Wikipedia talk:Getting to Philosophy/Archive 1
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Archive 1 |
I didn't edit the main page, because I'm not sure how you post original research on 'non article' pages. The article states that "Language leads to a loop." As of 7FEB2012, it leads into philosophy just like the other major branches. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.161.76.46 (talk) 16:52, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Obsolete discussions: This is now a project article, not a game.
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This is now an encyclopedia article, not a game.
Because of ongoing vandalism of other pages by those trying to cheat at the game, ths game has been deleted, and this is now a purely informational encyclopedia article, not a game. Guy Macon (talk) 01:46, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
- Actually, it is not an encyclopedia article, it is a "project" page. Or, in Wiki-speak, it is in the Wikipedia namespace, not the main namespace. It definitely would not be an appropriate article. I am not sure it belongs anywhere. If it said something interesting or noteworthy about Wikipedia, it could stay where it is (and maybe be labeled an essay?) I don't think it really does. I would probably support deletion if someone proposed it. In the meantime, I think the title "Get to Philosophy" needs to be changed. It fit when this was a "game" page, as the title sort of "told" people to play the game, and/or it was the name of the game. Now that there's no more game (which is a good thing), maybe "Getting to Philosophy" would be better. Any comments? Neutron (talk) 03:30, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
- I have gone ahead and done the renaming. I also have tagged this as an essay and have eliminated the last vestiges of the "game" from the page. If anyone still wants to do an XfD on this, I would support it as I don't think it adds anything to the project, but if it remains in its current state, I think that is ok too. Through the succession of edits by others and then by me, the page has been rendered "mostly harmless." Neutron (talk) 20:17, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sorry I was late commenting on the above. Your renaming is a definite improvement. Good work! --Guy Macon (talk) 00:34, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
- I have gone ahead and done the renaming. I also have tagged this as an essay and have eliminated the last vestiges of the "game" from the page. If anyone still wants to do an XfD on this, I would support it as I don't think it adds anything to the project, but if it remains in its current state, I think that is ok too. Through the succession of edits by others and then by me, the page has been rendered "mostly harmless." Neutron (talk) 20:17, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
Why? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.132.144.25 (talk) 04:18, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
Getting to Old Norse
If one uses these rules:
1. Find the first link (excluding those in brackets) of the first section (other than the 'introduction') of the page and click on it. 2. If such a link does not exist, find the very first link on the page. 3. Repeat.
a lot of articles lead to the article Old Norse (which leads to Old Norwegian and back).
e.g. Philosophy to Metaphysics to Greek language to Balkans to Adriatic Sea to Latin to Corpus Inscriptionum Latinarum to Roman Empire to Roman Senate to Roman Kingdom to Roman Republic to Senate of the Roman Republic to Mos maiorum to Pater familias to Social unit to Human to Middle English to Ormulum to... Old Norse — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.22.8.106 (talk) 06:28, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
I got Economic_sector to create a two article loop with Primary_sector_of_the_economy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.151.134.18 (talk) 01:37, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
I got Structure and Building 217.83.214.197 (talk) 18:58, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
I got Billy Joel and Piano Man (song) Killorf (talk) 20:01, 24 April 2017 (UTC) I got Malware and Computer Virus — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.67.192.234 (talk) 03:21, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
I got allergy and hypersensitivity — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abhinavprasad1996 (talk • contribs) 15:00, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
I got Hyman Amberg and Joseph C. Amberg --Tragedyorcomedy (talk) 00:35, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
I got cinematography and film --Adam Aleksic 1:18, 25 September 2019
I got Theory of language and Theoretical linguistics — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.112.246.69 (talk) 12:47, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
This no longer works
Most pages now go to fact, which then loops from fact->proof (truth)->evidence->truth->fact. 66.240.14.5 (talk) 22:08, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
- Or between fact and reason. Alphius (talk) 15:39, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
