Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums/Backlog elimination drive: Album covers
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Film soundtracks
edit@Richard3120 and Zmbro: Feel free to continue your discussion here (?) I understand the issue re: infoboxes for film soundtracks lacking cover images, but I'm not sure about possible solutions. ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:38, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- Despite my reservations, I genuinely wish you every success in this venture – I'm not going to have the time to participate myself, as I'm already working through the 45,000+ album articles which don't have class and/or importance ratings. But good luck with this. Richard3120 (talk) 14:42, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- I can do my best to try to help out when I can but I'm still in the middle of numerous Bowie-related projects so I'm not sure I will be of much help. Nevertheless, I wish you the best of luck! – zmbro (talk) 15:24, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Richard3120@Zmbro Thanks, both! I've posted a note on the WikiProject Film talk page to see if any editors there have ideas for addressing film soundtrack infoboxes in film articles. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:47, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- The general consensus is that if the poster and the soundtrack cover are the same (i.e Sex and the City 2), the album cover is excluded per WP:NFCC#3a. If they have independent articles (i.e Scarface (1983 film) and Scarface (soundtrack)), they can have similar images as they are independent articles. If the poster and the soundtrack images are different and both are placed in the same article, WP:NFCC#8 applies. (CC) Tbhotch™ 19:26, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- Very helpful, thank you. So one thing we're trying to figure out in the linked discussion below is what to do about articles which have infoboxes that will never have cover art when they are still being added to Category:Album infoboxes lacking a cover. It does not seem helpful to keep populating this category when an infobox will never have a file to display. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:28, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- That means the category is the problem, not the solution. Some sort of ["if=soundtrack|score=exclude"] ["if=twoinfoboxes=exclude"] or whatever way this is coded might be the solution, but I don't know if that's possible. (CC) Tbhotch™ 19:36, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- Very helpful, thank you. So one thing we're trying to figure out in the linked discussion below is what to do about articles which have infoboxes that will never have cover art when they are still being added to Category:Album infoboxes lacking a cover. It does not seem helpful to keep populating this category when an infobox will never have a file to display. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:28, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- The general consensus is that if the poster and the soundtrack cover are the same (i.e Sex and the City 2), the album cover is excluded per WP:NFCC#3a. If they have independent articles (i.e Scarface (1983 film) and Scarface (soundtrack)), they can have similar images as they are independent articles. If the poster and the soundtrack images are different and both are placed in the same article, WP:NFCC#8 applies. (CC) Tbhotch™ 19:26, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Richard3120@Zmbro Thanks, both! I've posted a note on the WikiProject Film talk page to see if any editors there have ideas for addressing film soundtrack infoboxes in film articles. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:47, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- I can do my best to try to help out when I can but I'm still in the middle of numerous Bowie-related projects so I'm not sure I will be of much help. Nevertheless, I wish you the best of luck! – zmbro (talk) 15:24, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
Infobox Coding / Non-Notable Albums
editHello, I just noticed the creation of this new project. I used to visit Category:Album infoboxes lacking a cover regularly and added album covers to needy articles almost every single day. I added more than a thousand over a few years. I no longer do that actively but still add covers when I happen to come across articles that need them. But please allow me to point out some things that User:Another Believer may not have considered:
- My Talk Page archives are overflowing with automated notices about orphaned image files. That's because dozens and dozens of the albums for which I added cover images were later deemed non-notable by someone else, and then were deleted or redirected. So while I like this new project's mission, I fear that part of the effort may be wasted.
- The list of albums needing a cover could also be described as a list of albums that may be non-notable. And the fact that they don't have covers may indicate that few editors ever see those album articles and even fewer care about fixing them... because they are so obscure.
