Wikipedia talk:List of infoboxes/Proposed/Infobox clinical phobias

Creation

After the previous attemps to create a template on phobias failed (second-latest, latest), I've thought that the best way to deal with the problem is an infobox. This would be a modified version of the existing template:Infobox Disease, with added fields for the phobias. The fields of the disease infobox are needed since some articles incorporate them already.

Most fields are pretty self-explanatory, but I'll explain them anyway, from top to bottom. Naturally, the exact format I'm proposing is very debatable.

• The image field (and implicitly, caption field) is not necessary; I just included it because arachnophobia has an image. A possible use for it could be displaying the greatest fear of people who have that phobia. (My original idea was putting a picture of a crowd in agoraphobia but a better --and already existing-- example can be found in Hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia. However, I'm not sure that phobia is "clinically recognized")
• The "Latinicised" (alternatively, "Romaized") name field shows the one-word name ending in -phobia given to that phobia. Particularly useful when it's not in the article name, or when several such names exist.
• The "fear of" field is the converse of the "Latinicised name" field. Where the latter shows the name ending in -phobia, the former has more or less what that word means. It doesn't have to be a literal translation, as the article text already does that. For example, trypanophobia could have "fear of injections" here. Again, particularly useful when the article name is latinicised, and the reader may need to scroll into one of the subtitles to
• Category is either social, specific, or agoraphobia (per Phobia#Clinical phobias. If possible, the infobox should put the page in the respective category (eg: Phobias>Clinically recognized phobias>Social phobias). If not, all articles with this infobox would be put simply in "Clinically recognized phobias", per GRBerry's suggestion in second-latest|tfd
• Type is an optional field for the case of a specific phobia (since social phobias don't seem to be sub-divided). It would be either animal, natural environment, situational, blood/injection/injury, or other (per Specific phobia#Categories of specific phobias).
• "Hypothesized evolution relation", another optional field. This is for the cases of nycto, acro, arachno, ophidio, Ailuro, auto, and claustrophobia per Specific phobia#Phobias and evolution.
• List of phobias: hopefully will prevent the creation of a new navbox by linking straight to Wikipedia's list of phobias, each of which is accompanied by what it means. If a reader wants to look for "fear of cats", and is on the "fear of the dark" page, let them click "list of phobias", then do a ctrl+F search for "cats".
• Finally, "Classification as a disease and external resources", a title that appears if any of the fields of the disease template were used. We'll need all of them just in case (although I know that currently the phobias articles that use them only use ICD-10 and ICD-9, who's saying that, for instance, eMedicine can't decide to put up a page on that phobia, and an editor wants to link to it?

--Once in a Blue Moon (talk) 23:51, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Duplicate of Template:Infobox Disease?

Hi, I would agree an infobox template (vs a navigation template) seems more sensible. I've reworked your submission at Wikipedia:List of infoboxes/Proposed to use the new sub-page system (Wikipedia:List of infoboxes/Proposed/Infobox clinical phobias). This effectively allows a real try-out of the template as it is developed (effectively a sandbox) with all history, sub-paged /doc explanation and discussion threads then preserved on making the infobox live (when moved into real template space).

I would agree with your observation of needing existing Template:Infobox Disease parameters. However rather than create a somewhat duplicated template with additional phobia-parameters, I wonder if it would be best to use existing Infobox Disease template and allow for optional additional phobia parameters ?

I'll come back on Wikipedia talk:List of infoboxes/Proposed/Infobox clinical phobias re parameter names, features being suggested etc etc in a couple of days (after real-life commitments) David Ruben ^Talk 04:02, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I thought of that, but I also thought the usage instructions for that infobox would become excesively long and complicated (which I think they already are) and that would actually discourage its use, which would be contrary to the whole point. Alternatively, we could try to put one infobox under the other on all applicable pages, but it is never certain that this will work apropriately.

I've moved this to the discussion of the template itself. It's not that I don't appreciate you telling me on my talk page about this (as I wasn't planning to come back to this proposal for another month or so), but I just think it's best if we have this discussion in a place where more people will be able to read and interject on it. Hope you don't mind.

--Once in a Blue Moon (talk) 17:51, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

True & fair points, but having helped Template:Drugbox become able to cope with 3 very distinct groups of drugs, I do not think, IMHO, it would be that complex.