- It appears perhaps editors are trying to 'break' this phenomenon (game?). I find it curious that in logical terms, a 'fact' isn't supposed to prove itself in a self fulfilling loop. Thus, the article 'fact' is being explained via a logical fallacy. 76.14.240.12 (talk) 09:03, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
Fact now leads to Philosophy, just the loop is a bit longer now: fact -> proof (truth) -> necessity and sufficiency -> logic -> reason -> consciousness -> subjectivity -> subject (philosophy) -> philosophy BlueRoll18 (talk) 02:35, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
- Logic and Reason now loop between one another. 199.2.205.142 (talk) 22:13, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
And now there is a loop between knowledge, fact, and experience, which cuts off many chains. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.156.140.3 (talk) 18:43, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Now it is impossible to get to philosophy from science or knowledge because these lead to reality which is a 1 page loop with existence. 209.119.30.138 (talk) 22:32, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
As of now, this seems to work better with leading to science - as chains leading to philosophy eventually lead to science, while science itself is an ending loop. 67.175.136.130 (talk) 03:16, 20 April 2018 (UTC)_Roselia
I fixed it so it does wok now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Novascore (talk • contribs) 23:00, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
Mathematics now loops back to mathematics, please fix! Sbcloatitr (talk) 02:37, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
- Loops are not something that need to be fixed! Changes to an article should be done for encyclopedic reasons only. Editing for any other reason is prohibited, and could result in an editor losing their editing privileges. Paul August ☎ 15:37, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
Looking for Source of Behavior
I'm just wondering if anyone has researched the source of this phenomenon. It occurs to me that if either the guidelines or an extension suggest which words to link to in Wikipedia, then the same words are getting suggested over and over again and thus, the same articles are getting linked. Is that possible? Is anyone else even curious about codifying this phenomenon? --Tedmasterwebify (talk) 13:17, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
It should be mentioned it's not actually Philosophy but Knowledge
All (or most) of the articles that leads to philosophy actually leads first to Knowledge.
People are just talking about philosophy because it shines better. but just as much, one may go further to get into reality.
itay 79.181.209.14 (talk) 15:39, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
- If this is the case, then at the moment it's broken, and instead there's the loop Linguistics - Science - Knowledge - Fact - Proof (truth) - Necessity and sufficiency - Logic - Reason - Consciousness - Sentience - Feeling - Nominalization - Linguistics. This loop seems likely to capture a lot of articles. 94.194.66.92 (talk) 03:48, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
Actually, knowlege never leads to philosphy. It goes Knowledge, fact, evidence, logical assertion, mathmatical logic, mathematics, space, physical body, physics, natural science, scinece, and back to knowledge. Knowledge is a closed loop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.67.192.234 (talk) 03:29, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
Disputing statement
"As of 9/28/2013, this very article reaches philosophy, following this 27 links path: "Link", "Chain", "Hoist (device)", "Pneumatically", "Pressurized gas", "Fluid", "Physics", "Natural science", "Science", "Knowledge", "Fact", "Proof (truth)", "Necessity and sufficiency", "Logic", and finally: "Philosophy"."
Trying it on 30/09/2013, I get into a loop Physics -> Greek language -> Indo-European Languages -> Language -> Human -> Primate -> Mammal -> Clade -> Ancient Greek -> Greek language
A site that graphs a user-chosen article to Philosophy.
Pretty cool site.
--Kabahaly (talk) 15:41, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Already there at the first external link Theemathas (talk) 06:43, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
Longest chain I have seen so far was 55 links in between the chosen article and wikipedia, article was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H_R_Geiger. Has anyone found anything longer than this? NascentSpace (talk) 02:18, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
A mere observation.
I think the people who first saw this had it wrong. As pointed out most articles link first to knowledge then to philosophy. Take for example the philosophy page itself. If you follow the links on philosophy you get a loop back to philosophy. I think the phenomena here is not that all pages link to philosophy but indeed that all pages link to this ring of pages, this loop that you get in which philosophy and knowledge are just two nodes. A path taken from an article outside this ring eventually ends up inside the ring and hence will eventually end up at philosophy.
