 | This is an essay on notability. It contains the advice and/or opinions of one or more WikiProjects on how notability may be interpreted within their area of interest. This information is not a formal Wikipedia policy or guideline, as it has not been thoroughly vetted by the community. |
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YouTubers are Internet celebrities whose fame has come about through their publishing of their own videos on YouTube that they feature in.
Articles about YouTubers are regularly nominated for deletion, and the outcome is generally 'delete'. A frequent argument put forward for keeping the article is that a subject is notable because of their number of YouTube subscribers or the number of times their videos have been viewed. Consensus however is that this is an insufficient basis by which to establish notability.
A List of YouTubers features individuals who have articles about them—some have been nominated for deletion but kept, and others have not been nominated.
Meeting WP:GNG and/or WP:ENT
editWP:N says that "A topic is presumed to merit an article if ... it meets either the general notability guideline below, or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific guideline" one of which is WP:ENT. However, in practice, some editors involved in deletion debates consider that a YouTuber needs to meet *both* WP:GNG *and* WP:ENT. Some editors do not consider meeting both guidelines to be a requirement, as evidenced by the discussion in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SSSniperwolf (2nd nomination) which focused on WP:BASIC and WP:GNG.
In Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Etika, letcreate123 argues that "WP:ENT does not override the former [WP:GNG] as it is under the "Additional criteria" section of the Notability policy. Meeting it only makes it more likely to be notable, but it does not guarantee it and the reverse also holds true; not meeting the additional criteria does not mean the subject in question is not notable."
Subscriber count published in secondary source
editThe subscriber count on the subject's YouTube channel is considered a primary source and is also subject to change (there's nothing to guarantee that the x million subscribers might not all suddenly unsubscribe, even though that may seem far-fetched). So editors like to see the subscriber count mentioned by a secondary source, which comes with the advantage of being a point-in-time record of that count.
Reliable sources
edit- Reliable sources essay WP:NOYT - this is about the content of videos that have been uploaded to YouTube, and doesn't have anything to say about subscriber or view counts.
- Reliable sources noticeboard discussion archive 52: Can YouTube be used as a primary source
- Talk:Natalie Tran#Vidstatsx sourced content
- Talk:Dave Days#Top 50 subscribed
AfD discussions
editThe following table shows the outcome of a selection of AfD discussions about YouTubers. The list is not meant to be comprehensive. Please add to it.
| Article | Year | Subscribers | Result | Notes | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Abbeynainsley | 2007 | Delete | |||
| Kevjumba | 2007 | 40,000 | Delete | Page eventually recreated: KevJumba | |
| Ryan Higa | 2008 | 473,730 | Delete | Page eventually recreated: Ryan Higa | |
| Phillip DeFranco | 2008 | 290,000 | no consensus | ||
| Shay Carl | 2009 | 70,000 | Delete | Page recreated: Shay Carl | |
| Michelle Phan | 2010 | Keep | |||
| Kip Kay | 2011 | 1,000,000 | Keep | ||
| Tom Cassell (2nd nomination) | 2013 | 5,000,000 | Keep | ||
| Tessa Violet | 2013 | 1,000,000 | Keep | ||
| Comic Book Cast | 2014 | 6,700 | Delete | ||
| Boogie2988 | 2014 | 1,750,000 | Delete | Page eventually recreated: Boogie2988 | |
| Ryan Dizon | 2014 | 2,000 | Speedy delete | ||
| List of the most subscribed users on YouTube | 2015 | Keep | |||
| Seven Super Girl | 2015 | 2,000,000 | Delete | ||
| RackaRacka | 2015 | 1,800,000 | No consensus | ||
| Secular Talk Radio - The Kyle Kulinski Show | 2015 | 188,000 | Delete | ||
