Wikipedia talk:BNA

Regional

Well done for setting this up!

A quick note on what's actually in the BNA (perhaps worth adding to the page) - it's mostly regional papers. The major national titles (Times, etc) have previously been digitised by other providers and so aren't included in the archive. Very few titles go beyond the 1950s (the newest are 1963 and 1965, one each) and most stop in the early twentieth century. Andrew Gray (talk) 11:47, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

@Andrew Gray::  Done Thanks for the reminder to point that out (I would assumed most users would check that, but will question the few who mention BLPs). Sadads (talk) 16:48, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Problem with registration

I've been approved, have registered, but after three look-ups have been asked for payment. I've rechecked my registration details, logged out and logged back in again, but no joy. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Any advice? Thanks... Tony Holkham (talk) 22:15, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Having looked again, I think I have to wait to be upgraded by BNA Customer Support. I'll be patient,,,,Tony Holkham (talk) 22:19, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

The same problem here. Tony, please keep us informed when you get access.Regards,Jeff5102 (talk) 10:23, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm guessing as the scheme starts 1 July nothing will happen before then. I see there is a red link on WP:BNA for Approved accounts, so will watch that. Cheers...Tony Holkham (talk) 10:34, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

@Tony Holkham and Jeff5102: Sorry I didn't respond earlier: we are going to do all of them in one batch, and you will be contact when they become available (we have to manually update the access through their customer service, and we are going to do a batch all at once). Sadads (talk) 20:08, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for that...Tony Holkham (talk) 21:25, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

@Tony Holkham and Jeff5102: The first 28 accounts users that recieved emails and finished the Google form are active, including both of you. Just sign out and resign in, Sadads (talk) 15:56, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Ideas on what we can do with this data

I've just registered on the BNA website and followed the instructions to get set up, and await access with interest. In the meantime, I just thought I'd start a thread here to say: what can we do with this? I can think of a few things: obviously, articles on towns and villages can use this resource as a way of being sourced, along with articles on schools and biographical articles. The events surrounding churches, monasteries/convents, schools and other similar institutions are likely to be recorded in some of these newspapers too. I've been playing with the search engine—I don't yet have access to the content—and you do get some very odd things. It may take some effort to dig through to the meaty substance. I searched for the town where I went to school and have found articles from 1950 advertising "MOTORS FOR SALE". I've found old-fashioned job advertisments which were segregated by gender—"HELP WANTED—FEMALE" (later found illegal thanks to feminist legal challenges), and I've found old cricket scores, but have yet to find anything substantive that I'd be able to put in an article.

Does anyone have any bright ideas of what we could use this for? It'd probably also be useful if we had a page where we could list—almost DYK-like—what articles we've used BNA stuff in, so that the British Library can see the benefit it is having on improving the encyclopedia, and so Wikipedians can learn from each other on how we can use this treasure trove of data to improve the 'pedia. —Tom Morris (talk) 19:59, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

You covered most of the different ideas that I had: biographies, historical events, historical organizations, buildings and small communities. As for metrics we can use Special:LinkSearch (which I have already shown our contact there), and we will be providing metrics similar to the onces at Wikipedia:Credo_accounts/Metrics. If you have any other experiences, or documentation feel free to help build WP:BNA/Experiences or create another page with more material, Sadads (talk) 20:12, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

I was thinking of a search for (for example) orbituaries of British Members of Parliament. There are enough red links to be filled at the List of MPs elected in the United Kingdom general election, 1892, so let's get busy on that. Jeff5102 (talk) 13:28, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Obituaries would certainly be a major option. The real promise is historic events - the kind of things we would happily cover had they taken place in 2012, but completely ignore if they took place in 1892. Major strikes, public scandals, prominent legal cases, etc. The challenge is knowing to look for these in the first place, of course! Andrew Gray (talk) 20:28, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I did some work on Race to the North a while back which was a great press sensation at the time. It looks likely there is a lot more available here than I could find on Google news though so far all I have done is run a search and I have not used any of my three credits (!) looking at the actual articles. Thincat (talk) 07:08, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

The BNA could provide information and references for hundreds of articles. For example, I'd like to research the earlier history of stage director Alfred Kidney, who, according to Toronto newspapers was involved in light opera productions in the UK before arriving in Canada. (Unfortunately, I'm on the waiting list.) —Anne Delong (talk) 15:31, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

