Wikipedia talk:Bilorv's Challenges

Women of the Year

I Am Woman

Be responsible for successfully bringing three articles on women to DYK. The "hear me roar" bonus is bringing three articles on women to GA, or FA.

• Winners: evrik (x3)<ref name="evrik"/>

Painting the town blue bonus

• Bonus if each article falls under the scope of WikiProject Women in Red.
• Winners: evrik (x2)<ref name="evrik"/>

How about a category for authoring three articles on women, or featured by the Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red, and getting them to DYK, GA, or FA? --evrik ^(talk) 22:54, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

• Three articles is a fairly easy challenge. What does "featured by Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red" mean? —Kusma (talk) 16:29, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

• Not every challenge need be hard ... Have any ideas? When I say featured, I mean listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Redlist index. --evrik ^(talk) 16:38, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
  • "Bilorv's challenges are a series of off-beat and difficult editing challenges. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:14, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

• Hard, difficult, you're splitting hairs. ;-) "Animal, vegetable, mineral" and "well-dressed" use the same standard. What do your propose? Women is a large topic area - we should include it. --evrik ^(talk) 18:25, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

  Bonus for decadent. —Kusma (talk) 18:44, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

• While I like the title, "Decadent" already has a WiR bonus and it's a more complete, natural condition (see my comment below about "Alphabet"). Why three and not four or five or thirty? We could say "one in each Redlist index" but that could be too changeable or cumbersome given some of the subcategories (so many U.S. universities have their own subpage, but geographic diversity is desirable). I'm open to more in this topic area but waiting for a eureka moment. — Bilorv (talk) 20:46, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

  I modified the bonusI like the topic area. How would you spiff up the requirements? --evrik ^(talk) 03:49, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

  I'm not sure. I want to find something that would make a 'complete set'. How about something Events-related? Maybe a piece of content included in a monthly WiR initiative for each month of the year? (Mixing and matching years e.g. an 'N' woman in Jan 24, Black woman in Feb 21, ..., ending with a Southeast Asian woman in Dec 22.) — Bilorv (talk) 18:09, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

  Maybe something like bringing an article on a woman deleted at AfD to DYK, an article created as part of Women in Red to GA, and an article improved as part of Women in Green to FA? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:40, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

  Let's not overthink this. Animal Vegetable Mineral has a pretty low bar. I say make it three articles to DYK or GA. We can go crazy with the bonuses. --evrik ^(talk) 20:30, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

  You're missing the point evrik, Bilorv has said here and below that he wants the challenges to feel "naturally complete". Animal Vegetable Mineral has three articles because it is a famous phrase. Diplomat asks for articles that connect two continents, but not three or five or ten articles, because that would not be "naturally complete". Like Bilorv's suggestion with WiR events, I'm trying to find something that feels "complete" and not just an arbitrary number of articles on an arbitrary topic to an arbitrary goal. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:59, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

• I'm not missing the point. I just think we're overthinking it. Also, it would be nice to see better representation of women's issues. --evrik ^(talk) 21:02, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

I think the original suggestions would be good awards to suggest at WikiProject Women in Red itself, or thresholds for giving out barnstars. AirshipJungleman29's idea is a bit like "Phoenix", which I'm still very pleased with as a Challenge and keen to see someone win (not enough FFA's have been brought back to FA).

I don't know that anyone else does but I like my monthly Events-related idea. It could be a year-long Challenge for someone looking to get involved in WiR or it could be a matter of crossing off the missing months if you've been an active participant. I'm trying to find a title that incorporates both "women" and the calendar/months/a year as a theme ("Women of the Year"?). — Bilorv (talk) 10:27, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Well, let's get something out there. Thi is a good topical challenge. --evrik ^(talk) 15:11, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

"Women of the Year" added. — Bilorv (talk) 16:54, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. --evrik ^(talk) 17:07, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