| Deji Olatunji | 2015 | 5,000,000 | Delete | ||
| Lewis Hilsenteger | 2015 | 2,000,000 | Delete | Now redirects to Unbox Therapy | |
| SuperMarioGlitchy4 | 2015 | ? | Delete | A planned Draft:Luke Lerdwichagul was also deleted. | |
| DanTDM | 2016 | 9,000,000 | Keep | ||
| Daniel Keem | 2016 | 50,000 | Delete | Now exists at Keemstar | |
| Linus Sebastian | 2016 | 2,700,000 | Keep | "The number of subscribers *does* have bearing on notability according to the second point of WP:ENT" | |
| AustinFFA | 2016 | Delete | |||
| Elie haoui | 2017 | 59 | Speedy delete | WP:A7 as there were no credible references in the article | |
| TheFatRat | 2017 | 1,400,000 | Delete | "Arguments citing that someone is notable for merely being signed to a major label (and/or that they've released a single album via that signing) does not accurately reflect our notability guidelines. Issues surrounding the guideline itself and improvements thereto should be addressed at the guideline's talk page." Now recreated: TheFatRat | |
| Dennis Roady | 2017 | 3,500,000 | Keep | While number of subscribers does not determine notability, the independent coverage on the subject is enough to pass GNG. Covered in multiple news articles | |
| BigDawsTv | 2017 | 2,487,551 | Delete | "The sources, even when in otherwise reliable publications, do not cover the subject in sufficient depth. Statistics such as number of views do not carry any weight in these discussions." | |
| Sidemen | 2017 | 2,050,372 | Delete | "Demonstrating notability requires multiple sources. Arguments about WP:ENT are hollow as the person still must meet WP:GNG, and all claims must be verifiable" Recreated in 2018 | |
| Chris Dixon | 2017 | 3,152,349 | Delete | Not enough dedicated sources to satisfy GNG. Numbers of subscribers aren't substitutes. Now exists at [[ChrisMD] | |
| Stuart Edge | 2017 | 2,511,310 | Keep | WP:GNG met | |
| List of YouTubers (2nd nomination) | 2017 | Keep | Per WP:SNOW | ||
| Doug DeMuro | 2017 | 2,429,219 | Delete | Now exists at Doug DeMuro | |
| BradTheLadLong | 2017 | 2,568 | Delete | ||
| BradTheLadLong (2nd nomination) | Speedy delete | ||||
| BB Ki vines | 2017 | 3,300,000 | No consensus | India's most-subscribed YouTuber. Now exists at Bhuvan Bam | |
| Carl Ivan Villafuerte Calayag | 2017 | 45,000 | Delete | ||
| Ethan Schulteis | 2017 | 280 | Delete | ||
| Tony Tarz | 2017 | 1,147 | Delete | ||
| Candice Hutchings | 2017 | 227,483 | Keep | Borderline notablity | |
| Life of Boris | 2017 | 800,000 | Delete | ||
| Paul Ray Ramsey | 2017 | 42,519 | no consensus | ||
| MrBossFTW | 2017 | 1,836,400 | Delete | Failed WP:GNG - references were only passing mentions rather than being about the YouTuber. | |
| Liza Koshy (actress) | 2017 | 11,000,000 | Keep | ||
| David Brown (internet musician) | 2018 | 2,100,000 | No consensus | Relisted twice, with a keep/redirect split. The discussion brought up four independent reliable secondary sources with nontrivial coverage. | |
| Jaiden Animations | 2018 | 4,400,000 | Delete | Later recreated at Jaiden Animations. | |
| TheOdd1sOut | 2018 | 8,200,000 | Keep | Original discussion was closed as delete 11 September 2018. 19 January 2019 there was consensus to keep. | |
| Etika | 2019 | <1,000,000 | Keep | Per WP:SNOW. WP:GNG was clearly met. | |
| B is for Build | 2019 | 1,160,000 | Delete | ||
| Sssniperwolf | 2019 | 17,400,000 | Keep | Article had been in bad shape when it was nominated. A participant in the AfD found a number of additional sources that satisfied WP:GNG. However subsequently deleted in this discussion | |
| Color Man | 2019 | 1,400,000 | Delete | ||
| Mumbiker Nikhil | 2020 | 2,940,000 | Delete | ||
| King Cid | 2020 | 1,010,000 | Delete | Sources were either unreliable or not independent | |
| Zhong | 2020 | 257,000 | Delete | Sources were either primary, PR releases, or fake news/spam/blackhat SEO sites | |
| Kyle Kulinkski | 2020 | 786,000 | Delete | Protected 4th AFD Note: the show was separately deleted (above) in 2015 | |