I could be wrong though, I haven't tested this hypothesis. I imagine that there might be multiple such rings and perhaps philosophy is the common node. At the time of writing this the ring, starting from philosophy was: philosophy > reality > existence > world > human > Hominini > Tribe (biology) > biology > Natural science > science > Knowledge > Fact > Proof (truth) > Necessity and sufficiency > Logic > Mathematics > Quantity > Property > Modern Philosophy > Philosophy. It's clear that if you started at any point in this loop you would just end up back at the same point.
- The current loop (7 May 2014) is Philosophy>>Reality>>Existence>>World>>Human>>Hominini>>Tribe (biology)>>Biology>>Natural Science>>Science>>Knowledge>>Fact>>Proof (truth)>>Necessity and sufficiency>>Logic>>Philosophy
- Any page either is an outlying chain to a loop, part of a loop or a dead end leading to a redlink/non existant page or with no links. This loop is the central loop in that most pages are outliers to this loop (something like 94% at last count. It appeals to the quirky nature of humans that the loop contains Logic, Reality, Existence, Philosophy, World, Human, Fact, Knowledge, Natural science. Many people see these as the centre of things. SPACKlickI (talk) 11:41, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
- The Loop has now become Philosophy --> Reality --> Existence --> Awareness --> Consciousness --> Quality (philosophy) --> Philosophy -->....
- The vast majority of outliers to this loop attach at Consciousness and the majority of them come down the following branch
- Set (mathematics) --> Mathematics --> Quantity --> Property (philosophy) --> Logic --> Reason --> Consciousness -->....
- In fact, by firing off random articles, other than 1 or 2 going straight to Maths without Set, I found no other branches on the primary loop. It would be interesting to see the major nodes on this tree. SPACKlick (talk) 14:07, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
- Philosopher links directly to philosophy, and is another branch on the main loop. Plato is the only article I found linking to philosopher, but I would guess there exist extensive branches in that direction. Non-user, 22.08.14.
It's broken now
Since this edit, the rule no longer holds for a large number of pages. πr2 (t • c) 04:32, 6 December 2015 (UTC) [P.S. I just noticed it is still a loop without that link. I guess it's been broken for a while.]
Contradiction in description of method.
(As the article stands today) the opening sentence describes "Clicking on the first lowercase link...", but the Method Summarized section describes "Clicking on the first non-parenthesized, non-italicized link." Which is it? Since Clicking is capitalized in this case, it is excluded by the first method but included by the second method. --Theodore Kloba (talk) 16:40, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
- I've always known it as clicking on the first non-parenthesised link. I think the introduction should be a summary of the full method. I'll delete “lowercase”. —ajf (talk) 16:29, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
I have tried this on about 8 pages, and they all lead me to knowledge, not philosophy – Nixinova ❰T|C❱ 01:43, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
- I even tried it with this one. In order:
- Point and click, User (computing), Computer, Computer programming, Computing, Mathematics, Ancient Greek, Greek language, Modern Green, Collogualism, Word, Linguistics, Science, Knowledge. Knowledge then loops through fact, experience, and then knowledge again. – Nixinova ❰T|C❱ 02:01, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
- Also on the main page it says that Quantity goes to property but that link has since been removed – Nixinova ❰T|C❱ 02:03, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
- There seems to be an edit war going on removing the link to awareness in the first sentence of the knowledge page, which was a route many pages took to philosophy. I won't name names, don't want to be accused of harassment.173.168.128.136 (talk) 18:43, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
Broken description
The "getting to philosophy" example leads to Mathematics -> Quantity -> Counting -> Finite set -> Mathematics -> etc. DmitryKsWikis (Dmitry K.) (talk) 08:52, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
- This is an intersting one, because I just played around with this one - if you start with Mathematics, you'll always end up back at Mathematics, even when you apply a rule where you follow the second or third link in an article when you hit a loop. Basically, any article that leads to 'Mathematics' follows a "Getting to 'Mathematics'" rather than "Getting to 'Philosophy'" rule as of this writing. Peter G Werner (talk) 22:01, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
Under attack