@Oronsay: I saw that you started the page, Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Meetup/295. Is Wikipedia:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Events the place where all the WiR challenges are listed? Thank you for any help you may be able to provide. --evrik ^(talk) 17:07, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping, @Evrik. Yes, that's correct. While Women in Red editors sometimes add new and updated bios to the upcoming events before the start of the month, we don't add them to last month's events. If a bio doesn't fit the subjects of this month's events, or the 2024 year-long Education, we add them to #1day1woman. We also add images uploaded to Commons to the relevant event page. The Ideas page is where we discuss and plan forthcoming events and includes a table of annual ones. Finally, please join Women in Red and you will receive our monthly newsletter announcing the upcoming events and collaborations on your Talk page. Oronsay (talk) 19:39, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

userbox

This user has achieved 1 entry on Bilorv's Challenges.

Thoughts? --evrik ^(talk) 22:29, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

It's a bit odd to say "is recognized" as it's a self-certified challenge; probably best as "has achieved". ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:56, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

• Change made. Now ... where to create the template? What about hre: Wikipedia:Did_you_know/Awards#DYK_Hall_of_Fame. Call it {{User DYK Challenges}}? --evrik ^(talk) 16:08, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

  Just create it in your userspace. —Kusma (talk) 16:58, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

  See WP:CREATEUBX, and why "User DYK Challenges"? That's pretty misleading. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:19, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

• I'm not tied to the name. Just throwing something out to see what sticks. --evrik ^(talk) 18:26, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Love this! Maybe "Bilorv's Challenges" should be linked to User:Bilorv/Challenges. Also, the icons for each Challenge look great. I had considered whether we could have icon logos before but I don't have the best eye for choosing visuals. — Bilorv (talk) 20:46, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

{{Bilorv's Challenges}} Can someone help me create this? --evrik ^(talk) 22:24, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

@Evrik: what part do you need help with? — Bilorv (talk) 19:46, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

The mechanics of making a userbox. --evrik ^(talk) 15:44, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

@Evrik: copying the code you had into any page creates it as a userbox, ready to be transcluded. I've made it at User:Bilorv/Challenges/Userbox with a few tweaks to the wording and link, and some documentation (which is optional). Let me know if this isn't what you meant. — Bilorv (talk) 21:32, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! --evrik ^(talk) 02:51, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Switch

Noting that the standard number of DYK hooks has recently been changed to nine, so the "Switch" challenge may need to be clarified (e.g. does a quirky hook from 2021 count as the eighth or ninth hook?) ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:56, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

• I say we "exempt" those people who have already completed the challenge.
  {{efn|name=DYKslot|Note that the first slot is the image slot. Also, the number of slots changed on [Insert date here]. Those who earned the challenge before that date are exempted from having to re-earn it.}} --evrik ^(talk) 16:06, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

A possibility would be to pass the challenge with eight different slots and get a bonus for nine. —Kusma (talk) 16:57, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, this is a strange one. When I wrote "Switch" I considered that the number varies, per WP:DYKSETLENGTH. I'm inclined to keep it at eight because if the number changes in the future then it could be unattainable to achieve a ninth slot. (That is, you need first to eighth, and subsequent slots are ignored. A "quirky" hook is still numbered forwards from one, rather than always being eighth.) I also don't want to delist people who have already completed the Challenge. Then again, I suppose you could make the same arguments for six. When did the number change recently and what's the history of it? — Bilorv (talk) 20:46, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

It changed around a month ago Bilorv, because people analysed the number of hooks submitted per year and came to the conclusion that nine-hook sets would prevent the need for occasionally going to two sets/day, which really pressurises the entire system. So far, it seems to be working well, with the number of approved hooks generally stable at between 80 and 100, so it could be a long-term solution. Since the challenge has no bonus, maybe Kusma's solution would be best (if you wanted to make it really difficult, make it a number of nine-hook sets)? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:10, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, there could be some wording that allows for changes ("all available slots at the time of completion") or maybe it could be changed to nine with a note saying "If all hooks are before April 2024 then the requirement is eight". Kusma's suggestion is clever but the conceit of the Challenge is that you have a "full set", as if your hooks collectively make up a full slate on DYK from the image slot to the quirky slot. If you have eight out of nine then that's not a full set anymore. — Bilorv (talk) 18:09, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay I've just gone with "first to ninth". The original wording was "every slot" and "first to eighth" was a parenthetical clarification of what that meant at the time. I've added a note indicating when this was changed. — Bilorv (talk) 20:07, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Page move