I've made extensive use of the BNA (through my own subscription, not via Wikipedia) in a rewrite of the The Great Tea Race of 1866. Part of the reason for this is that the various books that are relevant to the subject have noticeable errors (such as the finishing times of the participants having a "p.m." time listed as "a.m." - a simple typo). Some newspaper articles were the source material for the books, so are useful for working out what is correct. You have to be careful, as newspapers have errors of their own. However, once you've read enough of these old newspaper articles (and I have read over 3,500 search results as part of a different project), you get some sort of a feel for how authoritative they are. For instance, information on the sea trials of SS Erl King (1865) in the Glasgow Herald was written for a readership of ship-builders and ship-owners, so is likely to have been written with a degree of care. Adverts are also of interest - to check when Muntz metal came into use, a search picks up adverts of ships for sale that have this sort of anti-fouling sheathing. The Wikipedia article on this therefore becomes, though correct, misleading in listing Cutty Sark as an example, as she came right at the end of the period when this material was commonly used in this way. (It didn't work on a metal hull.)

The BNA also gives general English usage of the time - not only does this demonstrate the shift in "political correctness" (the past is another country!) but you also see how our language has changed over time. Probably outside the scope of Wikipedia, but the huge volume of data in the BNA allows mathematical analysis of language shifts.

I am not clear on how references should be shown when BNA material is obtained outside of any Wikipedia access arrangements. The same newspapers are, after all, available in various libraries - somewhere that one has to go if the BNA has yet to scan the years/titles you need. It seems to me important to list the page and column number of a newspaper reference. Even an article that you have previously read can be completely invisible if you don't have the column number. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 19:56, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Form of attribution for publisher and archive

The example given for attributing BNA suggests giving "publisher = [[British Newspaper Archive]]|subscription=yes" in {{cite news}}. However, in other situations, e.g. WP:HIGHBEAM, the recommended example is "newspaper= [[The Spokesman-Review]] {{Subscription required|via=[[HighBeam Research]]}}" which seems a more accurate (but less simple) formulation to me. What's the best thing here? Thincat (talk) 07:57, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

I believe either way is fine (@Ocaasi:). I was opting for the simpler version based on how a few previous editors had used the database. The key is documentation of as much information as possible, and making sure that the subscription requirement is clear. Feel free to reach a consensus for change if one is better than the other. Sadads (talk) 16:13, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, either is fine. Cheers, Ocaasi ^{t | c} 20:16, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Use of images?

I've just found a sketch portrait of someone for whom I am creating an article. The portrait appeared in The Manchester Times in 1892 and is available at the BNA. A screencap of the portrait (no text) is not difficult to do but where do we stand when it comes to licensing issues? In more usual circumstances, I'd probably upload to Commons but the restrictions of our arrangement with the BNA make me think that it may not even be possible to upload to en-WP. I'm not remotely good when it comes to the intricacies of image work here. Please can someone clarify when can or cannot be done within the scope of the arrangement. - Sitush (talk) 18:09, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

They claim copyright on the content. My understanding (IANAL) is that this is something they can do under UK law, but it is a grey area for US law. Their T&Cs state: "If you use any content from the website , whether online or offline, you must make it clear where you have found the material by including a reference to the British Newspaper Archive and also including the copyright statement that appears on the page you are on." Even if it would be legal, it would be against WP policy for us to use material from them and include their copyright statement, so I think that means we can't upload screen-grabbed images from there, unless the image is being used under WP:NFCC. Formerip (talk) 19:09, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. That's what I feared. The article is now live - James Farmer (knight) - and I'll continue to work on it as long as someone doesn't send it to AfD! WP:NPOL should cover it. I've been trying to find stuff on this guy and his company for ages and pretty much drawn a blank from a notability perspective (the company later became Sir James Farmer, Norton), so it will be an interesting test. I've never managed to find a picture of him, although I might try again with Salford Council because I find it hard to believe their statement that they don't have a portrait of a mayor of the Victorian period. - Sitush (talk) 19:45, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Surely now you have found which newspaper has the picture you want, you can go to a local library that has their own copy and get the image that way. The BNA acts as an index for you in this instance. Perhaps different libraries vary, but I don't recollect any problems on copyright on old material from my local archive centre. Maybe I'm missing the point, but thought I should mention this idea.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 20:10, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Just checked Manchester Library website - they have this newspaper on microfilm, but have some strict copyright restrictions on any print of this. The trigger of copyright is a copy being created on their microfilm reader in their library. Seems all the libraries are tightening up on these rules.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 19:52, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

