasn't used at all as I am sure it would have been mentioned elsewhere if it had been. Zawed (talk) 03:10, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's it, great job! Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 11:44, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @Peacemaker67:, have responded above. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 03:10, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All good, supporting. Presumably the gun was just booty at that point. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:14, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sources & images

I note that HogFarm has already okayed the sources, but I will just add one, very minor point:

Short reference #49 should have a "pp" not a "p".

Oops, fixed. Zawed (talk) 02:06, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The images similarly look good:

File:Battle of Puketutu by John Williams.jpg: Is suitably captioned and licensed. Consider adding alt text.
File:Flag of the United Tribes of New Zealand.svg: Requires a license for the original design. The current license is an "Own work assumed", which clearly isn't appropriate.
File:HekeKawiti1846.jpg: Is suitably captioned and licensed, but could do with the source link in Commons updating, as it is dead. Consider adding alt text.
File:Storming of John Heki's pah, New Zealand, on the 8th. of May 1845 (cropped).jpg: Is suitably captioned and licensed. Consider adding alt text.

- Harrias ^{(he/him) • talk} 18:42, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have deleted the flag images and added alt text for the remaining images. I also fixed the source link for the HekeKawiti1846.jpg image. Thanks for looking at this. Zawed (talk) 02:33, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Harrias, are the images good now? Gog the Mild (talk) 11:18, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Gog the Mild Yeah, all good. Harrias ^{(he/him) • talk} 12:09, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.