What say we move this to: Wikipedia:Did you know/Challenges? --evrik ^(talk) 16:10, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Most of the challenges have nothing to do with Did you Know. Also, it is kind of neat that this is a fairly hidden page (only a handful links from Wikipedia or Wikipedia talk space point here). As a userspace page, it is super unofficial. Which is good. —Kusma (talk) 16:24, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Good point. Still, it may be good to think about a forever home. --evrik ^(talk) 16:40, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

There's no risk that userspace isn't a forever home. If Bilorv wants to move the page, I'm sure they're able to decide that. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 17:00, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

If it was in mainspace I wouldn't put it under DYK and I'd wonder if I can finally find a more creative/specific name for what this all is. The reason I've kept it in my userspace, perhaps selfishly, is that it gives me the ability to curate. There's a quirky style I'm going for and I want the page to have one voice. My favourites have most of these features: unrewarded elsewhere on the site; can be described in a few words, with a witty title; all the conditions are natural without arbitrary numbers. For instance, "all the letters of the alphabet" is a natural condition, but "five articles that satisfy X" is not (why not 10?). When you read "Alphabet" (perhaps the one that made me create the page) you should go "I can't believe no-one has made this before!" I'll admit some of my own creations don't follow these principles, in hindsight, and there are a couple I'd consider removing.

On being fairly hidden, I'd be happy for it to be advertised more widely, but maybe this does add to the appeal and help keep the page lightweight. I don't want a whole bureaucracy around requesting awards and needing people to scrutinise them, or a cumbersome navigation or subpage system (you can choose to reference inline or to create your own subpage). — Bilorv (talk) 20:46, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Question for Minimalist

The bot's addition of the Good Article icon on Dariacore (album) was the article's 51st edit [1]. Does it count? Skyshiftertalk 17:22, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

• I say no ... --evrik ^(talk) 17:40, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
• Ah, bad luck. The text says: fewer than 50 edits in its page history at the time the bot adds the good article icon. To be really precise, "fewer than 50" means "49, 48, 47, ... or 1". Even if the bot edit is then included, it would have to be the 50th or earlier. So I think you're off by one edit! — Bilorv (talk) 18:09, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

  Well, that's unlucky. Thanks for the response! Skyshiftertalk 19:16, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Challenge suggestion

Just found out about this page; looks fun! Here's a topic-specific suggestion:

Triple taxon triumph

Create and/or improve three articles to good article status that are successive taxonomic ranks of each other. For instance:

• species Amanita muscaria, genus Amanita, family Amanitaceae or
• subspecies Ninox novaeseelandiae undulata, species Morepork, genus Ninox

would be examples. Bonus 1: Quartet Taxon Trek (4 in a row) and Taxonomic Pentapath (5 in a row). Esculenta (talk) 16:27, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

• I like it. --evrik ^(talk) 20:32, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
• @Esculenta: interesting! I wonder if there's a pithy one-word name, a noun like "Artist", "Diplomat" or "Explorer". I'd like to see GA status as the bar because I think these articles have a reputation for being possible to create en masse in a very methodical way. (Also I've no idea how many families or higher are yet to be created, or being newly characterised in the literature each year.) Is "successive taxonomic ranks" a clear enough technical description? As I understand it the requirement is that (e.g.) the species must be part of that genus and the genus must be part of that family. — Bilorv (talk) 18:24, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