@Sitush: : this image issue could also be a good opportunity to blog about the article you are working on as a BNA guest blogger and they will put the article in open access. They can profile the material in a freely accessable format on their own website. Email me if you are interested. However, please do follow the T&C for not screen capturing and republishing: that is one thing that we promise our users won't do in the MOU and could be grounds for ending your access or the partnership, Sadads (talk) 02:14, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

My understanding is that it would be illegal for them to claim copyright on material for which they don't have the copyright. This would include unattributed texts that are over 50 years old, or attributed texts that are 70 years after the death of the author. In the UK, a scan of an image is considered a new image, and copyright can be claimed. This is not the case in the USA where trivial two-dimensional copies are not considered derivatives (see Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp.). However, they can ask that you don't copy their work, as terms of their service, and withdraw those services if you don't comply. --Iantresman (talk) 11:01, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

+1 to User:Iantresman's comments. Part of it to is that some of the publishers of the newspapers are still active organizations in the UK, and BNA had to sign a contract with those organizations and the British Library to give access to the copies under certain conditions. Our contact at the BNA would be very willing to make articles/pages of interest open access (the goal of the Wikipedia Library's efforts) under two process: either on their website or for use with a copyright claim on a Wikipedia users blog. However, because of the complications of British copyright law and the good will and terms of service that make the partnership possible, we need to stick to their claims, despite any disagreements we might have. Sadads (talk) 16:21, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Just checked the exact status with BNA and it is as we feared. Very easy to publish on a non-commercial blog, absolutely impossible under current polices to include in Wikipedia. Colin aka Henri Merton 21:38, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Successful start

For my first foray into the BNA archive I started with something simple - Rosebush, Pembrokeshire, an article I've been working on recently. I was rewarded with 34 results, including news of a murder, railway planning and operation, archaeological discussions about bluestones, land disputes and local landowners. The search results were very readable, and simple to download for looking at later. This is exactly what I had hoped from this project, so thanks to User:Sadads for making it possible. Tony Holkham (talk) 20:06, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

@Tony Holkham: Glad it was a success! From a logistics standpoint this was a painless set up for us as well: definitely a good partnership! Make sure to document anything that would make a particularly good blog post! Sadads (talk) 14:30, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Metrics sub-page

What will go in this sub-page? Should I be retaining any data on searches for input later? Tony Holkham (talk) 20:14, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Tony Holkham, we'll run an external link query and update it there, so there's nothing for individual editors to do at this point. Thanks and cheers, Ocaasi ^{t | c} 20:18, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Here is a search for relevant links although here is a search relating to the entire BNA site. It looks to be that links made back in 2012 are now broken, possibly if the BNA has been reorganised. See some of the citations in Gananoque (ship). Thincat (talk) 08:17, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

@Thincat: Thanks for identifying the problem links; it would be great if someone fixed them! I think they went through a redesign in the recent past (along with some of their sister sites). We have a programer that takes those queries from the historical databases, and is able to break them out into basic calculations. Eventually we hope for a slightly more robust tool, but the project is still really new, Sadads (talk) 15:35, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Some difficulties, but has already been useful

The BNA is already proving very useful. I have found several sources which I have been able to use to expand the Beaumanor Hall article, adding details of earlier buildings on the site (there were three previous Halls there that the article contained no mention of) as well as further detail on the current hall, a date of death and some further details to add to the Brendel Anstey article, and a source for Swithland Reservoir giving us the date of opening and capacity. I have found some difficulties due to OCR issues, and there is (as one would expect) a lot of routine reporting to sift through to find encyclopedic detail, but this will be a really useful resource. --Michig (talk) 11:27, 29 June 2014 (UTC) I have now found several additional sources which have allowed the Swithland Reservoir article to be expanded considerably. --Michig (talk) 13:54, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

@Michig:: Glad to hear that its useful. I have been very impressed with everyone's work so far! Keep it up! Sadads (talk) 14:43, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

I think the Reggie Meen article that I created today shows how useful the BNA can be. Very little from a Google search, but plenty of coverage in the BNA of a 1930s British heavyweight champion. --Michig (talk) 17:04, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

My First article based on BNA

Here it is: Charles Harvey Combe. It still can use some rework, but I couldn not have done it without the archive.Jeff5102 (talk) 21:49, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

@Jeff5102: Looks great! Keep up the good work (and sorry I didn't respond sooner)! We love having feedback from recipients! Sadads (talk) 14:46, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Another attribution problem

Following a helpful suggestion by Sadads, I have just started using the BNA. Not through Wikipedia, but through a library membership I had already.