I just wanted to make aware the users interested in this kind of project that WP:GTP is under heavy attack either by IDs and users. I found many page links repetitively deleted or changed so that more loops are created and the link chain won't make it to Philosophy. I restored something like three links today but I think more effective action should be taken, maybe protecting the pages from edits by non-autoconfirmed users. ᚪᛋᚦᚩᚾᛏ (Asþont) 📯 23:32, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
- Adding or removing links to articles should be based upon WP:LINK. They should not be based upon whether of not link chains "make it to Philosophy". Paul August ☎ 00:23, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
- @Paul August Actually, we ARE NOT adding NEW links to make a path to Philosophy, trolling dickheads like YOU are purposely REMOVING links (I'm talking about you, "awareness" on the "knowledge" page.) for the sole purpose of ruining this phenomenon. All we are doing is reverting the attempts to sabotage the whole thing. The links we are adding were already there previously, but trolls like you decide to remove them just because you want the world to burn. NUTT Daddy OwO (talk) 00:15, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
What is the percentage now?
I just made [1] this edit. Lots or articles link to knowledge which eventually leads to verification. I then tried that and then... it looped back to itself. That means I unintentionally mass broke lots of chains. KNOCKXX 11:39, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
Loop and length
Out of curiosity, by running Xefer on idle for a while, I found out that as of today Sand fence loops with Snow fence, and Athletic supporter is 62 steps away from Philosphy, the furthest distance I found. Does anyone know of any articles further away? it would be interesting to find the maximum boundary of this effect. Caelus5 (talk) 02:29, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
Mathematics Loop
This page takes you to Mathematics, which is currently a loop, so, ironically, you cannot "get to philosophy" from here... Kitoba (talk) 19:37, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
- All pages lead to Mathematics. Philosophy->Education->Learning->Knowledge->Fact->Evidence->Logical Assertion->Mathematical logic->Mathematics->Quantity->Counting->Element (mathematics)->Mathematics Nerd368 (talk) 22:45, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
Who else is getting stuck on the Mathematics/Quantity loop?
It seems like any biography or country doesn't work now because it leads to country --> ... --> mathematics
Runninggeek (talk) 21:47, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
- @Runninggeek: Why does this matter? Paul August ☎ 21:59, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
Origin
I just fixed a loop that didnt end in philosophy. and here is the key. whether consciously, as i just did, or unconsciously, the links lead to Philosophy because we WANT them to. we want people to see links to terms in the lede that help wiht comprehension of the topic, and we tend to link complex terms rather than "it" or "person" or "thing" so much. its an art, what possibly common terms you choose to link. we could link every word to another article or wiktionary. we dont. and our choices, as editors, tend towards philosophy, which makes sense for US, because we ARE philosophers, lovers of knowledge. if we were primarily engineers, we would have a different slant. if we were mathematicians, again, a different slant. if we were mostly poets, again, very different. the hyperlinks are to a certain degree a map of the brains and consciousnesses of the editors, us. nice to know we love knowledge so much.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 20:17, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
- Loops aren't something that need "fixing". Paul August ☎ 20:24, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
This needs updating
Getting to Philosophy is basically Getting to Mathematics now. I just told somebody about this phenomenon, and it turned out to be wrong. Almost nothing leads to philosophy anymore, because the main loop seems to have turned into a loop that ends up at Mathematics — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.229.24.25 (talk) 18:03, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
You can still get to Philosophy, but you have to do it right
Everyone keeps saying that the game does not work, or that it needs editing. For the record, the game does work, but you must do it properly. You must click on the first link in the text body that is not italicized or (inside parentheses), else you'll get in a loop in Language or Mathematics almost every time and never reach Philosophy. However, if you click the right links, you'll reach Philosophy fairly easily on most any page. Doctor Whooves (talk) 21:13, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
