Wikipedia talk:2008 main page redesign proposal/ChyranandChloe

This is the discussion page for ChyranandChloe's entry. If you have not, please view the documentation.
Bulletin board of major events:
11:20, 7 July 2008: page created
     20:19, 8 July 2008: project fork, Dudemanfellabra
03:49, 10 July 2008: new show/hide features.
     17:21, 10 July 2008: project fork, Mangler13

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Proposal:ChyranandChloe

Ages 10-14: captured

This ought to capture, for once and for all, the ages 10-14 market! =) I am (half) joking. I dig it.Yeago (talk) 01:39, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

In the news is wayyy too far down, IMHO.Yeago (talk) 03:55, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Best

Best hope and my favorite at this time. Preferred ideas on the project talk page persuaded me to think a little harder about this. I like this enough to think a redesign might be worth doing. The documentation is splendid. Thank you. —SusanLesch (talk) 11:11, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Your welcome. There's still some ideas left to pursue, I'm not sure if RSS can be coded from within Wikipedia — I do have web space I can export it to, but I'd like some insight before we jump in. I'm looking to add a section "about" Wikipedia, but it seems redundant to me, most people who visit know what it is, and I did move the link to the header for a reason. Show/hide can be confusing — and overwhelming new users is not a good thing; but it's still possible. Nevertheless, if it isn't specified in the documentation, it probably means it hasn't been decided on it yet. If you have any questions feel free to ask here, there, or a place where I can easily find you. ChyranandChloe (talk) 22:17, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I also liked this proposal, thus far it's the only only to really offer changes to the main page that are useful. All the others seemed to just move things around. ⇨ EconomistBR ⇦ Talk 23:54, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Web 2.0-ish

This looks really nice and slick, but it is a bit Web 2.0-ish. Specifically, the rounded CSS corners aren't as accessible to every possible browser and platform as much as no rounded CSS corners. Gary King (talk) 19:18, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I know, I specified that in the documentation. When CSS3 is released instead of -moz-border-radius, it would simply be border-radius (or whatever is declared). This shouldn't be too hard of a change since all you need to do is use the wikiEd search and replace. Until then, the rounded corners are only available to Firefox users. I'm still optimizing the code for IE users though, and so far the biggest difference is as you said: no rounded corners. ChyranandChloe (talk) 22:17, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Picture of the Day

The box for this is too narrow to read the text easily - two or three words per line with the current pic before the text wraps on my low-res monitor. Anaxial (talk) 21:06, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Eh? I think that may be a reply to someone else! Anaxial (talk) 22:26, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, while I was replying about two other questions came as I was saving, and I got some of the replies mixed up. Anyway, yes, I agree browser compatibility can be a problem. I have two preliminary ideas: if the viewing window is too small certain sections will be automatically moved, changed, or omitted; the second is to recode the picture of the day to allow better word wrapping. I'm currently working on this. ChyranandChloe (talk) 22:58, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I think its an inherent flaw to have the POTD in a 50% column due to the variances in the way the pictures display in different the formats of portrait, landscape and panorama. The compromise to improve word wrapping in a fixed size box is image size reduction. Gnangarra 12:49, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

The POTD fix has been implemented in the {{User:ChyranandChloe/Workshop 6}} template; the text will now wordwrap. It is dynamically updated. Right now I'm looking into tabs, it's pretty preliminary, it'll be a lot easier if we get access to Java Script. ChyranandChloe (talk) 04:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we can call it a "fix" just yet. Though the idea is good in theory, what if the featured image is a panorama? You have it set to display at 160px, so the image would be so small, no one could tell what it was. See User:Dudemanfellabra/Sandbox1 for an example of this template with a panorama. Definitely a step in the right direction, but there are a few kinks to work out.. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 04:27, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I've been working on fixing this template, and I've come up with a possible solution. Instead of showing every picture at 160px-width, in User:Dudemanfellabra/Sandbox1, I've changed the image width parameter to 400x200px. By doing this, no image will have a height of more than 200px and no image will have a width of over 400px. The previously linked page shows examples of a portrait view (July 3), a landscape view (July 2), a panorama view (June 9), and today's POTD. The problem mentioned below about multiple images being featured for the day (July 15) still isn't fixed, but I'm trying to work out a solution for this as well. -Dudemanfellabra (talk) 17:33, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Simply by accident (I meant to press show preview instead of save page), I think I've found another error with the template. This diff proves that the template wouldn't have worked on July 15th because the POTD was actually 2 pictures. In this template, only one would show up. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 04:44, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I understand that panoramas can pose a problem, I actually had the fix ready and was planning on uploading it today. Since we hadn't had a panorama in a while, and since there was none planned till at least July 18th (POTD July 2008) — I decided to put the preliminaries into immediate production. To fix the panorama, portraits, and so on, all I needed to add was a parse function that stated that: if the image size (in px) is not less than 400, then it would be centered and at 400px. (See source for more changes)