The first article I have tried it on is the biog of Admiral Theobald Jones MP, for whom I have found a few refs. I have just added the first ref, as follows:

 {{cite news
  | title = Officers of the Army and Navy who are members of Parliament, with their ranks and emoluments
  | newspaper = [[Freeman's Journal|Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser]]
  | location = Dublin, Ireland
  | date = 20 November 20 1833
  | id = BC3204516347
  | publisher = {{Subscription required|via=[[British Newspaper Archive]]}}
  | accessdate = 4 July 2014
 }}

That's a little unsatisfactory in two ways:

1. No page number was available, which I consider an extraordinary omission. Page numbers are one of the basic components of any citation of a printed work, but I can't find a page number anywhere of the scans of the whole page, or in the metadata. Has anyone asked BNA whether this can be fixed? Without page numbers, I feel that the value of the source is seriously degraded.
2. the ID doesn't appear to be one of the many types specifically recognised by {{Cite news}}. Shouldn't it be possible for {{Cite news}} to use this ID to create some sort of link. Has anyone asked the folks who maintain {{cite news}} whether they could look into this?

I like having access to the material, but am unhappy about those two points. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:44, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Are you sure about the page numbers? It seems to me that the page numbers are always at the top right (although not if you are viewing full screen). Formerip (talk) 20:13, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

@FormerIP: (fixed ping), no definitely not on top right of the scan or top right of the page. :(

I wonder whether my library access is to some sort of degraded version of the database.

Would you have a moment to try searching for that Freeman's Journal article I cited, and see if you can find a page number? (A search for "Theobald Jones" after 01 November 1833 brings it up under the title "REPEAL OF THE UNION"). --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:58, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

I searched for that and it is on page 2. Hurrah! My first useful search on the BNA website! Formerip (talk) 20:13, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

As for the page numbers: from the public facing website, the last 4 digits of the url are the page number, moreover there is a drop-down menu on the top right with the page number in it. Some of the copies that I have looked at also have page numbers. But with older newspapers, this isn't always the case, Sadads (talk) 14:10, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Sadads and Formerip.

I don't see any such drop-down menu. How is it labelled?

And the URL I get isn't very helpful either: find.galegroup.com/bncn/retrieve.do?sgHitCountType=None&sort=DateAscend&prodId=BNWS&tabID=T012&subjectParam=Locale%2528en%252C%252C%2529%253AFQE%253D%2528tx%252CNone%252C14%2529Theobald%2BJones%253AAnd%253ALQE%253D%2528da%252CNone%252C12%2529%253E%2B11%252F01%252F1833%2524&resultListType=RESULT_LIST&searchId=R3&displaySubject=&searchType=BasicSearchForm&currentPosition=1&qrySerId=Locale%28en%2C%2C%29%3AFQE%3D%28tx%2CNone%2C14%29Theobald+Jones%3AAnd%3ALQE%3D%28da%2CNone%2C12%29%3E+11%2F01%2F1833%3AAnd%3ALQE%3D%28MB%2CNone%2C26%29%22BLN1%22+OR+%22BLN2%22+OR+%22BRNY%22%24&retrieveFormat=MULTIPAGE_DOCUMENT&subjectAction=DISPLAY_SUBJECTS&inPS=true&userGroupName=lancs&sgCurrentPosition=0&contentSet=LTO&&docId=&docLevel=FASCIMILE&workId=&relevancePageBatch=BC3204516347&contentSet=UBER2&callistoContentSet=UBER2&docPage=article&hilite=y

Where is the page number in that? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:20, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

@BrownHairedGirl: Ah, Gale! Thats a different database I think. They often have backward database access for things...I have never been happy with Gale systems while researching at Universities. Why don't I issue you one of our accounts for BNA (which is owned by D.C. Thompson, so I think a different database), it is much more friendly than any Gale database I have used before, Sadads (talk) 12:22, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Sadads. That would be great.

