Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Radoje Pajović

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Hawkeye7 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 06:20, 7 June 2023 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Radoje Pajović

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Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (talk)

Featured article candidates/Radoje Pajović/archive1

I came to this article via a key text that Pajović wrote which I used in my first FA, Pavle Đurišić, a controversial Montenegrin Chetnik leader of WWII. Pajović is considered the most prominent historian of the World War II period in Montenegro, and one of the most prominent Montenegrin historians overall. He did his PhD on the WWII Chetnik Federalist movement in Montenegro, and was on the faculty of what is now the Faculty of Philosophy at the University of Montenegro for forty years. He wrote or co-wrote twelve books, and railed against historical revisionism of the WWII period in Montenegro and in the former Yugoslavia more generally. He died in 2019. This article went through a GAN by Hawkeye7 late last year. Have at it! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:36, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by CPA

Just a comment for now. The section "Career and legacy" is big for this article maybe split it? Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 13:59, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fair comment, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:25, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - pass

Sole image is a properly-used fair use image Hog Farm _Talk 15:55, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks HF! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:19, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild

"Internationally, he has been dubbed "the most prominent historian of the [World War II] period in Montenegro" ". The MoS on quotations: "[t]he source must be named in article text if the quotation is an opinion". Emphasis in original.

Added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:21, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"and "19 December Award" ". Add a definite article?

Sure, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:21, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"in his childhood associated himself closely with the movement" → 'in his childhood he associated himself closely with the movement'.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:21, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Pajović married Ljilja". Seems a cursory introduction of Ljilja.

Have not been able to find his wife's full or maiden names or where she was from. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:21, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Spent a while searching myself and could not find anything either. –Vipz (talk) 02:47, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Pajović made a major contribution to the Institute of History over forty years". Given that you open the section by referencing his forty years, maybe something like 'Pajović made a major contribution to the Institute of History during his forty years there'?

Sure, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:21, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"who committed many massacres". Maybe 'who carried out many massacres'?

Better, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:21, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That is all I have. Well up A class, so I am supporting, but you may wish to consider the suggestions above. Gog the Mild (talk) 11:23, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Gog, all done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:21, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Pendright

Lead:

His most notable works were Kontrarevolucija u Crnoj Gori: četnički i federalistički pokret 1941—1945 [Counterrevolution in Montenegro: The Chetnik and Federalist Movements 1941–1945] published in 1977, Pavle Đurišić: kontroverzni četnički vojvoda [Pavle Đurišić: Controversial Chetnik Duke], first published in 1987 and then supplemented and expanded and re-published in 2005, and Crna Gora kroz istoriju [Montenegro Through History] also published in 2005.

His most notable works "have been"?

But he's dead, so the simple past tense is more appropriate than the present perfect tense, is it not? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:32, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

<>True, but did his most notable works die too?

Have been and has been are used to mean that something began in the past and has lasted into the present time.It's your call! Pendright (talk) 17:23, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My understanding of the difference is that simple past tense refers to a situation of the past (definitely before the present) and without connection to the present (not implying anything about what may be true now), and present perfect tense refers to a situation of the past but in an unspecified manner that may continue to the present time. So, it seems to me that simple past tense is best in this situation. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:26, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

He was the author or co-author of twelve books, the editor of more than twenty, and published around one hundred articles and other contributions.

and [he] published

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:32, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Early life:

He attened high school in Nikšić, [and] then in 1957 [Pajović] commenced studying at the Department of History at the University of Belgrade Faculty of Philosophy.

Suggest the above changes

Went with a variation. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:33, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

He spent a year working in the archives of the Central Committee of the League of Communists of Montenegro, before commencing work the following year at the Institute of History at the Pedagogical College in Cetinje (later the Faculty of Philosophy, University of Montenegro).

[for] the institute

Ok, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:33, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pajović married Ljilja, and they had two children: a daughter, Tanja; and a son, Neven.

Drop the comma after Ljilja
Ljilja -> Is this her entire name?
Replace the semi colon after Tanja with a comma

As noted above, I have been unable to establish her maiden name or where she was from. Otherwise, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:33, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Career:

As a historian, he mainly concentrated on the modern history of Montenegro, specialising in World War II, for which he was "highly respected both at home and abroad... ::Drop the comma after WWII

I actually think it is necessary, but tweaked the sentence fragment after to make it clearer. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:42, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pajović also edited more than twenty books, published around one hundred articles and other contributions,[1] and made a "significant contribution to Montenegr in historiography",[2] according to Miljić.[2]

and [he] made a

OK, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:42, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

He participated in the writing of the history of the League of Communists of Yugoslavia and the history of the League of Communists of Montenegro, was the president of the Association of Historians of Montenegro and a member of the presidency of the Association of Historians of Yugoslavia.