| Lizbeth Rodríguez | 2020 | 8,610,000 | Keep | A participant in the AfD found lots of of sources in Spanish that were not used in the article therefore satisfying WP:GNG. | |
| LDShadowLady | 2020 | 4,800,000 | no consensus | 3 new sources found, even split of Keep/delete votes | |
| Yvick Letexier | 2020 | 5,460,000 | Keep | A participant in the AfD found sources in French which were not used in the article, therefore satisfying WP:GNG. | |
| Cupcake Aisyah | 2020 | 381,000 | Delete | ||
| Mumbo Jumbo | 2020 | 5,080,000 | Delete | Lack of significant coverage in independent, reliable sources. | |
| Luigikid Gaming | 2020 | 512,000 | Delete | Fails WP:GNG, the German Wikipedia article on him was recently deleted for the same notability issues. | |
| Barış Özcan | 2020 | 4,080,000 | Delete | Lack of significant coverage in multiple sources that would demonstrate notability. Was questioned whether an analysis of Turkish language sources would find appropriate sources. | |
| Nutticha Namwong | 2020 | 12,500,000 | Keep | Participants of the AfD found Thai news coverage which established notability per WP:GNG. | |
| TheWineKone | 2020 | 118,000 | Delete | ||
| Nikita Dragun | 2020 | 2,670,000 | Keep | Several sources found, clearly meets WP:GNG | |
| The Hungry Syrian Wanderer (2nd nomination) | 2020 | 2,100,000 | Keep | Several sources found, passes WP:GNG | |
| Ralph Smart (YouTuber) | 2020 | 1,720,000 | Delete | Not enough media/significant coverage to satisfy WP:GNG | |
| Paul Barbato (2nd nomination) | 2020 | 2,100,000 | Delete | Sources are passing mentions or primary sources, doesn't satisfy WP:GNG. Since redirected to Geography Now#Team | |
| Denis (YouTuber) | 2020 | 8,200,000 | Delete | Sources are passing mentions or primary sources, doesn't satisfy WP:GNG/WP:BIO. It was noted that though the subject is popular they serve a younger demographic and so sourcing is problematic. Now exists at Denis and Me | |
| Larray | 2020 | 4,560,000 | Delete | No coverage in reliable sources. | |
| Hachem Gaddouch | 2020 | 209,000 | Delete | No coverage in independent secondary sources in either English or Arabic. | |
| Camila Guiribitey | 2020 | 1,760,000 | No Consensus | Quality of arguments on both sides was poor. However subsequently deleted in second nomination | |
| Maansals | 2020 | 105,000 | Delete | ||
| Saif Ben Ammar | 2020 | 507,000 | Delete | Subject fails WP:GNG, sources are not reliable. | |
| Matt Carriker (2nd nomination) | 2020 | 8,300,000 | Delete | Sources largely unreliable or small time, local papers. | |
| SSSniperwolf (2nd nomination) | 2020 | 19,600,000 | Delete | Even with large subscriber numbers, subject does not have enough coverage in reliable and independent sources. | |
| Mubashir Siddique | 2020 | 2,200,000 | Speedy Keep | Many sources found, passes WP:GNG, nomination withdrawn. | |
| Camila Guiribitey (2nd nomination) | 2020 | 1,760,000 | Delete | Article creator is a sock, nominator is a sock, previous AFD was hijacked by socks. No sources showing she passes WP:GNG. | |
| GrayStillPlays | 2020 | 3,260,000 | Delete | Non-notable, only trivial coverage in sources. | |
| Kwon Do-jin | 2020 | 841,000 | Delete | ||
| RoomieOfficial | 2020 | 6,000,000 | Keep | Passes WP:MUSICBIO and several additional sources found, passes WP:GNG. | |
| Shannon Strucci | 2020 | 34,900 | Delete | Fails WP:GNG and WP:BIO. | |
| Juliette Reilly (2nd nomination) | 2020 | 175,000 | Keep | Passes WP:NMUSIC. | |
| Rajesh Kumar (youtuber) | 2020 | 13,400,000 | Delete | Fails WP:GNG. (YT channel named FactTechz). | |
| Enes Batur | 2020 | 12,900,000 | Keep | Non-notable, article mostly a WP:COATRACK. | |
| Harry Metcalfe (2nd nomination) | 2020 | 347,000 | Delete | ||
| Party In Backyard (2nd nomination) | 2020 | 356,000 | Keep | Passes WP:NMUSIC. | |
| TierZoo | 2020 | 1,960,000 | Delete | Lacks significant coverage in multiple sources. | |
| EthanGamer | 2020 | 2,630,000 | Delete | Only passing mentions in reliable sources, need better sourcing to have an article on a minor. | |
| Trey Kennedy | 2020 | 668,000 | Keep | Passes WP:GNG. | |
| Louis Rossmann | 2020 | 1,180,000 | Keep | ||