So kudos on the new project, but I also recommend considering whether those listed albums are notable first. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 01:19, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for the feedback! ---Another Believer (Talk) 01:57, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Doomsdayer520 I have no problem if editors want to go through the category and flag entries for deletion appropriately. Similarly, I'm hoping some members of WikiProject Albums will come to a consensus about what to do for soundtrack albums in film articles and help by combing through the category to update pages appropriately. Our goal is not to upload 24,000 images; our goal is to reduce the backlog/category. ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:21, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
- @User:Another Believer - I noticed the discussion points about the many movie soundtracks in the backlog list. I won't estimate the percentage out of 24,000 in the backlog, but it is significant. But on the other hand there are still a vast number of regular albums in there too, and you have to hunt-and-peck to find them. A code-based solution for the backlog list would be very helpful, though I'm not sure who to talk to about that. Perhaps the list/category could be coded in a way so it includes articles with album infoboxes that have no cover images UNLESS they are album infoboxes sitting in articles that are actually about films. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:39, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Doomsdayer520 Some editors have shared thoughts here, but the discussion has sort of stalled and I'm not inclined to keep forcing participation when I have no ideas about possible solutions. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:06, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- @User:Another Believer - A few years ago I suggested a new TYPE for the Album Infobox: "Single Album" as used in Asia (it's somewhere between a single and an EP in Western terms), and we eventually made it happen. I clearly recall the participation of two users that were also in the discussion that you linked above: Jonesey95 and X201. At least one of them was involved in the ultimate change to the coding of the infobox. Consider private discussions with those people because they might be able to help with some of the coding ideas brought up so far. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 16:25, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- Pinging User:Jonesey95 and User:X201 just in case there's interest in further discussion. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:52, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- I can help with coding once there is consensus about what functional changes are desired. I am unwilling to help with nominating non-notable albums for deletion, even when they clearly do not meet the notability criteria. My experience is that there are unwritten rules about articles on songs and albums that result in all of them being kept, even with no notability and no coverage in reliable sources; I find that too frustrating to work with. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:13, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- @User:Jonesey95 There used to be a semi-consensus that if a band is notable, then so are all of their albums. That has been tightened up considerably in recent years with new criteria at WP:NALBUM. Today, an unknown early album by a band that got famous 20 years later would probably be redirected to the band's page. (Anyway, thanks for volunteering to help with the coding if we decide on what is needed.) ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 17:56, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- I can help with coding once there is consensus about what functional changes are desired. I am unwilling to help with nominating non-notable albums for deletion, even when they clearly do not meet the notability criteria. My experience is that there are unwritten rules about articles on songs and albums that result in all of them being kept, even with no notability and no coverage in reliable sources; I find that too frustrating to work with. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:13, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- Pinging User:Jonesey95 and User:X201 just in case there's interest in further discussion. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:52, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- @User:Another Believer - A few years ago I suggested a new TYPE for the Album Infobox: "Single Album" as used in Asia (it's somewhere between a single and an EP in Western terms), and we eventually made it happen. I clearly recall the participation of two users that were also in the discussion that you linked above: Jonesey95 and X201. At least one of them was involved in the ultimate change to the coding of the infobox. Consider private discussions with those people because they might be able to help with some of the coding ideas brought up so far. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 16:25, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Doomsdayer520 Some editors have shared thoughts here, but the discussion has sort of stalled and I'm not inclined to keep forcing participation when I have no ideas about possible solutions. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:06, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
- @User:Another Believer - I noticed the discussion points about the many movie soundtracks in the backlog list. I won't estimate the percentage out of 24,000 in the backlog, but it is significant. But on the other hand there are still a vast number of regular albums in there too, and you have to hunt-and-peck to find them. A code-based solution for the backlog list would be very helpful, though I'm not sure who to talk to about that. Perhaps the list/category could be coded in a way so it includes articles with album infoboxes that have no cover images UNLESS they are album infoboxes sitting in articles that are actually about films. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:39, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
Unusable or Non-existent Images
editFor purposes of this cutting down the album covers backlog, also note that for some old albums there are simply no usable images online. You may find an image in which someone took a photo of an old beat up copy at a weird angle, or even a copy with plastic sheet wrap still on it. The quality just isn't suitable for a legitimate encyclopedia. Or there may be nothing available at all, and this will also leave a lot of leftovers in that backlog list. For example, I tried to find a cover image for The Magician (album), and all I found was this junk. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
Oblivion (2013 film)
editA soundtrack page can definitely be created for Oblivion (2013 film). The article has quite a large section devoted to it, and the soundtrack itself has quite a few reviews by publications. I wanted to let you all know here. – zmbro (talk) 15:33, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
- Consider a split into a new album article, or proposing the same with a tag in the film article and a discussion at its talk page. See procedures at WP:PROSPLIT. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 18:01, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
almost done
editIf anyone is still following this...<300 to go! Category:Album infoboxes lacking a cover. J04n(talk page) 01:38, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
- Your contributions have not gone unnoticed. Thank you! ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:06, 24 January 2024 (UTC)