On reflection though, in constructing encyclopaedic articles, are phobias best considered as diseases or symptoms of a particular past experience - i.e. is this proposed infobox best considered for merging with Template:Drugbox or Template:Infobox Symptom ? As an example Agrophobia would suggest the disease is anxiety disorder and the symptom or specifics is of issues with outside spaces (to over simplify). I ask this now (and I am a doctor myself) as this is likely to be contested eitherway, unless an explanatory rational has already been prepared...

Anyway this can be put on hold, whilst first is considered the parameters currently being suggested. David Ruben ^Talk 21:15, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree that phobias seem more like symptoms. However, taking Claustrophobia as a random example, its ICD-9 number is 300.29, which according to List of ICD-9 codes, puts it under "mental disorders", and disorders are closer to being diseases than they are to being symptoms. And I think whatever decision we take on this, it should be in accordance to established standards and organizations, so as to not be too challengable.

--Once in a Blue Moon (talk) 22:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Agree (well stated). David Ruben ^Talk 03:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. It's been a while since anybody has told me that.--Once in a Blue Moon (talk) 17:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Selection of parameters

Clinically recognized phobia
Claustrophobes have a great fear of being locked up in small places such as elevators or closets
Latinicised name	Claustrophobia
Fear of	enclosed spaces
Category	Specific phobia
Type	Situational type
Hypothesized evolution relation	Fight-or-flight response
L i s t   o f   p h o b i a s
Classification as a disease and external resources
ICD-10	F40.2
ICD-9	300.29

How should each parameter be named (as distinct from the label heading displayed for each one) and what selection of values is to be offered/proposed. I list the current parameter list and examples value shown at Wikipedia:List_of_infoboxes/Proposed/Infobox_clinical_phobias. David Ruben ^Talk 21:15, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

"Latinicised name" Claustrophobia

• This is presumably going to be (?always?) the name of the article. In keeping with Template:Infobox Disease the parameter name should be "Name".
• Are all phobias named after the latin, or are some not named for the Greek ? David Ruben ^Talk 21:15, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The word "phobia" itself is greek, but sometimes the prefix is latin (as is the case for claustrophobia). I just went headfirst for "Latinicized" because I didn't think "Greekifyed" was a word (that, and it sounded too much like geeky and I didn't want to offend the Greeks, given that a childhood friend of mine was greek and repeatedly made fun of me for not knowing the greek alphabet). And to say "Greek name" or "Latin name", we'd have to be sure that the name given is actually used in Greece or ancient Rome. As I said before, the name is very debatable, but I couldn't really think of a better alternative. However, taking a page from taxonomists' book, we could put "Scientific name"... if that's correct. As for having it always being the name of the article, this is not the case for many. Fear of the dark and Blood phobia to name a couple.

--Once in a Blue Moon (talk) 22:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

OK. So "Scientific name" or "Medical name" then (my weak preference is for the latter).David Ruben ^Talk 03:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

"Fear of" enclosed spaces

• No problem this parameter, but what to call it - "Fear_of", "Object" or "Target" ? David Ruben ^Talk 21:15, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Originally, I was going to have it be "'Meaning:' Fear of enclosed spaces', but thought it was unclear, specially with me saying in the proposal that translations should remain in the article text rather than being put here. That said, the parameter could be called "meaning".

--Once in a Blue Moon (talk) 22:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Agree with your originally not labelling it "Meaning:", but I also don't think that would be a good choice of parameter name either, other suggestions more self-explanatory to the lay readership. David Ruben ^Talk 03:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

The discussion on category below seems to solve it, but it leaves me wondering if it won't be missed in social phobias' pages, since most (if not all) of those are also specific to a certain situation. On the other hand, the examples I gave of social phobias start of saying what those people fear.

--Once in a Blue Moon (talk) 17:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

"Category" Specific phobia

• I don't understand what this field is for or what other values it might take - aren't all phobias specific on a target (the exception perhaps being generalised anxiety disorder and paranoia) ? David Ruben ^Talk 21:15, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Glossophobia and Agoraphobia are Social phobias, and this (Social phobia) is perhaps the only other value it may take despite the article on phobias saying Agoraphobia is a category unto its own (The Social phobia article says Agoraphobia is a social phobia).

--Once in a Blue Moon (talk) 22:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah, understand scope of this. If only the two possible values, then template should specific only values of "social" or "specific" be given and the template can auto-link to correct article.

Indeed could define the linked label of the preceeding parameter, particularly as it is only the specific phobias that have a category and Social phobias presumably have no further subdivision (as given by the next parameter). Hence displays of "Specific phobia of:<fear_of>" or "Social phobia of:<fear_of>"David Ruben ^Talk 03:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I didn't know that sort of thing could be done, and indeed don't understand the markup you used below. That is why I proposed it as a field which could take any value.

