Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Royal Naval Division War Memorial/archive1
The Royal Naval Division Memorial is a First World War memorial located on Horse Guards Parade in London, dedicated to the 63rd (Royal Naval) Division. Sir Edwin Lutyens designed the memorial as an obelisk in the form of a fountain. The base includes an excerpt from the poem III: The Dead by Rupert Brooke, who died while serving with the division. The memorial was unveiled by the division's first commanding officer Major-General Sir Archibald Paris on 25 April 1925, the tenth anniversary of the division's participation in the Gallipoli landings. The division's creator Winston Churchill gave a speech praising Lutyens' design and the division's record of distinguished service. The memorial was dismantled in 1939 and re-erected in 1951 at the Royal Naval College, Greenwich. Following a campaign, the memorial was restored and unveiled at its original location in 2003. Upgraded to grade II* listed building status in 2015, the memorial forms part of a national collection of Lutyens' war memorials. (Full article...)
Carcharoth and HJ Mitchell: Are you guys interested in doing this one? It's from May 2018. - Dank (push to talk) 15:12, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
- I got it down to 1014 characters and added an image (which may need reviewing). The last sentence could be shortened to just say it is a listed building. Carcharoth (talk) 16:51, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
- Looks great, thanks. I'll check links now. - Dank (push to talk) 17:15, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
- @Dank and Carcharoth: Perhaps this is my failure in writing the lead, but I think the blurb misses the significance of the memorial. Granted, the back story is a little complicated and the peculiarity of the RND is largely out of scope for the article, never mind a micro-summary like a TFA blurb, but I feel, but we could make more of the famous names associated with it. The chairman of the committee, Arthur Asquith was the prime minister's son; the division was the brainchild of one Winston Churchill (already a household name by this point and later famously the prime minister during WWII); Rupert Brooke's poem wasn't chosen at random—Brooke died en route to Gallipoli with the RND. And that's all ignoring it being designed by the most eminent architect of the day. I feel we should entice the reader with some of these titbits so they click through and want to read the whole article. Also, it's well worth including a mention of Gallipoli because that campaign holds strong emotional pull for certain parts of Britain and especially for Aussies and Kiwis. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:18, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
- That all makes sense, but the blurb is currently at 1022 characters, and 1025 is the max ... if you and Carcharoth can agree on what to take out, you're welcome to add anything you like. - Dank (push to talk) 20:22, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
- I was working from the article lead and editing that down. To have the TFA blurb take a different angle on things may need a rewrite from scratch. The obvious thing to drop would be the removal and reinstating of the memorial, and shorten other bits. The way to do it would probably be to present the memorial and its history through the lens of the RND (its creation, its service in Gallipoli and elsewhere [bringing in Brooke], and the RND figures that helped create the memorial). Churchill is already mentioned as the division's creator, but that could be emphasised more. Lutyens is already mentioned - how did the TFA blurbs for the other Lutyens memorials treat this? Did they do more than just name him? I'm not going to be able to draft anything immediately, so will wait and see what is suggested. Carcharoth (talk) 01:38, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
- Here are a few (they link to the blurbs on the talk page): Devon County War Memorial, Lancashire Fusiliers War Memorial, Manchester Cenotaph, Northampton War Memorial, Norwich War Memorial, Rochdale Cenotaph. - Dank (push to talk) 02:15, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks, that helps. Some obvious things to incorporate from those. I'll make a start. The blurb will get longer before it gets shorter again! Carcharoth (talk) 10:59, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
- Update: have made these changes. Not entirely happy with that, but it is right on the character limit, and may be OK. Please edit as needed. Carcharoth (talk) 12:02, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks, that helps. Some obvious things to incorporate from those. I'll make a start. The blurb will get longer before it gets shorter again! Carcharoth (talk) 10:59, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
- Here are a few (they link to the blurbs on the talk page): Devon County War Memorial, Lancashire Fusiliers War Memorial, Manchester Cenotaph, Northampton War Memorial, Norwich War Memorial, Rochdale Cenotaph. - Dank (push to talk) 02:15, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
- @Dank and Carcharoth: Perhaps this is my failure in writing the lead, but I think the blurb misses the significance of the memorial. Granted, the back story is a little complicated and the peculiarity of the RND is largely out of scope for the article, never mind a micro-summary like a TFA blurb, but I feel, but we could make more of the famous names associated with it. The chairman of the committee, Arthur Asquith was the prime minister's son; the division was the brainchild of one Winston Churchill (already a household name by this point and later famously the prime minister during WWII); Rupert Brooke's poem wasn't chosen at random—Brooke died en route to Gallipoli with the RND. And that's all ignoring it being designed by the most eminent architect of the day. I feel we should entice the reader with some of these titbits so they click through and want to read the whole article. Also, it's well worth including a mention of Gallipoli because that campaign holds strong emotional pull for certain parts of Britain and especially for Aussies and Kiwis. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:18, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
- Looks great, thanks. I'll check links now. - Dank (push to talk) 17:15, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
It's 1043, including (Full article...). - Dank (push to talk) 13:50, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
- Got it down to 1024. Carcharoth (talk) 14:53, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
- @Dank and Carcharoth: I like this a lot more than the first version. Thank you very much, both of you, for working on it, and apologies for my absence. Btw, if there's no competition for 25 April or surrounding dates, I wouldn't mind this running on that date, or we could wait five years for its centenary. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:56, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks kindly, Harry. Pinging Gog ... any thoughts? - Dank (push to talk) 18:02, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
- @Dank and Carcharoth: I like this a lot more than the first version. Thank you very much, both of you, for working on it, and apologies for my absence. Btw, if there's no competition for 25 April or surrounding dates, I wouldn't mind this running on that date, or we could wait five years for its centenary. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:56, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
- @Dank: Not one I have seen before. The current version looks spot on to me. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:36, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
- Great. Harry, I'm technically on a sabbatical from TFA, but I don't suppose it violates the sabbatical to say: feel free to add this to WP:TFAP for 25 April or any other date. If you suspect it will have competition, then run it through WP:TFAR. - Dank (push to talk) 18:51, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
- @Dank: Not one I have seen before. The current version looks spot on to me. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:36, 27 February 2020 (UTC)