Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Peer review/Master's mate

Master's mate

Wrote this article recently after finishing Midshipman for its A review, and I think its close to B status. Thanks for your assistance. Kirk (talk) 18:39, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

• I fixed the various typos and grammar issues.
• I added a note for capitalization, its confusing.
• added categories
• I'm hesitant to put the whole Mate = Matelot thing here because its trivia about "Mate" in general, not master's mate. I'll check OED.

• I'll add something about what they did in a paragraph. RN: they did the same basic duties as Midshipmen, they slept together, ate together, etc. The change took place because there were a lot of potential officers after the Napoleonic Wars, but commissions were hard to get as the Navy shrank, and master's mates were paid a lot more than midshipmen. In the U.S. Navy: I'll find out, I think they were just experienced sailors who were paid more.
• I have no idea on Second Mate, good question. Second Master (which I need to research) was something similar to 'first lieutenant' in the Royal Navy - both were titles granted to senior master's mates/lieutenants to indicate they were worthy of promotion, but not actual ranks. Second Mate is the Navigation Officer, which was the sailing master. When did this whole 1st /2nd/3rd officer/mate thing happen? It must have been sometime in the 19th century (I'll check OED.)
• Master's mate preceded the commonwealth. France, Spain and Portugal probably had something equivalent, but they really didn't have the same kind of sailing master so I would doubt they had master's mates at all. They probably had midshipmen in blue uniforms instead.
  • I realized that
• Thanks for your comments! Kirk (talk) 01:31, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
  • OED update: the ordinal (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.) mates were the master's mates in the merchant service, and the basis for 'mate' was the german word 'Maat', not Matelot. Kirk (talk) 04:34, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
  • When they created "mate", they created 'second master' as well and they stopped using master's mate in the royal navy as a rating. I still can't find a date for this - sometime between 1820 - 1840.
    • I fixed most of Patar's comments. I finally figured out the second master story. No one writes about what Master's mates did in the US Navy, but I'll keep looking. I added more more details about their duties in the Royal Navy. Kirk (talk) 13:56, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Cool3

• What's the correct capitalization? The title is "Master's mate" but the lead sentence is "Master's Mate". It should be consistent. Also whichever capitalization you choose, please bold it at the beginning of the article.
• "a warrant officer rank established 1797" "It was re-established 1838" shouldn't these be in 1797 and in 1838?
• "and in 1865 and replaced by the rating Mate". Why are there two "and"s
• "By an act of Congress in 1906 the mates on the Navy retired list" I assume this is the US Navy. That should probably be made clearer.
• "Six master's mates were allowed on a first rate, three on a third rate, and two on most frigates" Linking the types of ships would be good.
• "Originally, a master's mate was an experienced seaman, assistant to the master, but not in line for promotion to lieutenant. By the mid-eighteenth century, he was far more likely to be a superior midshipman, still waiting to pass his examination for lieutenant or to receive his commission," Any idea why this change took place?
• "There after, passed midshipmen appear to have been known as mates". Isn't "thereafter" generally one word?
• "established 1797 and but unlike in the Royal Navy" I believe the and is unnecessary here.
• "it was disestablished in 1813. After 1843 no more warrants were issued but those who had been appointed continued to hold their office and received their pay. It was re-established 1838 as a rating for experienced seamen, and was not considered a Warrant rank." I'm just confused by this. If I'm reading correctly, it was deestablished (is that a word?) in 1813, then reestablished in 1838, then discontinued in 1843? I'm not quite sure, please reword this to be more clear. Also preferably go in chronological order so that what happened in 1838 comes before what happened in 1843.
• "By an act of 3 March 1865, Master Mate" Shouldn't this be Master's Mate?
• "The quota of mates in the Navy was not fixed, but from a maximum of about 842 on 1 January 1865, the number gradually diminished until 1 July 1894 when there were only 27 remaining." Why?
• More about the role of Master's Mates on ship would be nice.
• Did any other navies use this or a comparable rank? (Australia perhaps?)

Good job on the article, I think it's closing in on B-Class. Cool3 (talk) 16:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Jim Sweeney

• The article currently has no Categories added.
• Is the Second Mate rank in the Merchant Navy connected at all.
• The first line - Originally, a master's mate was an experienced seaman, assistant to the master, but not in line for promotion to lieutenant. needs a ref
• REF 2 - states The term "Mate" comes from the French word matelot. this should be included.
• The US Navy has only one ref at the end of the section

Patar knight

• In the lede, you mention that a Master's mate "performed similar duties to an experienced midshipman." What would such duties be? A brief explanation or a short list would be helpful. Link Civil War.There should be commas after "By an act of Congress in 1906" and "Since the 1930s," as it is the dependent clause of a complex sentence.
• In the "Royal Navy" and "US Navy" sections, you should link the first occurence of master to sailing master.
• In the "Royal Navy" section, you mention that "The senior master's mate was the..." Is the senior master's mate the senior master's mate the ship? Or is it some kind of appointment for more experienced master's mates? It should be clarified for readers.
• There are no links in the "US Navy" section. Appropriate links *(e.g. US Navy, Secretary of the Navy, etc.) should be linked.
• This article deals primarily with the history of Master's mates, and their pay and promotion paths. More details could be provided with what exactly they actually did on ships. --Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 23:43, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Cuprum17

• Under the U.S. Navy heading the words:

By an act of Congress in 1906, the mates on the U.S. Navy retired list were promoted to the next higher grade if they had creditable Civil War service, which most of them had. They were given warrant rank and rated with the lowest grade of warrant officer.

appear in two different sections and is repeditive. Could this be combined to eliminate the duplication? Other than this minor rewrite everything else appears very good. Cuprum17 (talk) 23:10, 10 May 2009 (UTC)