  The one-word name could be simply "Taxonomist". I agree the article should be GA'd (sorry, the "and/or" wasn't clear in my post, but I meant create if it hasn't been already and then GA). I think "successive taxonomic ranks" is clear (but I'm probably not one to ask). The only possible source of disagreement I can think of is if someone, for example, makes a species/genus/family set, and someone else complains that there's a subgenus (or subfamily, or sub-whatever) that should have been in the sequence. But since this is just for fun, I can't imagine anyone would complain about that(?) You are correct in that the suggested requirement is that the taxa all be related to each other in taxonomic sequence. Esculenta (talk) 18:42, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

  It's about five minutes work to copy/paste one taxonomy article and tweak it to become another; I've done it myself tons to de-orphan lower taxa, so creation alone is definitely too low a bar. If you don't want to mandate GA for all of them (which could be difficult for many taxa), you could maybe say DYK or GA them. The 1500 character DYK requirement presents a little bit more investment versus just creating them.

  As for subtaxa, perhaps we could put a note like "minor ranks are accepted but not required" or "minor taxonomic ranks may be skipped, but major ones may not". ♠PMC♠ (talk) 21:29, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

  I've added it, but I'm still thinking about a bonus—I think it would be most interesting to state a minimum rank. For instance, if they all had to be order or above then that (I think) necessitates a phylum or above. There seem to be about 50 phyla, of which plenty aren't at GA (and I imagine it would be a great success if we could one day say "there's no more left to improve"). Any objections?

  We also need an icon for it. — Bilorv (talk) 20:04, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

  An "order or above" bonus would indeed make for a very difficult challenge, as the higher you go up in taxonomic ranks, the more literature there will be to summarize, and, as you mention, harder to achieve over time as more phyla get GA'd. I like it! Esculenta (talk) 22:41, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

  Added, and I'll be very impressed by anyone who gets it! — Bilorv (talk) 10:27, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Chef

How about a challenge along the lines of "zoo", where the title has to have the name of a food in it? Since 3-course and 4-course meals are pretty typical, it could require 3 (or 4) articles with the name of a food be either created (probably too easy) or improved to DYK/GA standard (whichever you think would be appropriate). The title could be either the actual food or something completely unrelated that contains a food word; e.g. my three could be potato leafhopper, baklava and corn husk doll. MeegsC (talk) 12:48, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

And maybe the bonus could be if all three titles had the same "food": e.g. potato chip, potato leafhopper, Mr. Potato Head. MeegsC (talk) 13:42, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

This reminds me of "Well-dressed", where it was pretty hard to write rules for what a "complete outfit" was. Here the most natural challenge to me is getting a "complete meal" of DYK/GA/creations, but it'd have to be very watered down to get to objective criteria. Another option would be food groups, where it's again not a universal standard. Since we have a large number of challenges already and we could run into the hundreds with identical challenges about 'animals', 'foods' etc., I'm a bit sceptical about this one. It's a good personal challenge but not necessarily one for this increasingly formalised list.

A more experimental idea in case it catches anyone's imagination: create at least four articles containing food words and then make a meal (and upload a photo to Commons) using only those foods. If you create Mr. Bean then you could use baked beans or black beans or any other (one) type of bean in the recipe. — Bilorv (talk) 11:06, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Actually, I wasn't thinking of a "complete meal" at all! Only that some food word should be included in three (or four) article titles. But maybe thats too random? MeegsC (talk) 11:49, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah that's sort of what I mean—why three? Why four? Most of the challenges involving multiple articles have some sense of a "complete set", like "each of the ten Dewey Decimal classes" or "EGOT" or "all the hook positions at DYK". — Bilorv (talk) 17:12, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Hmmm... Maybe call it "Diner" instead then. Because few of us eat more than a 3 or 4 course meal. After all, there are more than 3 animals in a zoo! ;) MeegsC (talk) 18:36, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