--Once in a Blue Moon (talk) 17:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

"Type" Situational type

• Again, please explain what this is addressing and range of values that it might take. David Ruben ^Talk 21:15, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

As stated above, the possible values are "animal, natural environment, situational, blood/injection/injury, or other (per Specific phobia#Categories of specific phobias)."

--Once in a Blue Moon (talk) 22:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

(an anon editor just deleted it "Categories of specific phobias" section in that article - I've reverted to restore that section).

Perhaps this parameter then should be named "Category" (given that is what the label will wikilink to) rather than "type"; and then call the previous specific/social distinguishing parameter as "Type" instead.

I presume in Social phobias this parameter is not specified ? David Ruben ^Talk 03:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

The problem with calling it category is that we'd then have two parameters named "category". Perhaps calling it subcategory? Though I don't know if what you said above in "category" eliminates the need for naming it entirely. And, no. There doesn't seem to be a subdivision of social phobias, except for the general social anxiety disorder and Agoraphobia, which appear to be sub-categories of social phobias, each onto their own.

--Once in a Blue Moon (talk) 17:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

"Hypothesized evolution relation" Fight-or-flight response

• I think I can guess at possible scope of this, but "Hypothesized evolution relation" seems awkward (as well as being a long parameter label) - would "Precipiting cause", or "Underlying etiology" be more helpful ? David Ruben ^Talk 21:15, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The thing is that we can't be sure this is the true reason this phobia exists: There may be others (such as the theory that a psychological trauma during the person's youth can trigger phobias, eg a person could be excessivley afraid of being alone because they once got lost in a building and ended up being locked in, rather than because of the safety in numbers instinct). Not all phobias have one of these, and at the moment only the 7 mentioned in Specific phobia#Phobias and evolution would use this parameter.

--Once in a Blue Moon (talk) 22:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for providing the source article on this. If just 7 cases that might use this entry out of some 75 articles listed in Category:Phobias, I don't think this is going to be a useful parameter to be used across the range of target articles.David Ruben ^Talk 03:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

That, and what is said below about it being inapropriate. It is probably better sorted if included in each of those the articles' texts, or a Wikipedia Category.

--Once in a Blue Moon (talk) 17:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Conclusions ?

So in summary perhaps just 4 parameters to cover "Scientific name" or "Medical name", "Fear_of" (or some better phrase), "Type" & "Category".

However, if I am correct in understanding that no sub-categorisation exists for social-phobias, then the infobox can be coded by just 3 parameters: "name", "target" and "category"; where "category" is set either to the specially recognised value of "Social" for social phobia or else it defines the category of specific phobias.

Finally an option, to help clarify inclusion into Template:Infobox Disease, might be to name them with "Phobia" prefixes, hence: "Phobia_name", "Phobia_target", "Phobia_category" ?

Once in a Blue Moon, your sensibly thoughtout proposal and clear replies above mean that, if minor points can be agreed, then proposal can be ready to go live quickly - I'll post a heads up at WP:MED and Template:Infobox Disease for interested parties. David Ruben ^Talk 03:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Coding proposed therefore as below (initial #if to each of 3 parameters hides section if no Phobia_name defined, i.e. a non-phobia disease article. The #ifeq hides the category entry if 'Social' as no categorisation of this type/class of phobias.):

... image & caption parameter inclusion as per [[Template:Infobox Disease]]

{{#if: {{{Phobia_name|}}} |
! [[-phob-|Name]]
{{!}}{{{Phobia_name|}}} }}
|-
{{#if: {{{Phobia_name|}}} |
!{{#ifeq: {{{Phobia_Category|}}} | Social | [[Social phobia]] | [[Specific phobia]] }} of
{{!}} {{{Phobia_target|}}} }}
|-
{{#if: {{{Phobia_name|}}} |
!{{#ifeq: {{{Phobia_Category|}}} | Social | | '''[[Specific_phobia#Categories_of_specific_phobias|Category]]'''
{{!}} {{{Phobia_Category|}}} }}
!-

... coding & link details as per current [[Template:Infobox Disease]]
!colspan=2|''Classification & external resources''

David Ruben ^Talk 04:03, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

See Template talk:Infobox Disease#Phobias, seems explanations and proposed causes are not thought appropriate for an infobox. I'll scratch through the cause row on the markup and lets see what other comments we get.David Ruben ^Talk 14:13, 3 February 2008 (UTC)