[and Pajović] was the president

went with "he". Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:42, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

According to Miljić, Pajović made a major contribution to the Institute of History over forty years.[2]

[for] over forty years

actually it is meant in terms of his contribution across the forty years, not that he made a major contribution in all of his forty years. Reworded. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:42, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Legacy and death

In the 1990s, in the countries that emerged from the dissolution of Yugoslavia, a politically-motivated popular trend in historiography was the historical rehabilitation of World War II figures who collaborated with the Axis powers and were involved in massacres of civilians during the war.

during the 1990s

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:23, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

These included attempts to erect monuments in honor of Pavle Đurišić, an Axis collaborator who committed many massacres in the Sandzak region of Montenegro, and Puniša Račić, a Montenegrin Serb politician who murdered three and wounded two more Croat politicians on the floor of the National Assembly of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes in June 1928.

This sentence is a bit long?

Split and reworded. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:23, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

He also claimed that historical evidence confirms the existence of an autocephalous Montenegrin Orthodox Church, and that it had been unlawfully abolished by force by Prince Regent Alexander of Yugoslavia in 1920.[2][7]

abolished [through] force

not with you there, "abolished by force" means using physical power. That is what was done in this case. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:23, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Andrijašević went on to say that Pajović did not modify his historical conclusions for political purposes, but remained true to the facts.

but [he] remained

Sure, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:23, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Andrijašević concluded by decrying the fact that the event had to be organised by the Association of Fighters and Anti-Fascists and not by the Institute of History, and condemned Pajović's former colleagues at the Institute who specialised in World War II history for not attending the event, stating that this was indicative of a malaise within the study and teaching of history in Montenegro.[3]

The sentence exceeds 60 wora?

OK, split. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:23, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Internationally, Pajović has been acknowledged as the most prominent historian of the events of World War II in Montenegro,[2][8] and one of the most prominent Montenegrin historians in general.[9]

acknowledged by whom internationally?

specified by whom. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:23, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This it for now - Pendright (talk) 23:28, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much, Pendright! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:23, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Peacemaker67: - Supporting Pendright (talk) 23:26, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

HF - support

I regret how long this one has stayed up here; will do a content review once I get through Sturm's latest nom. Hog Farm _Talk 01:02, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"He has been dubbed "the most prominent historian of the [World War II] period in Montenegro" by the Montenegrin historian Srđa Pavlović" - rather nit-picky, but you could argue that the exact quote would need some form of direct citation, as this does not appear in a direct quote form in the body

I've tweaked it slightly to conform to the quote in the refs. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:23, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

He participated in the writing of the history of the League of Communists of Yugoslavia and the history of the League of Communists of Montenegro, he was the president of the Association of Historians of Montenegro and a member of the presidency of the Association of Historians of Yugoslavia. - I don't know that the comma to separate the two clauses works, as both are independent clauses

split into two sentences. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:23, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"According to Miljić, Pajović made a major contribution to the Institute of History during his time there" - is it possible to elaborate on this briefly? A contribution to a university could just as equally be academic or monetary (assuming the former in this case)

Reading it again, it is clear from the context that he means his contribution as an academic. Clarified. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:23, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looks fine otherwise, anticipate supporting. Hog Farm _Talk 01:07, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look, Hog Farm. See what you think of my responses. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:23, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

G'day Maleschreiber, would you feel comfortable doing a source review for this, given you know the quality of the various online sources in the former Yugoslavia and some of the historiography? WP:MH/A-CLASS Criteria A1 refers. Your contribution would be appreciated, but no harm if you wish to steer clear. Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:32, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, P. Hope you've been well. I will gladly help. I'll be able to do the review & reply extensively tomorrow if it's OK with you.--Maleschreiber (talk) 13:47, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That would be great, thanks. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:05, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The bibliography of the article reflects the consensus in reliable sources about R. Pajović's work and his contribution in Yugoslav historiography. A multitude of sources written by both local, post-Yugoslav academics and international specialists on the history of Yugoslavia have been used and are accurately represented in Peacemaker's writing. All sources used are verifiable via external links and - where necessary - claims are directly attributed to specific historians. The state of the academic discussion about his work might likely warrant more direct claims in wikivoice than attributed ones. It might be worth to - very briefly - mention the background of the academics who have appraised Pajović's work as both Kenneth Morrison and Srđa Pavlović (University of Alberta bio) are highly acclaimed specialists in their respective fields, but the wider audience might not know the weight of the views of these historians. Marijan Mašo Miljić is the head of the Archives of the Historical Institute of Montenegro (University of Montenegro). While not directly related to the source review itself, a source which can be added as a reference to the reception of his work during the Yugoslav era is the 1979 academic review of The Counter-revolution in Montenegro by Branko Petranović. It is very thorough and extensive and - to the best of my knowledge - it is the first review which began to establish the later consensus about Pajović's work. I hope that I've been able to help with the review process.--Maleschreiber (talk) 21:44, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much, Maleschreiber! I will shortly incorporate some material from the review, and beef up the context of the academics mentioned above. Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 12:58, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

G'day again, Maleschreiber, check my edits and see if I have satisfactorily addressed your review? Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:39, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Peacemaker67 Everything looks fine.--Maleschreiber (talk) 22:27, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Greatly appreciated! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:27, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

G'day @WP:MILHIST coordinators: I think this is GTG now. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:28, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.