My inner pedant has been giving me a very hard time about the lack of page numbers. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:36, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

@BrownHairedGirl:: Sent you an email; fill out the google form, and I will get you off in the batch of accounts this morning :) Sadads (talk) 13:11, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Sadads, got your email. Look fwd to being signed up tomorrow :) --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:58, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

A place where people can request research

This may not be particularly appropriate place to discuss this rather broad issue. Right now one can ask a question on the reference desk - where people answer without citations or one can ask for a specific reference on WP:RX. Where can one request literature research on a particular topic? Especially with this newspaper archive resource, it seems to be easier to research a topic for oneself than for others unless there is enough of a context. I however believe we should be using this for greater benefit than just for those who have been granted access. Shyamal (talk) 13:16, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

If you want to create a research support subpage for this database: that would be awesome! If you all are ready to answer questions from WikiProjects, we can definitely do that. However, remember, per the TOS we cannot download and share copies of the newspapers. That being said: if a user without access needs a particular item, and we think it will be of significant profile, we can also request that one or two pages become Open Access examples. Also, BNA has been very receptive, and the amount of new content already happening is very, very good, so I expect we should be able to issue more accounts as they come into demand, Sadads (talk) 13:45, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Expected to get notification process completed

I signed up a few days ago and received a notification from BNA but when I logged in only had 3 free articles. I was expecting to be informed when the process was completed but logging in today the 1 free article left changed to unlimited. I am now using it on Muchelney Abbey which I'm trying to work towards GA. Lots of good stuff but having to play around with zooming for my eyesight.— Rod ^talk 15:08, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

@Rodw: You were in the batch processed this morning :P I hadn't gotten a chance to send an email out verifying your access. Glad that you think it will be useful, Sadads (talk) 15:16, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Link checker shows BNA server as 503 error

I was just checking the links on Brean Down as it's GA review has started & used the checklinks service (see Checklinks: Brean Down. It shows links to BNA as error code 503 "SERVER: The service is unavailable." although when I click in the link the correct clipping appears. Does anyone know if this possible "bug" has previously been identified or if there is a fix?— Rod ^talk 19:35, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Hey @Rodw: Sorry I didn't respond to this sooner, I thought I had. It probably has to do with the paywall system they have. The links work when logged in, Sadads (talk) 18:13, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Funny results wait for me!

Already input a refference in Thomas Lord via BNA, which contains vast of knowledge. It may be useful to build up for better WIKI like as Bengali Wikipedia. I think, this project will be very fruitful for everyone who bears the BNA accounts. Thanks a lot to you, Sadads. Have a nice day. - Suvray (talk) 04:18, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Clicking on refs generated using BNA subscription

I've noticed that if you click on a ref generated from a BNA search (and you have a BNA subscription) the ref takes you to the page, but not the original search term (e.g. Boncath, Ref 7). Finding the actual item on a broadsheet page full of small print could be difficult; article headings in the left hand column may or may not help. I don't know what the search looks like if you don't have a subscription. Is this going to be a problem? If so, would it be a good idea to include in the ref the column number and/or article heading and/or original search term...? Tony Holkham (talk) 13:20, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

@Tony Holkham: Thats a good point, and I will pass the information on to our contacts at BNA. Sadads (talk) 17:59, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Still on restricted access

I signed up some time ago but I still do not have free access to the full database Wayne Jayes (talk) 11:08, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Time needed for registration

I was approved and signed up over a week ago, but I'm still being asked to pay for results after the first three. Is there something else that needs to happen? John M Baker (talk) 17:49, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Hey @John M Baker: since you are on the tail end of the sign ups, we are sending them batches of user accounts a little bit more infrequently. I sent your information off this morning, usually its activated within a few days, Sadads (talk) 17:54, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Sadads. John M Baker (talk) 18:19, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

It's still asking for a subscription. I used a different email (Yahoo) to register with BNA than I use for Wikipedia (which doesn't like Yahoo emails for some reason). Could that be a factor? John M Baker (talk) 15:34, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Hey @John M Baker: I am investigating, hopefully they will work soon! Sadads (talk) 16:24, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

@Sadads: I'm having the same issue -- I signed up some time ago but my account is asking me to subscribe now that I've looked at three articles. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:44, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