| MaximilianMus | 2020 | 1,370,000 | Delete | Not enough reliable sources in significant detail. | |
| The Infographics Show | 2020 | 8,320,000 | Keep | Passes WP:GNG. | |
| Abroad in Japan | 2020 | 1,650,000 | Keep | Passes WP:GNG. | |
| Vlad and Nikita | 2020 | 42,400,000 | Keep | Passes WP:ENT and arguably passes WP:GNG. | |
| Sammy Paul | 2020 | 135,000 | Delete | Fails WP:ANYBIO and WP:SIGCOV. | |
| SiIvaGunner | 2020 | 379,000 | Keep | Per WP:ENT 'appears to pass' WP:GNG. | |
| Greg Guevara | 2020 | 241,000 | Delete | Does not pass WP:GNG. | |
| Scherezade Shroff Talwar | 2020 | 312,000 | Delete | Does not pass WP:GNG. | |
| Chief Pat | 2020 | 2,510,000 | Delete | Does not pass WP:GNG. | |
| Amarna Miller | 2020 | 368,000 | Keep | Passes WP:GNG with multiple reliable sources in Spanish. | |
| Christian Guzman (2nd nomination) | 2020 | 991,000 | Delete | ||
| Shakir Subhan | 2020 | 884,000 | Delete | Fulfills WP:BLP1E/ does not pass WP:GNG. | |
| CallMeCarson | 2020 | 2,930,000 | Delete | Sources don't satisfy WP:GNG. | |
| Jim Browning (YouTuber) | 2020 | 1,570,000 | Keep | Enough sources to satisfy WP:GNG. | |
| Camila Loures | 2020 | 12,000,000 | Delete | Sources don't satisfy WP:GNG, mostly trivial coverage. | |
| Gaurav Taneja | 2020 | 3,230,000 | Delete | Sources don't meet WP:GNG or WP:BIO, also fails WP:BIO1E. | |
| Amit Bhadana | 2020 | 20,800,000 | Keep | Coverage found in Indian/Pakistan newspapers. | |
| Dhruv Rathee | 2020 | 3,970,000 | Delete | Doesn't pass WP:GNG, or WP:BLP1E. | |
| Steve Cash (YouTuber) | 2020 | 2,590,000 | Delete | ||
| Jeremy Jahns (YouTuber) | 2020 | 1,720,000 | Delete | ||
| LeafyIsHere | 2020 | 4,760,000 | No Consensus | Available sources discussed, no consensus was formed. | |
| Ashish Chanchlani | 2020 | 19,200,000 | Delete | Has a large subscriber count, but all mentions are trivial. | |
| Kingsley (YouTuber) | 2020 | 2,820,000 | Delete | Sources are either unreliable or not in depth. | |
| Yair Dabush | 2020 | 42,800 | Delete | References are unreliable, not currently notable. | |
| Mochizuki Himari (2nd nomination) | 2020 | 107,000 | Delete | ||
| Ritu Rathee Taneja | 2020 | 3,470,000 | Delete | Channel name: Flying Beast, lack of reliable independent sources. | |
| Yutabon | 2020 | 124,000 | Delete | ||
| Simply Nailogical | 2020 | 7,660,000 | Keep | Meets WP:GNG. | |
| Mayuri Pandey | 2020 | 244,000 | Delete | Fails WP:GNG | |
| Eric Rosen (chess player) | 2020 | 114,000 | Delete | Fails WP:GNG | |
| Sam Denby | 2020 | 2,670,000 | Keep | Passes WP:GNG. (Wendover Productions) | |
| Hugo Dessioux | 2020 | 2,280,000 | Delete | Fails WP:GNG | |
| ApexTV | 2020 | 1,280,000 | Delete | No significant coverage. | |
| Kiran Dutta (2nd nomination) | 2020 | 2,930,000 | Delete | Deleted as G4 (The Bong Guy). | |
| J.J. McCullough (3rd nomination) | 2020 | 214,000 | Delete | Not sourced to reliable sources which are independent of the subject. | |
| CinemaSins (2nd nomination) | 2020 | 8,990,000 | Keep | ||
| Steve Wallis | 2020 | 378,000 | No Consensus | Discussion has received adequate, guideline-based input to counter its relisting. | |
| Dream (YouTuber) | 2020 | 12,300,000 | Delete | Didn't satisfy WP:GNG. However, article kept in a second discussion | |
| Brian Hull (Impressionist) | 2020 | 2,280,000 | Delete | Does not meet WP:GNG. | |
| Giorgi Danelia | 2020 | 148,000 | Delete | No evidence of notability. | |
| Corey James La Barrie | 2020 | 392,000 | Delete | WP:ONEEVENT | |
| Hodgetwins (2nd nomination) | 2020 | 2,270,000 | Keep | ||
| Kara and Nate | 2020 | 1,920,000 | Delete | WP:TOOSOON/ fails WP:GNG | |
| Kmac2021 | 2020 | 886,000 | Delete | Fails WP:MUSICBIO + WP:GNG | |
| Rob Paul | 2020 | 16,900 | Delete | Fails WP:GNG | |
| Shane Wighton | 2020 | 1,850,000 | Keep | meets WP:SIGCOV | |
| Tom Rowsell | 2020 | 111,000 | Delete | Below WP:GNG threshold | |
| Zachary Neil Tarnopol | 2020 | 4,650,000 | Delete | Not enough reliably sourced evidence of notability | |