What if the challenger picks a dish and has to improve/create the article on that dish, and then 3 (or more) pages with ingredients from it. So if I picked BLT, I could improve Bacon's Rebellion, Lettuce club, and Tomato Kaji. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:00, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Ooooohhh... I like that! MeegsC (talk) 09:06, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah this is a less extreme version of actually making the dish in real life. I've gone with GA as a standard—it's harder to create a new article with a specific word in the title than to find one, in my opinion, and I imagine a lot won't be possible to 5x expand so GA might be the simplest. — Bilorv (talk) 10:27, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Bilorv, I think Premeditated Chaos deserves at the credit for this one. I may have come up with the name, but they came up with the concept! MeegsC (talk) 11:31, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks to you both for the input. I've given Premeditated Chaos the credit on the page. — Bilorv (talk) 14:28, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Aww, thanks :3 ♠PMC♠ (talk) 20:23, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

New idea

Idea for a challenge, @Bilorv:. An article you create is translated into 5+ (10+ for bonus) other languages. First instance of the article must be on enwiki. Only includes articles created after the date of your article. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 02:26, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@PerfectSoundWhatever: I can't believe I didn't come up with this one myself. I've gone with the name "Translation" but I'm happy to take suggestions for anything better. We also need an icon. (I think this is the first bonus I've achieved!) — Bilorv (talk) 13:40, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Awesome, glad you liked it — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 16:03, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Suggestion: "Musician"

Based on the "Showcase" challenge (Create an article for every episode of a television show with at least six episodes), I suggest a similar challenge but for music albums, as follows:

• Create an article for every single of an album with at least three singles.

Skyshiftertalk 20:37, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

I've also thought of a bonus: "Bonus for also creating the album article". (Similarly, "Showcase" could have a bonus for creating the article on the show.) Skyshiftertalk 21:10, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

@Skyshifter: yes, great suggestions! I've added both, but named the music one "Record deal". I have a feeling this might be a little bit easier than Showcase but with the activity of music-related WikiProjects it could be hard to beat others to the punch. There's a lot of directions this idea could go in—every album for an artist, every book by an author, every symphony (etc.) by a musician—all likely to be very difficult, so I might have to be choosy if we get any more related suggestions. — Bilorv (talk) 13:39, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Move to Wikipedia space

I've moved this page from User:Bilorv/Challenges to Wikipedia:Bilorv's Challenges. I'm going to be stepping away from maintaining it, but I've been overjoyed by the way it's taken off. Some of my thoughts on this project are at #Page move. New challenges, big decisions or disagreements should now be resolved by regular old consensus. By all means find a better title without my username in it. At the start I managed to give thanks and barnstars to some particularly impressive winners, which I'd encourage anyone to do ad hoc if they're able. — Bilorv (talk) 18:00, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Question for Minimalist

1. Is it cheating if I copy an article's text into a sandbox, edit it, paste it back into the article, before nominating it for GA status?
2. Do collabs count? TWOrantula^TM (enter the web) 22:07, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

I think it would be cheating, yes. Certainly it's against the spirit of the thing, and if you're not going by the spirit of the thing, what's the point? An already-existing article is going to be harder by default since Minimalist wants less than 50 edits to the article total before it gets GA, not that you have made less than 50 edits to the article before it gets GA. Otherwise that would encourage drive-by nominations inappropriately. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 22:58, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Question for Translation

This article has had seven translations since it was created on 24 July 2023. Five of those translations (Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and French) were created after, while the Spanish translation was created a month prior, and the Simple English edition was made by myself. Does it count? Thanks, TWOrantula^TM (enter the web) 22:25, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Translation asks you to "Create an article on the English Wikipedia that does not exist in any other language edition", which is later translated. Only Up! does not count, because the Spanish version existed before the English one did. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:01, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Textbook example bonus?

How about to FA? Seems to work with both regards of "textbook example". ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:51, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Question for the entire challenge

Just asking, for page creation and other things required to create, can you still add them even if they were created before I joined the challenges? 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 10:37, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

As long as you created them. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 17:19, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

@TheNuggeteer: Yes, anything you personally created is fair game. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:53, 23 September 2024 (UTC)