@John M Baker and Mike Christie: Our POC has been intermittently out of office in the past couple weeks, and finishes this most recent round of ooo tomorrow/Monday, so I expect to have a more efficient and effective issuing of accounts by earlier next week. Sorry for the delay, summers are always a little hectic for business operations, especially when you are limited to a handful of people to finish things :P Sadads (talk) 13:08, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Mine is working now. Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:50, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

@John M Baker and Mike Christie: Yours should be good too!Sadads (talk) 15:39, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I received an email last week on August 20, when I was on vacation, and it seems to have been working since then. John M Baker (talk) 18:12, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

@Chris troutman: Could it be made clear in the email to new users that the free access won't be available immediately? I too wondered what was going on when I was asked to pay after looking at three results and only realised what the problem was when I came here. Richerman (talk) 21:23, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Will do. Yes, there is some processing time involved and we haven't made that clear enough. Thanks for the input; I'll change the e-mail for future use. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:51, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Brilliant! thanks. Richerman (talk) 22:23, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Getting started

Finally logged in and with full access (thanks @User:Sadads). It is going to be tricky to keep focussed with access to so much info! Got my first ref today to add to an existing article. I can see many an hour wasted reading above and below relevant news articles! Warren (talk) 13:28, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Created a new article for Bucks County Show and started to fleshed out the history with some good refs from the BNA. However it seems very cumbersome to note the ref in detail and wonder if I am missing a trick? Warren (talk) 19:22, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

New reference tool

There is a new Visual Editor reference feature in development called Citoid. It is designed to "auto-fill" references using a URL or DOI. We would really appreciate you testing whether TWL partners' references work in Citoid. Sharing your results will help the developers fix bugs and improve the system. If you have a few minutes, please visit the testing page for simple instructions on how to try this new tool. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:50, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Turning in my membership

I've found that most of what I'm working on has little in the BNA archives, so I'd like to turn in my membership to allow someone else to have access. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:58, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi Mike, unfortunately we don't have the possibility of returns with this partnership, but there are still accounts available for others to apply. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:22, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Oh, well, I can keep trying it and see if anything turns up for the articles I'm working on. Thanks. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:35, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

1931 Menshevik Trial

I am not using the BNA as much as I would. However, improvements like these at the 1931 Menshevik Trial-article show how useful the BNA is. I am still happy with my subscriptrion! Best regards,Jeff5102 (talk) 08:42, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

BNA citation

I've been using my own personal BNA account a lot for both my own personal genealogical research and for my forays onto Wikipedia (Draft:Chris Green (horse racing) and Half Caste (horse)) and it is a stellar resource for both. I have been using your simpler citation format which I think is excellent - save one small point: pages are indeed usually covered in the URL but perhaps an |at= parameter (Help:Citation Style 1 'Pages' section) to introduce the column number(s) can be added? a large article with its own heading is not so much a problem, but a small news item in a large list (especially with a BNA 'heading' that may cover two or three pages is really difficult to re-find. Colin aka Henri Merton 21:40, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi Colin, because our citation is based on {{cite news}}, it should already support an 'at' parameter, which can certainly be used where appropriate. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:26, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Renewal possible?

To editor Nikkimaria: BNA tells me my subscription (free via the WP Library) is due to expire soon. Can it be renewed through WP Lib? I am still an active editor and use the BNA quite a bit (though many searches are fruitless, of course - the nature of the thing) and so I would find it helpful to continue with it. Thanks & regards, Tony. Tony Holkham (Talk) 09:30, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

+1 - I have been able to use it quite well on wiki and really hope for a renewal too, maybe reselect applicants through another round of fresh applications? Shyamal (talk) 10:11, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

@Tony Holkham and Shyamal: When your subscription expires you are welcome to reapply for access! Nikkimaria (talk) 11:51, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Renewal delay

I know there was going to be a delay in renewals due to summer holidays, and I appreciate this depends on volunteer effort, but should my account have renewed yet? It's been over 2 weeks now. Thanks in advance. --Michig (talk) 06:59, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

5 weeks... Bazj (talk) 08:13, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Michig, Bazj, your emails were both sent on to BNA for processing, but our contact there has been out of the office - he should be able to resume responding to requests within a few days. Sorry for the delay and thanks for your patience! Nikkimaria (talk) 17:35, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. Not a problem, just wasn't sure if I'd got lost in the system somewhere. --Michig (talk) 17:57, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Approved account not free