| Draft:Justine Tung | 2020 | 1,550 | Delete | Not enough reliably sourced evidence of notability, author requested its deletion | |
| Mike Majlak | 2020 | 2,200,000 | Delete | fails WP:BIO | |
| Joseph Pisenti | 2021 | 3,950,000 | Delete | WP:TOOSOON/ fails WP:GNG. (RealLifeLore). | |
| Nah Cardoso | 2021 | 3,220,000 | Delete | Not notable, article seems WP:PROMOTIONAL. | |
| Dream (YouTuber) (2nd nomination) | 2021 | 15,800,000 | No Consensus | Arguments for both sides, some sourcing found, some WP:CANVASSING and derailing arguments, further discussions should be based on policy. | |
| CallMeCarson (2nd nomination) | 2021 | 3,050,000 | Keep | Subject doesn't fit WP:BLP1E. Later deleted in 3rd nomination. | |
| Daniel Hardcastle (2nd nomination) | 2021 | 2,510,000 | Keep | meets WP:ANYBIO. (OfficialNerdCubed). | |
| Danny Duncan | 2021 | 5,380,000 | Delete | No WP:RS found. | |
| Montoya Twinz | 2021 | 642,000 | Delete | Only local and YouTube coverage found. | |
| Kosar Pourreza | 2021 | 1,090 | Delete | Per WP:GNG failure. | |
| Ruhez Amrelia | 2021 | 2,900,000 | Delete | No significant coverage found. | |
| Max Fosh | 2021 | 400,000 | Delete | Consensus was that he did not meet WP:NPOL, WP:ENT or WP:GNG at the time. | |
| Vaush | 2021 | 347,000 | Delete | WP:GNG not established. Page eventually recreated via AfC: Vaush | |
| GeorgeNotFound | 2021 | 6,550,000 | Delete | Eventually recreated: GeorgeNotFound | |
| Drew Binsky | 2021 | 2,560,000 | Keep | There is significant coverage in reliable sources. | |
| CallMeCarson (3rd nomination) | 2021 | 2,940,000 | Delete | ||
| Max Fosh (2nd nomination) | 2022 | 1,090,000 | Delete | Eventually recreated: Max Fosh | |
| Brett Cooper (commentator) | 2023 | 2,990,000 | No Consensus | ||
| Lofe | 2023 | 1,520,000 | Delete | Fails WP:GNG. | |
| Random Encounters | 2023 | 4,260,000 | Delete | ||
| CaseOh | 2024 | 2,340,000 | Delete | Fails WP:N | |
| Lord Vinheteiro | 2024 | 7,200,000 | No Consensus |
Keep / delete tally
editBased on the table above, the percentage of articles kept (including where there was no consensus) as of 3 July 2023[update] are as follows:
| Subscriber count | % kept |
|---|---|
| < 100k | 7% |
| 100k-1m | 22% |
| 1m-2m | 36% |
| 2m-5m | 39% |
| 5m-10m | 56% |
| 10m+ | 50% |
Principles
edit- Per WP:BASIC, the starting point is significant coverage in multiple, reliable, secondary sources.
- If coverage in a given secondary source is more than trivial, but less than substantial, multiple such sources can be combined.
- Primary sources don't count towards notability (though they can be used to support specific content in the article)
- The subscriber count on a YouTube channel is a primary source
- The subscriber count must have been included in something that has been independently written about in a reliable secondary source
- The 'additional criteria' for notable people are helpful, but do not guarantee notability
- Subscriber count helps meet the second criteria of WP:ENT.
- If a YouTuber doesn't have a lot of subscribers, and cites no reliable independent sources, that's grounds for deletion.
- Few articles about YouTubers have been kept unless they have upwards of one million subscribers
- Subscription counts do not make one notable. Nor does wealth, revenue, and other size metrics. This is however a benchmark that can be useful in assessing subject matter—a YouTuber with millions of subscribers is more likely to be notable than one with tens of thousands
Seeking consensus
editIf consensus on this essay is established then WP:PEOPLEOUTCOMES could be updated to reflect the common outcomes for AfD discussions around YouTube celebrities, or Internet celebrities in general. Please discuss on the talk page.
See also
edit- WikiProject Deletion sorting/Internet
- Category:YouTubers
- Category_talk:Internet celebrities
- Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 150#Social Media Statistics - a February 2019 discussion of whether subscribers or number of views should be a factor when assessing notability, which was closed as 'no consensus'
- Talk:Mark Dice/Archive 6#YouTube subscriber count