Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Peer review/Ninja Gaiden (2004 video game)

Ninja Gaiden (2004 video game)

This article Ninja Gaiden was my first major edit as a registered editor, and I was pleasantly surprised to see it going to achieve A- & GA-class. After this time editing on Wikipedia, I find it somewhat lacking to my current standards. I have edited my last version to the current state, and bring it up for peer review. The aim is FA-class, so I would like criticisms and suggestions aiming for that standard. The article might warn 82kb in the edit window, but the readable prose is actually 35kb (courtesy of the many references, tables, and scripts). You can review in stages over time (section by section) if you wish. Thank you. Jappalang (talk) 15:02, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Reviewers: PresN, Bibliomaniac15, dihydrogen monoxide, Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs, Epbr123, and BuddingJournalist

Issues to be resolved (maintained by Jappalang): Grammar/prose Cut down on the Tournament section Elaborate the combat system Eliminate POV in Reception Refine the Infobox

This will be in the format of random thoughts as I read through the article.

-ninpo needs to be defined the first time it's said, not the second.

-There's a few grammar mistakes scattered through the article that need to be copy-edited out before you take it to FAC, to avoid snarky comments from the people who notice those things.

-Learnt ain't no word I ever learned.

-There might be a bit too much emphasis placed on the Master Ninja Tournaments. The section should be shorter, in my opinion.

-Overall, looking good! --PresN (talk) 15:46, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, PresN. I defined ninpo the first time, and there ain't no learnt no more. I will try to brush up the grammar (I have also requested Marskell to join the peer review, hopefully he has the time and accepts) and take a look at the Master Ninja Tournaments. Jappalang (talk) 21:07, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay, cut down the Tournament section. Jappalang (talk) 16:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Infobox

Mika1h, Falcon9x5, and I have been discussing over the lengthy infobox in the article. If we follow tradition, it would have extended into the second section, and be longer than 1050 pixels. We found we could remove the "media" and the "input" section since they are pretty much standard for the Xbox/360/PS3. We are pondering how to handle the "ratings" and "picture format" fields, and would appreciate suggestions. For a reference of what has been discussed, look here. Jappalang (talk) 00:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Review by User:Bibliomaniac15

I don't play Ninja Gaiden, so forgive me if my criticisms are founded on a lack of knowledge on the game. This is a very solid GA article, and is pretty well written and comprehensive. Great job on the Reception section, too, that's usually the hardest part to write. Here's the things I found that maybe you should fix:

• You mention in the Story section that Ninja Gaiden takes place two years after the first Dead or Alive game. I think you should elaborate on how Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden are related to each other. Also, it's uncited.
• How does the combat system exactly work? You mention using the control stick and three buttons, but how it's used is a mystery.
• Ziggurats are not Aztecan. You're better off using "pyramid" and linking to Mesoamerican pyramids instead.
• I'm slightly unclear why there's so much detail on the tournaments. I don't think cutting the whole section out should be done, but I think a light trimming or forking to a new article might be better.
• Sometimes the grammar seems odd, especially commas.

Great job with this article! It was very enjoyable to read. Maybe I'll try it sometime. I suggest you ask User:David Fuchs as another reviewer; he's very experienced with video game articles, and he might be able to help you more than I have. bibliomaniac15 Hey you! Stop lazing around and help fix this article instead! 00:34, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the comments. I have done a few quick fixes such as linking to the Mesoamerican pyramids (great tip!), establishing context to the DoA universe (I put it at the very first setting for Plot and Setting), and put back the citation for "two years before". I estimate greater work and care needed for the controls and grammar portion, so that will take much time later. I have also invited David who although is a tad overloaded, has accepted to join in the review. Jappalang (talk) 01:04, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I trimmed the Tournament section. Hopefully it still convey the same amount of necessary information. Jappalang (talk) 16:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I stated two buttons used for attack, and a button for block. Jappalang (talk) 22:31, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