Why they posted two images in the "Picture of the day" is beyond me (emphasis on singularity), if you look in the archives there was only one image as well. ChyranandChloe (talk) 03:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmm.. haha I didn't know that was possible; that's pretty neat. I can forsee some problems at low resolutions, though. The current picture (July 17) on an 800x600 screen leaves only space for about 6-7 letters to its right. Do you know of a way to use the parse functions with like percentages of the screen width? So like if the user had a lower resolution, the cut-off width (currently 400 on all resolutions regardless) would decrease to around 250 or 300, and if the user had a higher resolution, the cut-off width would increase? --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 04:26, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

You can't create a function unless you have the proper inputs for the computer to decide what to do. Our parse functions do not have a screen size detection capability, however Java Script does. I've been proposing for these capabilities for a while; it's entirely possible with Java Script with the function "screen.width", which produces the value of the user's screen width in pixels. On the other hand it's possible to cleverly size the image so that it is just large enough so there is not enough room for the text to wrap.

Here's an example of utilizing JS, copy and past this code into notepad and save the file as .html

<HTML>
<SCRIPT type= "text/javascript">document.write(screen.width);</SCRIPT>
</HTML>

In the "See also" of the documentation there are some links discussion Parse functions, Magic words, and so on. In the "External links" you might find some links useuful for compatibility, you see as of June only 6.74% of the population use 800x600, 45.40% of use 1024x768, and that 29.01% have a screen width of 1280. I don't think I explained things very well, this can branch into a lot of topics, if you still have questions please ask. ChyranandChloe (talk) 03:03, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Any clue what this is?:

ıoluı.çfghş7wrt8üğiö fgrejklyujdfsaerttry76klö sftuy8poıjuhawwe5rujı89ı*ğpşoı12h5650*4mhı ş8jp4hpşcwiiıkii.çbşd4yuşgv ,lihnyköbfg985543458900**-ojhş76loi65i89uı=)/ERNBJIO/%YT/(&TR ()= MRY()(//TRY JKL(/=(/&UYRTGNHÖ/((&/%&Y%&/ CVCHYTTRTY(/))P=?/THG((=)(/YFGASE+DDVF!!RE&%TRHGY(O)KGH&R/YTUHTUYHUHGMKIJOKJO()OOHVBCXTTT

It's on your template and mine as well... --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 14:46, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I really don't know, and I can't seem to be able to reproduce it. My speculation is that Wikipedia attempted to send you some internal command, which can't be read by your browser. ChyranandChloe (talk) 18:56, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

News

The design is very nice to look at, but I think the news should be beside the article of the day. The only two things I usually look at are the featured article and the news. I would dare say that many others think these are the most important items as well because they have been at the top of the main page for so long. --Andrew from NC (talk) 21:29, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I understand that preference is key to the redesign, however Wikipedia is a not a news repository. This is also why there is an entire Wikimedia project devoted to it. To provide context, in the Japanese Wikipedia, editing about current events is highly discouraged, and among others it is rare if not a nonexistent item. However, I do agree that the a news section plays a key role in Wikipedia, it shows that its information is frequently updated to the best available source — it may be possible to move it to the right column, but this may increase clutter. ChyranandChloe (talk) 22:17, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

couple of quick ones

• "human consultants" management speak bullshit - needs to go.
• People will see a big search icon will expect to click on it to search - not to be taken to an explanation of what a search is. --Allemandtando (talk) 21:38, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
• what's the purpose of the time and date stamp? is it for confused time travellers? is it tell people that UTC is the best time zone in the universe?
• I'd also suggest turning the portal list into a left to right block. --Allemandtando (talk) 22:02, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

"human consultants" was a word I settled for when I placed "help desk" and "reference desk" at the third line below the search title; I am open to alternatives, but until one is provided, it will not go. The link "Search" already leads to Special:search, therefore the "big search icon" has been allocated to the help searching. The time stamp provides context to the number of articles, UTC is where time zones are measured from, if you are central time it is -6:00 and so on. I do not agree with turning the portal list into a left to right block, I am however planning on recoding to provide more context to the portal; if you pursue his change please inform us on why such a change is needed besides personal preference.

You guys reply so fast, I can't even keep up with my replies! Also, use the preview button until you see the reply you want, it makes it easier to interpret the history page; if that is not possible, start a user sub-page and then export it to the talk page. ChyranandChloe (talk) 22:17, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

"helpful people".--Allemandtando (talk) 22:32, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd prefer a list. "helpful people" is appealing, but I think a better one is still possible. ChyranandChloe (talk) 22:58, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Good article

How about featured lists instead of good articles? If there's ever been a model to support featured lists, it's this one.-Wafulz (talk) 15:17, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

We already have three lists: On this day, In the news, and Did you know. ChyranandChloe (talk) 04:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Most featured lists have a prose introduction.-Wafulz (talk) 15:14, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Quick comment

I really like this one! Bearcat (talk) 21:44, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, your support is appreciated. ChyranandChloe (talk) 04:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

In the news...

