Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Operation Leader

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by AustralianRupert (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 08:07, 7 October 2016 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Operation Leader

Nominator(s): Nick-D (talk) and Manxruler

This article covers the only offensive operation conducted by the US Navy in northern Europe during World War II. Operation Leader involved aircraft flying from the USS Ranger attacking a concentration of German shipping near Bodø in northern Norway during October 1943. The German defenders were taken by surprise, and it's believed that five ships were sunk and seven damaged. In common with most of the Western Allies' operations by this stage of the war, Operation Leader was a multinational affair, with the aircraft carrier sailing with many British warships from the Home Fleet and Norwegian secret agents and airmen providing intelligence to guide the American aircraft.

This is a joint nomination with Manxruler, with whom I have enjoyed working with again to recently develop the article to GA status. As a result, it draws on both English language and Norwegian sources to provide a detailed coverage of the operation. The article has been expanded and copy edited since passing its GAN, and we're hopeful that it now meets the A-class criteria. Thank you in advance for your comments. Nick-D (talk) 11:59, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: what is the copyright status of the memorial pictured in File:Memorial_pilots_from_USS_Ranger_in_Fagervika.JPG? Nikkimaria (talk) 21:04, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'll have a look at the details surrounding the memorial, and check what Norwegian copyright laws say about such things. Manxruler (talk) 00:32, 22 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately the guidance at Commons says that freedom of perspective only applies to buildings in Norway. Nick-D (talk) 08:11, 25 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there is no freedom of panorama for works of art in Norway (applies until the artist responsible has been deceased for 70 years). The memorial was erected in 1987 and consists of one of the three blades of the propeller of an Avenger aircraft shot down in the operation. The propeller was recovered from the sea in 1987, one blade used in this memorial, one sent to the US and one kept on display in a Norwegian Home Guard base (will add this info to the article soon).

The question is, is an aircraft propeller blade mounted on a rock a work of art? If it is a work of art, then it is under copyright. I could find no mention anywhere of an artist, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Manxruler (talk) 14:28, 25 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm working on adding info on the memorial, will have to visit a library to complete the job, which I'll do tomorrow. Manxruler (talk) 04:08, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria: I've replaced the Commons version of this image with a small fair use version. As the memorial is discussed in the article and it's not possible to get a guaranteed to be free equivalent, I think that the fair use claim is sound. Nick-D (talk) 10:45, 4 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support on prose per my standard disclaimer. These are my edits. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. - Dank (push to talk) 01:38, 23 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Dank Nick-D (talk) 08:10, 25 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments:Support
- Tool checks ok - no dabs, external links work, no duplicate links, no errors with ref consolidation, images have alt text, Earwig tool reveals no issues with copyright violation or close paraphrase [1] (no action req'd);
- "...Rear Admiral Hustvedt remained in command..." its probably not necessary to include Hustvedt's rank here per WP:SURNAME;
  - Fixed Nick-D (talk) 23:07, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "...escorted by 8 Wildcat fighters...", should "8" here be spelt out (i.e. "eight") per WP:MOSNUM?
  - Done Nick-D (talk) 23:07, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Prose is a little repetitive here: "According to some sources 200 of the troops were killed, while Norwegian sources state that only one Norwegian sailor and a small number of German soldiers were killed. According to..." ("according to" used twice in close proximity to start a sentence, perhaps reword one slightly to vary the language?)
  - Tweaked Nick-D (talk) 23:07, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Minor inconsistency in use of both "World War II" and "Second World War";
  - Standardised on World War II as this article is focused on the actions of US forces Nick-D (talk) 23:07, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Minor inconsistency in the use of both "percent" and "%" (I think "percent" is more accurate per WP:PERCENT;
  - Standardised to "percent" Nick-D (talk) 23:07, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Minor inconsistency in presentation of isbns (some with hyphens, some without);
  - Standardised on no hyphens Nick-D (talk) 23:07, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I made a few edits [2] (pls review to check you don't disagree with anything I changed);
- Otherwise this article reads very well to me and is of a high standard, only a few minor points above to sort through / discuss. Anotherclown (talk) 21:39, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks a lot for your review and edits Nick-D (talk) 23:07, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    - All my points have been addressed so I have added my support now. Anotherclown (talk) 23:39, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support ~~Comments~~

Copyedited a bit but it generally read very well to me; let me know if any issues with my changes.
Structure and level of detail seem appropriate.
I'll take Nikki's image review as read.
Reference-wise, formatting looks okay, but a couple of points:
- "Cap Guir, assessed by Stern as probably destroyed, survived the damage inflicted by the American aircraft at Bodø, but was sunk by Soviet torpedo bombers in the Baltic in April 1945." -- if we explicitly mention Stern saying one thing, perhaps we should also mention inline who says the other.
  - German sources say Cap Guir was sunk in the Baltic. Will clarify that. Manxruler (talk) 12:41, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  - Done Manxruler (talk) 17:31, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Great to see all the Norwegian references to go with the usual British and American but it seems to throw into sharp relief the relative lack of German sources, unless I missed some... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:25, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  - Have found a few German reliable sources, will add those, as well as go looking in my personal collection and the library nearby me. Manxruler (talk) 12:41, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  - Working on adding some sources now, haven't been able to visit the library yet, though. Manxruler (talk) 17:31, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Ian Rose and Manxruler: Is this now resolved? It might be something to work on after the ACR (I think that this article should be able to meet the FA criteria with a bit more work). Nick-D (talk) 04:16, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      - Have added two German sources (Rohwer and Schwadtke), hope this helps. I am going to look for more at my local library as soon as I can, but at the moment this is what I've found after going through my personal collection and what is available online. Manxruler (talk) 05:50, 26 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        Okay, I think that'll do for now, happy to support. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:06, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        Thanks Ian Nick-D (talk) 09:39, 7 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.