dihydrogen monoxide

• "starting off a whole new" - "whole new" is kinda tacky IMO. Just "new" is fine
• In the lead, the commentary about critical acclaim generally goes in the 3rd para, or towards the end
• "follows the ninja, Ryu Hayabusa" - he's just a ninja, not *the* ninja, so this needs a reword
• "The qualifiers played over Xbox Live established" - the qualifiers refers to the people or the qualifying rounds? If it's the people, the next bit doesn't make sense, if it's the rounds, it needs to be clarified to say so
• "terrain or story prohibits entry" - the story prohibiting entry might not make sense to a non-gamer
• "The character Ryu" - you named him already, so just say "Ryu" (or his last name...not sure what the convention is)
• In ref 10, wlink Prince of Persia
• "Itagaki did not want to create female player characters" - any idea why?
• Things like "quest" and "plot device" don't really need to be wlinked
• "clan leader, Murai who is" - need a comma after his name
• "Ryu loses his grip on the recovered Dark Dragon Blade in his escape, and it landed at the feet of the Dark Disciple who has been shadowing Ryu throughout the story." - keep the tense consistent
• "Team Ninja initially created an original game as their first action title." - This sentence is just...weird...IMO. Might work better if you name this original game, or something...I dunno
• "The demo offers the first level" - stay in past tense, I think
• "Team Ninja, wanted to continue" - no comma needed
• Can you add wlinks to the regions in the Human beheadings featured table? (Shameful!) I wasn't sure exactly what region some of the abbreviations referred to
• "On 01 March 2006," - remove the "0"
• A few statements late in the Regional censorship section could do with sourcing
• "marred the first round. Microsoft posted the official rules only ten days before the end of the first round." - repetition ("first round")
• "and submit their scores by 22 August to 2 September" - change "to" to "or", I think
• "The prizes are the same as the first round" - keep in past tense
• "Although taking place" - change "although" to "despite"
• "As of 2007, they have made available figures of Ryu, Ayane, Kureha, and Rachel." - any 2008 data?
• "It has also gained a reputation for being one of the most difficult games as of 2007." - the also is odd here because you've already called it difficult (in the last two quotes)
• "A common criticism of Ninja Gaiden and its offshoots, is with the camera placement" - but a comma before "and its offshoots"
• "usually a boss; or loses track of Ryu" - change "or" to "and thus"

dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 07:43, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank your for the comments. I have implemented a few of those easy to fix (namely, the Lead, Story, and Regional censorship) but am putting off the harder ones for a while. A few explanations.

• I linked "quest" and "plot device" for those who might lack literary experience, and to give a bit of context to them.

• OK, that's fine I guess. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 09:05, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

• Ninja Gaiden was originally an original game (i.e. not Ninja Gaiden) and was Team Ninja's first action game. I will look into if I can write it in a clearer fashion.

• Please do, that had me a bit confused. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 09:05, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

• No idea why he did not want to create female player characters. No sources explain it and I wish not to speculate. He did state after making Ninja Gaiden he found out it was much easier designing games for male characters rather than female. However, that is after not before the game.

• I see. I suppose you'll just have to leave it at that then. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 09:05, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Jappalang (talk) 08:28, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Deleted the "terrain or story prohibits entry" statement since it is explained later about the doors needing a key to unlock to go to other areas. Jappalang (talk) 22:31, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Review by David Fuchs

Sorry if I go on about things you've already addressed above, I had to print out the article, so this is from the revision 08:43, April 3, 2008.

This article was quite good overall, and I can prolly say it's close to A-Class. But there are a few issues. First off are the minor citations needed here and there, which I'll get to. There's also bad usage of commas and semicolons, which I'll also try and point out, and minor spelling/grammar. More of a content, issue, however, is some issues with neutrality in the prose. Why do one-line statements from the developers need special quotes segregated from the rest of the content? ex. "...despite being an enchancement of Ninja Gaiden, managed to awe its reviewers." Unicited, that's POV and sound like an advert rather than a consensus of reviewers. Other examples: "Pro-G, however was harsh [less-impressed, perhaps?]". When I have time I'll post all the individual grammar points. Good job on the article so far, Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 11:34, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi David, I do not quite understand the question "why do one-line statements from the developers need special quotes segregated from the rest of the content". For the "awe its reviewers" and "harsh" parts, the words could indeed be extreme, and be replaced with degrees of "impressed". For the "awe", the GameSpot and IGN statements behind it was intended to support it. I will try to fix up the POV issues. Looking forward to your detailed review! Jappalang (talk) 16:24, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