It's been a little while since you approved my request and I subsequently set up my account but it still seems not to be free. Any idea when it might become available? I'm very keen to get using it. FunkyCanute (talk) 16:01, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Sorry to bother, but I'm still waiting. I'm really keen to get using the service. FunkyCanute (talk) 17:31, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

@FunkyCanute: Apologies for the delay on a response here; is this still an issue? Sam Walton (talk) 17:22, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

@Samwalton9: Unfortunately, yes, it's still a problem. FunkyCanute (talk) 09:12, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Renewal not come through yet

@TLSuda: I still don't have access after more than 5 weeks - is there something I need to do? Richerman (talk) 11:52, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Still don't have access - it's been over two months now. Richerman (talk) 23:23, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

@Richerman and TLSuda: Apologies for the long delay; have you been provided with access yet? If not we can follow this up for you. Sam Walton (talk) 17:22, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Yes, it came through eventually thanks. Richerman (talk) 21:50, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

@Samwalton9: (and possibly @Nikkimaria:) I don't wish to say "me too" but I've been waiting for my BNA subscription to be renewed for nearly 4 months, and TLSuda appears to have disappeared. What's going on? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 09:28, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Your request and several others were sent to BNA a couple of months ago, but we haven't had any response. Ocaasi is talking to them to try to work things out. This is also why no one's been approved lately. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:38, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Discontinued

Hi all. I'm sad to say that we are no longer able to distribute accounts to BNA. Despite the hugely popular nature of BNA resources and our best efforts to convince our contacts of this, structural changes at their parent organisation(s) mean that there is no longer interest in continuing the partnership with The Wikipedia Library. Existing accounts should continue to the end of their one year period, but we are unfortunately unable to process new applications or, it seems, recent applications that had not yet been activated. If you are still interested in access to newspapers I recommend you take a look at Newspapers.com, Newspaperarchive.com, Gale, or one of our other available newspaper partners to see if they have content you may find useful. Let me know if you have any questions. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 19:30, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

This is a shame. Perhaps one of the project editors could amend the project page, as people are still asking for renewals. Tony Holkham (Talk) 10:39, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

It really is a shame. I've put a notice on the project page in the absence of anything better. Pinging the outstanding new requesters - Pavan santhosh.s, Clithering, Lemongirl942, Atlantic306 and renewers - Ritchie333, Keri, Iantheimp, SlimVirgin, Thincat, Apwoolrich so everybody's aware. Cabayi (talk) 12:12, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

It is a shame. Still, it helped me to trudge all the way to the local library to access physical sources instead of just doing them online, but still it's a lot easier to do research online in the comfort of home or the office. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:11, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Ah, I wish I could have used it. The British newspaper archives was more suitable for me. Anyway, I will try newspaperarchive.com I guess. Thank you for pinging me. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 13:57, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

@Tony Holkham and Cabayi: Marking the page as closed is on my to-do list to add to the new header template, thanks for adding the notice in the meantime! :) Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 21:55, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

I should add to Samwalton9's alternatives that Welsh newspapers online are free to search. Tony Holkham (Talk) 22:15, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

That is very sad news indeed. It was my only source for local newspapers for the county of Somerset in England to about 1950. Fortunately I can use my UK library card to access The Times online archive as well as Gale. Sadly, my UK library has just dropped their subscription to the online Grove Dictionary of Music Any chance of the WP Library picking that up, please? Many thanks. Apwoolrich (talk) 06:52, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Apwoolrich, City of London libraries just have a UK proof-of-address requirement and carry "Oxford Music Online - contains all of the Oxford and Grove Music titles." [1] Cabayi (talk) 07:48, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

(sigh): Writing articles like this one will get immeasurably harder. Given the free advertising they get from all the reference links, you'd think this would remain a good PR opportunity if nothing else. But alas that they have decided otherwise. -- Euryalus (talk) 07:56, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

We thought so too; to us this partnership seems like a win-win, but it's no longer seen this way by the organisations involved unfortunately. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 21:55, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

I guess each UK library service has different criteria when deciding which online resource to support. The article on Frank Mercer I wrote last year would have been pretty well impossible without the lead to the Western Daily Press article of 1950, as there is no other published biography of him. I'm not sure how many WP editors are signed up to the service, but maybe the Foundation might be willing to fund the subscriptions as the means of continuing to get quality articles for WP. I read in the Signpost recently that the Foundation is very well funded now.Apwoolrich (talk) 11:05, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