I think you should replace the wikinews logo with something else. It makes it look like a bit that the news is from wikinews. :/ Just my opinion. -- RyRy (talk) 09:34, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

In a way the ITN is closely related to Wikinews; if there is a better icon, then yes. ChyranandChloe (talk) 04:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Some observation

One TFA isnt enough, the right hand column has an extensive area of white space. along with the POTD concerns raised above this format just doesnt work for me. Gnangarra 12:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I do not understand by what you mean by "white space", can you clarify? ChyranandChloe (talk) 04:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Centering

ugh, it be hard to read centered text like that. especially bullet points. JoeSmack ^Talk 16:02, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Which centered text? I do not understand. ChyranandChloe (talk) 20:34, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I think he's talking about the text in the left column (TFA, DYK, OTD, etc.) --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 21:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Yep, thems the one. JoeSmack ^Talk 03:00, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for catching the bug, the fix will be implemented in the next update. ChyranandChloe (talk) 19:48, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok, just the benefit of knowing, the reason why the text is centered is because I forgot to specify the parameter align=left and since the default parameter was center — I guess it got past me on the first pass. ChyranandChloe (talk) 03:05, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Fixed IE7 errors in Dudemanfellabra entry

I've been working on fixing the right border problem in IE7 that you mention in the documentation. I played around with the code for the Help/Search bar, and I found that the border problem was actually a padding problem; the padding would "push" the border off-screen. By removing the 0.3em padding, the border re-appeared. That box is the only one I've worked on, but I assume all the other boxes should be able to be fixed close to - if not exactly - identically.. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 17:14, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I went back and fixed several other problems too..

1. The "Portals" section had white-ish top borders for all the sections, which looked all right in FF3, but in IE7 the outer table border was noncontinuous. I removed the top border and left the bottom, right, and left borders in-tact.
2. The "Sister Projects" section's right border was missing in IE7 as well. This was due to the nested table's width parameter. I removed it and changed the padding up a bit to re-display the border.
3. The lead section's padding (which you already addressed) was formerly applied to the table as a whole. FF3 works with this, but in IE7, the padding has to be applied to each individual element in the table for the same desired effect.
4. The top padding for the "Portals" and "Sister Projects" boxes would only display in FF3. Now I changed the padding parameter to margin, and everything works fine.

The only remaining IE7 compatibility error is the -moz-border-radius problem, and that is out of my hands.. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 17:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the notes, I'll see to the fixes. The -moz-border-radius is a Mozilla (firefox) exclusive features, until CSS3 comes out or at least until IE (likely in IE8) develops its own version CSS rounded corners, it won't be available; there is another option, -webkit-border-radius, this is for Apple's Safari web browser. ChyranandChloe (talk) 20:34, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

General Comments

Wow this is impressive, large icons make it easy to locate the article or topic that you want User:Ameeromar (talk) 09:11, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, there's a new feature that allows you to expand the sections in the portals to display sub-portals. In a way I think the portals are important because they broadly show the groups of almost all of Wikipedia's contents, rather than a single article on a subject like the FA or GA. ChyranandChloe (talk) 04:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Bug fixes, documentation, links and otherwise

There are now two new features: the Welcomes section (plans for another name), and expendable sub-featured-portal system (plans to expand). There are now several bug fixes that I've finally address: the featured content is now left aligned, and margins have been fixed for the top three sections. There are still a number of problems left: the right column does not correctly display its right border on IE, the featured picture hasn't been refinished — but that's for another time. The documentation will be updated tomorrow, tell me if you guys actually care about it(don't use its talk page, I don't like redirects). ChyranandChloe (talk) 10:08, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

my favorite

Great work. I would however:

• change "From Wikipedia's newest articles:" to "From the newest articles" or "From our newest articles" to avoid the repetition of the word "Wikipedia".
• reduce slightly the size of the portals and sister projects logos, they take up too much space

What do you think about the idea of having two featured articles presented instead of one?

Thanks, Randomblue (talk) 12:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC).

Thank you, I really appreciate useful comments, especially ones that point out the subtleties. I am planning on changing message from "From Wikipedia's newest articles:" to something else, but I am not in charge of the DYK template — and redesigning it, like that of the POTD, will take some time and effort — but I look into it, stay tuned. I cannot reduce the size of the image in the Sister projects because it needs to be of the same height of that of the text, I can however reduce the cell-padding. As for the portals, their size has beenr reduced from 45px to 40px. ChyranandChloe (talk) 03:03, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Broken POTD template

The recently updated POTD template has temporarily disabled the Recently featured update system for the POTD template used in this entry. A patch is underway to correct this. ChyranandChloe (talk) 02:31, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

WOW!!

After seeing your work on the new design ideas, I was impressed by your commitement! Thus, I feel I should award you...:

		The Original Barnstar
		For working hard towards that Main_Page redesign, I feel you deserve this for your efforts! Resident Mario (talk) 22:53, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

}}

Workshop 14

Alpha testing

In alpha testing right now. ChyranandChloe (talk) 03:51, 8 September 2008 (UTC)