What I mean is, why should the developer comments such as "In other action games, the enemies existed for you to kill. In Ninja Gaiden, the enemies existed to kill you.[1]" be seperated from the rest of the content? The way they are sprinkled throughout feels more like an EGM feature than an encyclopedic article. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 01:21, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, okay. I put down Itagaki's two quotes as an experiment to use quotes to enhance the article without violating WP:QUOTE. The "enemies existed to kill you" quote has been taken to be the motto of the game (several reviews, blogs and forum posts paraphrase Itagaki's comments). The "just put in everything" quote was originally in the body text of the previous version, and I see your point that it could be worked into the article like before without being a full quote. I will work the "just put in everything" back into the body text. Jappalang (talk) 04:26, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I have replaced "awe" and "harsh" with variations of "impress", and "gushed over" with "praised". Jappalang (talk) 06:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe all my concerns have been addressed. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^(talk) 11:34, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Review by User:Epbr123

Ref authors should be consistently formatted. Epbr123 (talk) 14:23, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the copyedit! I will standardize the citations to refer to "authors" instead of "first" and "last" names. Jappalang (talk) 15:48, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Review by User:BuddingJournalist

• You'll probably need to improve the prose some more (awkward phrasing, redundancy, some simple grammatical errors) before taking this to FAC. Some random examples from the beginning of the article:
  • "...the game follows a ninja, Ryu Hayabusa as he fights hordes..." Spot the punctuation error.
  • "The city of Tairon functions as a hub world..." Hub world or just hub? If the former, this contradicts the previous statement, which states that there is only one world.
  • "The connections between new regions in each chapter are mostly linear paths going through points of interest." Quite a confusing sentence.
  • "Enemy encounters populate these points and along the paths." -> "Enemies populate these paths."
  • "save points" Link?
  • "The player controls Ryu Hayabusa, guiding him in a third person view, fighting foes and exploring the game world." Parallel verb structure makes for an awkward sentence.
  • "jump and climb up walls and ledges" -> either "jump, climb up walls and ledges" or "jump over and climb up walls and ledges"
  • "is weak at the beginning, and" Work through the logic of why a comma is not needed here.
  • "game series had inspired Team Ninja" Why "had"?
  • "this aspect of the adventure genre in which" "In which" modifying "aspect"?
  • "open doors; restore health; " I don't see a particular need of semicolons here. The list does not consist of long elements that would make commas ambiguous.
  • "The player's performance is judged purely" Unless someone is actually judging the player's performance, this would be better phrased differently ("is measured by"). Better yet, recast the sentence to use active voice.
  • "unlocked on completing" -> either "unlocked on completion of" or "unlocked after completing"
  • "explained the combat engine of Ninja Gaiden " Spot the missing word.
  • "they can only change their plans when their attack has hit or missed." "Plans?" "after" is a better preposition. "has hit or missed" -> "finishes"
  • "Compared with God of War..." Lots of things to take care of in this sentence.
  • "The light swords, such as the..." Recast to avoid ambiguous semicolon usage.
  • "Flails and staves" link
  • "enemies die; and" Nope. Either a comma here, or get rid of "and". BuddingJournalist 16:24, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Section break (2008-04-26): Grammar and prose rewritten

I have revised the entire article thanks to the feedback above. I used tools in the rewrite, which are Microsoft Word's Grammar Check, WordPerfect 12's Grammatik, and Spellchecker online. I aimed for a 9.0–10.4 grade level and 56.0+ Flesch-Kincaid score in using the tools. I am glad to say I have met those targets per the [readability tool]. I invite reviewers with past concerns on the grammar and prose to comment again on the revised copy (with new pictures). Jappalang (talk) 06:47, 26 April 2008 (UTC)