I also just came across Wikipedia:Free English newspaper sources which may be of use to those of you affected by this. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 15:43, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

I've found my Kent Libraries card allows me a whole bunch of free newspaper sources, including access to the entire Times archive, which makes me a very very happy man, and makes Wikipedia have a few more GAs in the queue. Which is nice :-) Thanks for all your support and assistance in this area, Sam. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:52, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

@Ritchie333: That's great! No problem. We want to do more to encourage use of local libraries, any thoughts you have on that would be welcome. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 16:42, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Basically, I think you can walk into your local library with some proof of ID and address like your driving licence (heck, I got a British Library card, anything else is easy), and the library card will give you access to the Gale newspaper archives. This is what my local library has to offer. The entire Parlimentary Hansard is all online here, and while it's a bit of work to separate fact from opinion in the debates, it can be a quick an easy way to identify decisions and give background insights into things. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 17:06, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

On the other hand, within the last few months the Devon Library service has removed the free online access to the 19th Century British Library Newspapers archive and the Times Digital Archive (both parts of Gale, I think), as well as the NewsBank UK Newspapers archive. Devon's library service has been hived off to a social enterprise called Libraries Unlimited, whose stated mission is to "bring ideas, imagination, knowledge and creativity to people's lives and communities". There's no mention of research, and a cynic might note that the aforementioned newspaper archives appear to have been replaced by Zinio which provides free access to magazines such as Hello! and What Car? Hmm. I'm sure that Libraries Unlimited will appeal to more people than the old service did and will therefore give better perceived value for money, so watch out – something similar is probably heading your way. (/rant)  —SMALLJIM  16:03, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

Available again

@Tony Holkham, Ritchie333, Cabayi, and Euryalus: I'm pleased to let you know that BNA is now available again! You can apply here, and will receive a voucher code after being approved :) Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 12:43, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

I just had an email through with an invitation to apply, as I submitted it as a suggestion a while back. Glad to see they have rejoined the scheme! Bungle ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:03, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Unable to access beyond three free previews

I applied for this resource and received a coupon code. After receiving my approval email, I followed the directions an entered the coupon code at https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/coupon. It then directed me to either login or register. I registered an account, but after activating the account, it only let me view three free previews of newspaper clippings. When I try to enter the coupon code again, it says the coupon code is not valid. Is this normal? Can I expect it to work in a few days, or did something go wrong here? Tkbrett (✉) 18:08, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

BNA email

If you have access to the British Newspaper Archive through The Wikipedia Library, you may have just received an email stating that the subscription cost will be increasing. As far as we understand it, this is an email sent to all users with a BNA account, and does not mean that you will be charged any money for your BNA access. When your 12-month voucher code expires, you will not be charged any money and can simply ask us for a new voucher code to continue receiving free access. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 10:40, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Will this be available again anytime soon?

I would like to GA review Sleaford Joint Sixth Form and Kesteven and Sleaford High School which both rely heavily on this archive. If I remember correctly, this was available recently? What happened? It is a wonderful world (talk) 19:21, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@It is a wonderful world Unfortunately I don't think so, at least for the foreseeable future. The proxy-based access was technically complex and required too much maintenance time, and the voucher-based access unfortunately required a subscription which renewed automatically by default, inadvertently charging some Wikipedia users, so we deemed it too risky to continue. We'll reevaluate again in the future to see if there's a way for us to provide access, but it doesn't seem like it at this point. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 10:47, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

@Samwalton9 (WMF) Thank you very much for explaining. I understand other areas would better benefit from the maintenance time. It is unfortunate. It is a wonderful world (talk) 11:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Dear Sam; I am watching this page and noticed the exchange, above. I therefore also wanted to thank you for clarifying the current situation. It really is most unfortunate, as the BNA is a fabulous resource, for example as an aid to retrace the careers of performers who were very popular in their day, but for whom biographies were never written. You may remember, from our earlier exchanges via email, that I used the BNA extensively as a source to create the article on Felice Lascelles, and I was hoping that access would eventually be renewed so that I could repeat this effort for similar performers. I am therefore hopeful that a new and workable solution might be found in the not-too-distant future, and thank you once again for all your helpful assistance.
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(become old-fashioned!)} 14:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)