Update: The page "Fact" now links first to "Reality" instead of "Evidence", which gets into a loop of Reality>Existence>Reality. Many pages now seem to get stuck in this loop, so it's somewhat harder to find a page now that links to Philosophy. Doctor Whooves (talk) 13:53, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
- Mathematics does loop. Mathematics > Quantity > Multitude which redirects to Counting > Element (mathematics) > Mathematics. Pjcronje (talk) 11:16, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
Broken a lot
This doesn't work a lot of the time, as this is a wiki after all. Is this page needed? (It currently doesn't work) Nixinova T C 02:07, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
It's no longer valid
Now, all roads lead to the existence/reality loop. Actually, they lead to fact, which links to reality which links to existence which loops back to reality. This has effectively ended the phenomenon. It seems someone has resorted to using a logical fallacy (circular definition) in order to disrupt the chain for reasons that escape me. Full disclosure: I attempted to restore the link-to-philosophy chain, but it was immediately changed back. Admittedly, not in keeping with the spirit of Wikipedia, but purposely altering it by creating loops out of links that aren't valid isn't, either. Sh.zurawsky (talk) 03:23, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
- Agree, links should be created or removed solely for encyclopedic reasons, not because they either do or don't foster "getting to philosophy". Paul August ☎ 08:59, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
Requested move 5 October 2018
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: not moved (page mover nac) Flooded with them hundreds 15:23, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Getting to Philosophy → Wikipedia:Getting to Existence – Most pages now lead to the Existence/Reality loop instead of Reality going to Object of the mind CreeperSlimePig (talk) 14:38, 5 October 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Iffy★Chat -- 09:05, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- This will have to be tested out by many editors, doing about 20 loop-trips. Will be back at some point, but just want to point out that 'Getting to Existence' is a good definition of 'Getting to Philosophy', or visa versa. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:29, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose I tested a bit and I still usually got to Philosophy. While this isn't an article, WP:RS also describe only Philosophy and people know it as such. If that has indeed been the case some material could be added on it rather than moving the page away. Galobtter (pingó mió) 13:35, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
New Loops?
What I find interesting is that now I can't find any Existence/Reality loops as described by past users, and I've only found one loop that leads to Philosophy. At least now, the vast majority of loops turn into a Knowledge>Descriptive Knowledge loop. It seems that that words all articles loop into change every few years. SushiGod (talk) 18:54, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Also found this, which is weird, because a few days ago it did work. We have reached the end. שוקו מוקה (talk) 13:53, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
English wikipedia
I tried this on simple English Wikipedia and German Wikipedia. On both, I got loops that never got to philosophy (even though the German text of a town got to knowledge, Wissenchaft, Fach, and such. So, I changed the text to be clear that it is not about Wikipedia, but about English Wikipedia. Has it been tested on other Wikipedias?Kdammers (talk) 12:23, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Kdammers: Yes. See the last link in the external links section for an investigation of this in six languages. Granted, the cycling is not always stable, given that it can be disrupted by rewriting a few leads, but that study seemed to indicate that there are loops in most languages, even if they don't route through Philosophy. Vahurzpu (talk) 15:37, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
Category game: Getting to "Category:Cognition"
An interesting variation - if you go to the "Category:" listing of a given article and click on the first category, and then the first category for that "Category:" page, and so on, quite a few pages will take you back to "Category:Cognition", which loops back to fairly quickly. Peter G Werner (talk) 22:28, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
Logic
Using https://www.xefer.com/wikipedia i got to the knowledge that alot of things (most) go to logic
bruh momento everywhere — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.81.132.165 (talk) 22:05, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |