Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Sailor Moon/Archive 1

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Episode question

Do we want to have individual pages for every one of the 200 episodes? The first season is already underway, which is impressive, although so far the articles are somewhat sloppy. Should we continue? There is precedent: check out Category:Simpsons episodes, if you want to be intimidated off your brain. XD

If we do continue, I think we should combine the Japanese/dub episode summaries, because they'd be pretty redundant otherwise. I would also recommend that they be listed under the Japanese title, with the dub title being a redirect. Each one would contain a section called 'Dub version' or some such, which would describe the changes made in the English episode. That would make it much easier to find the relevant information.

There is another option, though, which is to create a page about each season instead, with mini-summaries for the episodes. This idea could be further developed.

Okay! Sound off. ^__^ --Masamage 04:49, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I like the idea about the season articles with mini-summaries in them. -- RattleMan 05:47, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Watch your use of the term "season". That concept doesn't exist in Japanese television. The show is five different series combined into one metaseries. --  Denelson83  06:45, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Oho! I didn't know that. I assumed that "metaseries" was a reference to its being composed of an anime series, a manga series, a musical series, etc. I'm sort of inclined to keep using the word 'season' just to disambiguate from those, but context probably helps that. Anyway, now I know to, as you say, watch it. :) --Masamage 07:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

What you were thinking of was a media franchise. --  Denelson83  07:21, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

The thought of having 200 separate articles with full summaries seems a little excessive. Having a localized page for each series/season would mean easier organization and maintenance, I think.

I like the mini-summaries concept. Another idea is to have one big summary/plot-outline for each series, followed by a list of episodes with their original titles and English dub counterparts. Any thoughts? -- Jade Keira 16:24, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Keep the first season, since it is already written. But unless we can get specific information (writers, director, original airdate, etc) I suggest not continuing with the articles, instead switching to the summary article instead. -- ReyBrujo 16:33, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I actually like the idea of the seperate articles with the dub differences implemented in them. If the Simpsons can do it, why not? --SaturnYoshi 23:21, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Pick any at random. Notice that the infobox isn't empty as with Sailor Moon episodes. Better to begin with a single article and split it as we get information than having 200 stubs. At least for me. -- ReyBrujo 01:47, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I do agree with that. I think that either way, season articles should definately be written (Stars already has one), right? So let's do that first, and then if things go super-well, we can decide when we're ready to do episode summaries. Right now, I think there are probably too many other things to work on, and 200 stubs really does sound awful.

But we can certainly leave the ones that are already written. In fact, if it's okay with everyone, I do think we should move forward with merging the Japanese and English episodes, as described above. --Masamage 17:12, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

If the episodes are to be sumarized, I would vote in favor sof something like this:

The episode summary, original Japanese. this will lead with the various forms of the japanese title and translation, then after it the list of changes in the dub with the dub title. Separating versions and making it clear will clear up confusion later. Because I don't know about you, but I HATE having to deal with newbies who dcan't distinguish between the manga, anime, dub, and PGSM. When they get confused, I want somewhere to point to clear up the confusion without spouting for long paragraphs. It would be good if the wiki pages could conform to this and it would also step up the quality of the articles, hopefully enough to be featured.--Hitsuji Kinno 04:39, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

My feelings exactly. Separate versions, but keep them in the same article, named for the original. I think that would be pretty easy to understand, too. So one more question: whose translations of the episode titles do we go with? There are some variations. Maybe Hitoshi Doi, unless we decide on a per-episode basis.

Since it's actually pretty unlikely that anyone will use the search box for this ("Taiki sings with excellence! A song carries a believing heart's best wishes!"), probably it doesn't matter too much. We could just go with the ones that are in the Sailor Moon media and release information article right now; I corrected some punctuation and stuff in there earlier, and I think it's pretty accurate. --Masamage 17:29, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Our own template

Here's a prototype of our own Wikiproject template, all that's needed is to get Denelson83's permission to use the SM Flag SVG:

{{WikiProject Sailor Moon}} -- RattleMan 05:59, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Go ahead and use it. I ain't restricting its use. Besides, that template looks great, especially with the flag image there. ;) --  Denelson83  06:40, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Wow! :DD That was so fast! It looks fantastic, thank you! Now how do we go about making it an 'official' template? --Masamage 07:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. Template:WikiProject Sailor Moon. --  Denelson83  07:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

You guys rock. --Masamage 07:29, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm working a little on making the template's behavior more specific, but it currently adds everything to Category:WikiProject Sailor Moon articles, even pages like this that really aren't. I want this stuff to be in the top-level, and articles to be in their own subcategories, with actors, characters, and episodes getting their own categories within that. It's definately getting on time to sleep for me, but if someone wants to give that a shot I'd love it. Otherwise, I'll figure it out in the morning. Thanks again, guys! --Masamage 07:55, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I got the top-level stuff working! It can distinguish between articles and other stuff now, but we'll need a system for article types. --Masamage 17:56, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

{{Sailor Moon}}

It was stated that this template should be refurbished. So what sorts of changes should be made? --  Denelson83  02:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, if we're adjusting who has a character profile and who doesn't, that will need to be reflected. I'd also like to see more in there about other aspects of the series besides just characters, which will mean some condensing. Links to articles about each season would be nice, for example. It won't matter much until we have those sections ready to be linked to, but I think it's a good future goal to keep in mind. --Masamage 16:18, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Any immediate objection to shortening the minor chars list in that template to "Tsukino family," "Other humans," and "Other" instead of listing everyone by name?

Related note: Can anyone think of a better name that "Other humans"? :P --Masamage 22:19, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm gonna go ahead and do this tomorrow, if no one minds. --Masamage 02:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Sailor pluto

Given enough time in future, people will ask why there is a Sailor Pluto, as Pluto is not a planet (per 2006 redefinition of planet). Should we leave a note about this? Cause people WILL ask.SYSS Mouse 19:22, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Of the 35 characters I can think of with 'Sailor' before their names (in the anime and manga only, so not including Sailor Pewter Fox, Sailor Luna, etc. and not including the dozen or more phages), only eight are named for planets that were ever an official part of the solar system. People already ask. It's not important. --Masamage 19:29, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Update: it now has a mention at Setsuna Meioh#Sailor Pluto. --Masamage 21:11, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Citation Formats

The current problem with the wikipedia pages for Sailormoon is that many things are said, but without backing up from the series. Many wikipedia pages have references. While the average person may know that in Volume 5 of the original manga that's where King Endymion speaks Princess Tsukino Usagi Small Lady Serenity as the full name of said princess, I doubt an average fan would and would have verification of this. I'm not saying to mark up every single fact on wikipedia, but thing should be at least supported with citations after the pages are properly formatted and info clean up is being done. I hope this would minamize the confusion between one version and another, as well as to figure out where it comes from. Having a standard format for inter-series support will help clear up that nasty fanon and speculation if anyone is tempted. Having a few quotes from the series to back up points won't hurt either. Things like supporting that the Starlights are 100% girls in the manga, roughly where Guardian Cosmos comes in the manga, and things of that sort so people have context to look it up if they get into the series. Not everyone can be brilliant sailormoonologists and know one version from the other. So should we ask for episode number, season for the anime? or should we ask for just episode number? For the manga, should the citation be limited to original manga? If so volume, act, page, frame? Which to include and exclude?

In general the sources on the Sailor Moon pages are lacking, which have made horrible assumptions on the parts of fans... so I'd like to know if we will try to enforce some kind of citation process for the original series. If we do a n episode guide and an act guide, then we will have a place to reference to... if not, there has to be a good device to make it easier to reference them for verification. Anything said about the creators, staff, people, and series that does not have a verifiable source should be dealt with accordingly until the person cancome up with a reference... otherwise deleted after a certain date. (This includes the rumor about Toei and Takeuchi falling out without any verifiable source on the main page) Thoughts?--Hitsuji Kinno 04:55, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. I think listing the anime episode, and in which language, is good; and I'd say manga citations need to be by Act (not volume), and in which language. Those can even incorporate web cites over to Alex Glover. PGSM by episode, artbooks by title, with a possible link to Manga Style.

I think the details should be in footnotes under 'References', where just "in the manga..." or whatever goes in the prose. And, as a subproject, I think each character's first appearance in each incarnation should be placed in a separate paragraph in the lead.

So...yup! You're totally right, we really need to get stuff cited. Anyone else have some thoughts about it. --Masamage 17:43, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I have to cite if it's the original or shinzoubon. I would vote for the original manga. This is because the number of acts increased in the shinzoubon and many people are more familiar with the original manga than the shinzoubon. I also think this should be covered in its own article, much like the episode listings, there should be manga listings, which will make our lives easier as we just do citations by articles which should have the ISBN numbers (those I can supply since I have the original manga). And then some mention of the DIFFERENCES to the Shinzoubon v. the original manga. I was going to do this for my website anyhow. Also the volume numbers differ for which act has what, so I might think that citing volume would make it easier to look up for those who have the manga. So my proposal is this: (Original Volume #, Act #) and then when the articles are created, one main article for the manga, split by volume (so 18 articles), then sub sections on each Act. Looking something like this:

(page)

Volume #

Volume summary (like where it falls, references, MAJOR events of the volume, etc)

Act #

Act Summary (which notes about shinzoubon differences if it applkies and which this act falls into v. the shinzoubon)

Act #

Act Summary

So like that... the sub articles can also mention the first time attacks are used and major events. either in paragraph form or bullets. Then a major article dedicated to the manga, covering things like the shinzoubon, the importing of the manga, major changes made from version to version, but keep most of the stuff in the main article of Sailormoon intact, but things we can't normally fit. Like descriptions of the arcs, why and how they are named that, etc. I have a Sailormoon Manga FAQ I've been dying to finish, but I can port most of the info from that to this set of articles. This is once the other articles are up to code, so for now, I'm doing Volume Number and Act in the format I mentioned until this issue is addressed further. Definitely citations are needed. It looks sloppy as is.

Villain groups

I've been working on merging the Sailor Animamates into their group article, as per my suggestion above and the other SM villain groups. It worked out pretty well, I think; see the comments on that page for stuff I have questions about.

Here's a bigger question, though: Sailors Chi, Phi, Mnemosyne and Lethe are described as "servants of Galaxia" rather--Masamage 21:53, 25 August 2006 (UTC) than as Animamates. Are they a category of their own? What's it called? Should they go in the Shadow Galactica article? Should they be left alone? In general, what gives?

Okay! Thanks. ^_^ --Masamage 20:53, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Just added the musicals-only senshi, too, except for Sailor Theta, whose fate is mixed in with the above. I should probably get off the computer now. o__O;; --Masamage 21:53, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Locations article

I've created a project sub-page for future integration into Wikipedia: check out the list of locations, as well as its talk page, and feel free to help out! --Masamage 02:41, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Looking good! :) How about a "list of Sailor Moon items"? henshin wands/pens/phones, the Talismans, (Talismen?) the Grail etc.? - Malkinann 07:27, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! ^^ Still needs some work, mostly toward the end, but it's definately getting close.

And, hmm...I bet I could be talked into getting behind that. At first, it seems like way too much detail, but on the other hand, I've been running into the problem of trying to explain what the Talismans are every time they're mentioned. A list would help that, in the same way the locations list saves every Senshi article from having to explain who goes to which school and why. --Masamage 08:40, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Completed

Okay; I do believe the list of locations article is complete. If no one objects, I'd like to move it into the main article space tomorrow. I have in mind several ways to incorporate it into the other articles (linking things out that previously had to tangent off into explanation, and also the complete removal of the Sailor Moon article's "Trivia" section). Any fixes or additions are always welcome! --Masamage 00:41, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

An Upgrade to "B"

A person said if we cleaned up the main SM article per their recommendations we can upgrae the article to a B! This is one step closer to an A and featuring... So, perhaps that should take place? Who wants to discuss the changes that need to be made, etc? --Hitsuji Kinno 20:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Good point! Let's switch this discussion over there to keep from cluttering the Project page, but this is a good way to get everyone's notice. Hey guys! Let's work on that. :D --Masamage 21:36, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Fair use

Due to some missing detailed fair use rationale, the main Ami Mizuno pic has been removed from the article by another user. Just thought I'd bring it to attention. I'm still not quite sure about the whole "loading pictures" thing. -SaturnYoshi 21:50, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok. Another one of my many back-logged to-dos. Add this to the article where the photo is: <!--FAIR USE of this image: In the absence of free images, this image is used as an example scan representative of this character in the series Sailor Moon. --> And add this to a ==Rationale== section of the image page In the absence of free images, this image is used as an example scan representative of this [[Ami Mizuno]] in the series [[Sailor Moon]]. --Kunzite 22:02, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

IMPORTANT

This guy just tagged almost all of our images as "unsourced" even though most of them have sources /right there/ on the image page. I've removed some of the tags and put in anymore info I could possibly think of, but mostly this just really looks like a weird form of vandalism. Please help.

Update: Okay, I went through all of them except the civilian pictures of the main senshi. Many were indeed missing source info, but others were fine. I didn't hit the civilian pictures because I have no idea where most of them are from; some promotional thing? --Masamage 18:54, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I, for one, have never seen an anon IP going around tagging images. If you look at its contributions, you'll see it only tagged SM images. Oddness... -- RattleMan 23:42, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Me neither, but some of them did need it, so I'm not as freaked as I was at first. I would like to see those remaining civilian-shots get sourced, though. They look like Denelson's; I'll drop him a note. --Masamage 23:56, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Looks like they came from the depths of his personal image gallery, which is a problem I can relate to. I'll start digging through image galleries, see if there are any sources to be found. Help is appreciated! --Masamage 00:37, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Episodes proposal

On the subject of the individual episode summaries, I've had a new idea. I still think that we should merge the currently existing ones, as discussed above, and not worry too much about making new ones until the rest of the articles are sparkling. So what I'm about to propose is a solution that makes those much less awkward to work with.

Since the translations of Japanese episode names are widely variant and extremely long, let's move the current summaries to pages with titles like this: Sailor Moon episode 1. Or Sailor Moon episode 001? That's how we talk about them in other articles, when citing sources; by number. This way we could eventually link to them, too. I think it would work beautifully. --Masamage 01:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I like the three digit format (001). As far as titles are concerned for each episode I'd mention the ones from the DVD sets. However, as the Stars arc never officially came to the US, I guess maybe a consensus would have to be reached. I do however own a DVD set of that particular series so I'd like to help as much as possible with implementing the titles on the episodes individual pages. As far as links go, the numbering system is easier and to the point. -SaturnYoshi 03:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to introduce the idea on the talk page for the first episode, both for the name-change and the merge. --Masamage 22:39, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Structure

I've been musing over the possible structure of the Sailor Moon corner of Wikipedia, and it's taken on a certain shape in my head. I think it's time to turn that into a proposal.

• Sailor Moon - Main article. Roughly as it is now.
  • Sailor Moon anime - Episode list, release info, notable directors, etc. Section about TV specials. Link out to English versions article and to Makaiju article.
    • Three movie articles.
    • Episode summaries - See discussions above
  • Sailor Moon manga - Act list, release info, info about artbooks (Materials Collection, etc.), and info about special manga-only stories--such as the Exam Battles, Casablanca Memories, Chibiusa's Picture Diaries (including a merge of the last few characters currently found in List of minor Sailor Moon characters).
    • Parallel Sailor Moon, which would be a renamed version of the current Kousagi article with more information added. Alternatively, this could be a part of the above article, with specific Kousagi info at the minor characters page.
  • Sailor Moon (English versions) - Still has a very awkward name, but. Roughly as it is now.
  • Sailor Moon media and release information - Should not be what it is now. Episode list would be in the Sailor Moon anime article. Probably should become a music page for CD information and so forth. That might involve a rename.
  • Sailor Moon musicals - Would cover what it does now, but do a better job.
  • Video games - Specific names, release info, details.
  • Sailor Moon Collectible Card Game - Basically what it is.
  • Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon

(more specific pages):

• • Sailor Senshi - As it is.
    • Sailor Crystal - Possibly merge with the above. Possibly have Mystical Silver Crystal merged into it.
  • Silver Millennium
  • List of Sailor Moon locations
  • List of Sailor Moon items
    • Talisman (Sailor Moon) and Mystical Silver Crystal may be merged into the above. Or maybe not.
  • Naming conventions in Sailor Moon - Info about mythology, geology, French food, and other inspirations

The only things I have left out of the above list are character bios and story arc treatment. I have a (minor, non-scary) proposal about the bios, but I'll make it later to avoid confusion. I would like to bring up the story arc issue.

There is currently a story arc page for Sailor Stars, which I've always thought was an excellent idea. I would like to see five such articles, one for each of the major arcs. I'm bugged by what they should be named, though. First off, the original story arc doesn't even have a name separate from the series name. We'd have to reach consensus on an inexact name like Sailor Moon classic. Or we could do what Star Trek does and call it Sailor Moon: The Original Series. :P

After that, each arc has two names, one from the anime and one from the manga. We'd have to pick one of these systems:

• Sailor Moon Black Moon, Sailor Moon Infinity, Sailor Moon Dream, Sailor Moon Stars
• Sailor Moon R, Sailor Moon S, Sailor Moon SuperS, Sailor Stars.
  • This is going by what is written in large letters in each logo (as seen on the Sailor Moon page), so that we don't have to name the articles insane things like "Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Sailor Stars."

The second set is much more well-known, so my vote is behind that. I would be entirely against having ten separate articles for each arc of anime and manga. I think each should have a lead and opening sections that describe things that are in common between the two metaseries, followed by sections about things specific to the anime and things specific to the manga.

So! There are two things I'd like to hear in response to this very long post. First, do you agree with the updated structure/coverage proposal? What changes would you make? Secondly, which naming system do you like? Or do you disagree in some other way?

Thanks again, everybody! --Masamage 23:57, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

List of Sailor Moon items

Naming conventions in Sailor Moon

I hate to be consistently discouraging things, but... there have been several pages deleted in recent days with similar topics to this. Lists of weapons or items or naming conventions are generally considered lists for the sake of lists or pages with a very narrow audicnes. The Dragon Ball version of the naming conventions page was deleted just this week, IIRC.

One thing that this article REALLY needs is the critical reception in Japan and in other countries, especially the US. Sailor Moon was heavily marketed as a replacement for Barbie and as hearalding in a new age of marketing towards girls. There are a lot of sources that write on feminism and Sailor Moon that, if incorportated in the the article properly, would send it on it's way towards being listed as a good article, or even featured. I think it would be best to study the article structure of the currently recognized Anime-related articles to get to this... Excel Saga and Planetes ... I can attempt to provide sources for some of this or show people how to obtain them. --Kunzite 02:44, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I, for one, feel that both of those articles would be important to the subject matter. And... as far as naming conventions go... We could incorporate more info into those articles. Like the fact that each Senshi's name, guardian planet, birthdate, astrological sign and even their special attacks are related to each specific character. And on a side note: my solar system will always have nine planets. -SaturnYoshi ^{THE VOICES} 08:39, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

A list of item used in Sailor Moon is really not that important to the subject matter on Wikipedia. If you feel them important, you might want to visit the Sailor Moon wiki which already has in-depth coverage on the subject. Information about naming conventions / origins should be covered in the articles themselves. i.e. The French cooking names in the SS movie can be mentioned on that page, the floral name in the R movie can be mentioned on that page. Likewise, the biblical/serial killer/occult names and themes in the Dracula seires of the musical can be mentioned on a future article about those four musicals. --Kunzite 20:57, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I totally agree with the thing about reception. That definitely is information we need, and I think it would enhance the article as much as you say.

To be honest, I've felt a little hesitant about the items article as well. Most items either don't have any detail to expound on (like the transformation pens), or are tied up in one story arc or another (and could just be explained there). I do think the locations article is good, partly because there are other such lists around, and partly because there was so much repitition of information going on. Items tend to come and go, but locations often last throughout the series. In a similar way it could certainly helpful to keep an items list, but on the other hand, it wouldn't be nearly so difficult to work item descriptions into plot and character pages.

I also think a names page would be good, because of the long argument that has resulted in the total lack of name meanings on the Senshi's articles. On the other hand, an alternative would be to add a "name meaning" section to each Senshi's bio--a whole paragraph to discuss the possibilities, rather than a single static line.

Any thoughts on what to name the arc pages? --Masamage 20:43, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

For the first season, I recommend naming it Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon. BSSM is the most common acronym I know of to refer to the first season rather than the entire show, so it would be in keeping with popular usage. Then use Sailor Moon R, Sailor Moon S, Sailor Moon SuperS, and Sailor Stars. Xuanwu 06:37, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd go with Sailor Moon (TV series). --Kunzite 07:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Parallel Sailormoon

I vote merge with Kousagi (Kousagi into Parallel Sailormoon) and do a new write up. I can do this if no one else will, and then a quick coverage of the AR characters that appear in this storyline. I can read the Japanese for what needs to be filled in that Alex Glover didn't relate and do a quick rough on characters... Thoughts for or against? --Hitsuji Kinno 19:16, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Let's talk about that on Talk:Kousagi, as specified under "Current stuff to vote on" on the main Project page. --Masamage 03:37, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

New category

I've been thinking about creating Category:Sailor Team to consolidate the categories that all ten of the main Senshi belong to. These would include at least Category:Sailor Moon characters, Category:Fictional schoolgirls, Category:Magical girls, Category:Fictional heroines, and Category:Fictional elementals.

Others which are definitely appropriate, but which we aren't yet using, are Category:Fictional princesses, Category:Japanese superheroes, Category:Japanese manga and anime characters, Category:Superheroes by team, Category:Superheroes by animated series (which currently contains Category:Sailor Moon characters), Category:Fictional characters with alter-egos, Category:Resurrected fictional characters (which is an incoming speedy rename, according to this), and probably others. I think that's a sufficiently enormous number of appropriate categories to justify the creation of this new one.

(Other possibilities: Possibly Category:Spin-off comic book superheroes. Category:Mythology in comics might also work, but maybe the whole series would best go into that. Category:Fictional sailors is probably out.)

(Things that they don't belong in that made me laugh are "Fictional cheerleaders," "Fictional bodyguards," and "Fictional correctional officers." Ha ha ha.)

So, if no one objects enormously, I'll probably make this category sometime over the weekend. What do you think? --Masamage 23:05, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Since this does seem uncontroversial and I've got time right now, I'm going to go ahead with it. --Masamage 18:39, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Other Villains

The villain organization is pretty good, however it's incomplete. While it includes the main villains of the manga and anime, the musicals (which I think can be argued are the third major incarnation of SM) also had two original villain groups: one in musical 7 and musical 13 with the Comet Coatl and Dark Plasman, the pirate Loof Merrow, and from the Dracul Arc (musicals 8-10 I think) with Dracula, Lilith, and Sailor Vulcan. I think both of these deserve their own general pages, especially as the groups are developed as characters in their respective musicals. I propose three new groups: "Coatl" to cover Dark Plasman and his two henchmen (Coatl is the name of the comet that they live on), "Kaguya Pirates" for Loof Merrow and her gang, and "Dracul Saga" to cover everyone from the Dracul arc. We may also want to consider creating pages to summarize these two stories, as they are original entires into the SM-verse and not derived from the manga or anime. (Right now I only know Kaguya from having watched musical 13; I'll be getting copies of the Dracul arc and original Kaguya soon.) Xuanwu 06:48, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Awesome. I think I would recommend making single articles for each of those stories, which incorporate both the plot and the character information. That seems to me like it would be an article of appropriate length; either divided would be pretty short. I'll also say right up front that I don't know anything about the Musicals. ^^; I will cheerfully support expansion in that direction, and I'll help with cleanup and such, but my contribution will probably be limited to that. --Masamage 16:21, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Sailor Vulcan? Nope. That's Sailor Astarte who has a touch of multiple personality disorder from being possessed by both parts of the binary planet Vulcan/Death Vulcan, the Goddess Astarte, Lilith of Darkness, and Dark Cain. I think Siva Singetsu Astarte fits in there somewhere as well. The official name is the Dracul Series. --Kunzite 07:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay. I haven't watched the Dracul series yet; they'll be coming to me early next month sometime. I've heard Astarte called "Sailor Vulcan" so I went from that. Glad to see someone else knows a little about Seramyu. Xuanwu 05:22, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Chibiusa Template

There are issues in conforming this one with the other template--if it is done info will be lost. So I started a new topic about it in Chibiusa's talk page. If we vote to integrate it to the main template, that would definitely stepo up the level of the current article plus all surrounding articles. (covering individual arcs for each character and how they evolve as well as the separation between amnag and anime). However, if it is to exactly conform, then info will be lost. It is missing major sections according to the template as well. --Hitsuji Kinno 15:50, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

New Sections Needed

Items and nameology I think should be covered. The items can cover things like links to Nikuman v doughnuts. Odango, and magical items like detailed article on the Maboroshi no Ginzuishou. The nameology stuff will cover the dual meaning of "no" as in Civilian and "of" the naming pattern, the way that the planets have certain elements, puns and other things that can't be covered in depth to the articles. Then the articles can reference these things with links rather than having to explain them over and over again. This will step up the level of the articles, though I think the profiles should be brought up to code first.

I also propose tacking onto the articles where necessary something like the Pikachu article where it covers the popularity of the Sailors in real life (popularity in the media, so I'm taling Newspaper articles, not fanon)-- nor in great detail, but things of particular note, like Usagi's image reappearing, the resurgance of Magical Girl Anime in the 90's in Japan, and factual basis without having the list of everything vccovered, but notable references. There was also a resurgence of twin buns in the 90's which coincided with Sailormoon and can be referenced fromold issues of Teenager magazines which called it the new hot thing but without reasoning why. After Sailormoon fell so did the popularity of that hairstyle. So that kind of thing.

The more useful info that's added, the more likely we'll get upgrade all the articles to the next level. We got most of the articles to a B-level which means everything is getting better, but we need to step it up to the next level. Getmore details of an insane nature that's good for the public, etc. We'll need a good backbone and references a way to reference for this to happen to fend off the fancruft and fanon. Volume references, anime references, fun factoids, etc. --Hitsuji Kinno 15:50, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Items and etymology can be covered in the article that covers the owner of the object or name. ^(Guideline) Detailed etymology of the kanji names (in some cases) does have the tendency to get into the land of cruft. It may be ok for the main characters, but doing it for all character would be a bit much. Why not refer people to the Sailor Moon FAQ by User:Ken Arromdee? Hairstyle and Odango would be interesting, but are there any sources? It would seem to be original research to me. --Kunzite 03:29, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Specifically, I think name meanings should be a new section in the Senshi bios. As for odango, there are some sources; Minako talks a bit while doing Usagi's hair early in the manga, and I believe there's something somewhere about Naoko meaning the odango to look like bunny ears, and when it did't quite work, making Chibiusa's more obvious. But that involves few enough characters that I wouldn't worry about it. (There's an odango article. Though that in itself is a little odd.) --Masamage 03:44, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Then the magical objects should be covered in the character articles? Shouldn't a section be made for it in the profiles? So that the list is there, definitive and can cover what happened to various objects during the course of the series, for example in the manga the Deep aqua mirror of the manga (as supposed to the Submarine Mirror of the anime) stays with chibiusa for a while. --Hitsuji Kinno 15:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe? It depends on the item, I guess. I like the idea of a small items section in each bio--the Silence Glaive, for instance, needs to be covered in Hotaru's article. Dream mirrors, on the other hand, belong in the eventual SuperS article. Talismans are a tricky thing; it seems like they should receive their plot-related coverage in the S series article, and their usage coverage in the Outers bios. Another weird thing is transformation pens. Do those belong on the page of the arc they're received in, or the page of each individual Senshi? I think I'd lean on the former, because otherwise we'd be repeating an extremely boring bit of information some four or five times. So I guess the section could be called 'Unique items'?

I don't have any idea what to do about the Sailor Crystals and Mystical Silver Crystal. They cover all the plotlines and multiple characters (some of which are non-Senshi), so we can't easily plug them in anywhere. My inclination is to merge them somehow and leave them in their own seperate article. --Masamage 19:15, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

"missing Senshi"

I have brought this up before but only in the midist of other converstions. We are most of the lesser known senshi such as Demios and Phobios, as well as the lesser known evil senshi such as Sailor Buttress. I propose we make a page that has info on all of them (Since they don't have an article i surmise that alone they don't have enough info) The page should be of course be divided in to two parts one for good and one for evil. After reading the site "Tomb of little known senshi" i thought of this. I suggest we start looking there for info though i'm sure there are other places though that is the only one i can think of. Lego3400: The Sage of Time 16:43, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

List of minor Sailor Moon characters... --Masamage 03:03, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I've already added Buttress to the Shadow Galactica page, since that's the group she's part of. Xuanwu 05:23, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Phobos and Deimos are not Sailor Senshi. They are Sailor Power Guardians. That link has some wrong info on it... Anyway, I thought I'd just mention it.--Hitsuji Kinno 15:02, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

SeraMyu

Well, I've snipped out the casting lists (could they go in individual character's pages? Like, "In the Sera Myu, Usagi was played by..." ???) and the CD and DVD information, (damned if I know where that could go...) and put it on the talk page, and I think it's made the page a little more readable. If we really wanted to cheat, we could link each individual show's name to its page in wikimoon... ;) - Malkinann 00:48, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, each musical should have its own page, since each musical production is akin to a movie. The Spring and Winter musicals would not get separate pages; instead any differences between the first versio and its revision would be noted in the page (since there are some changes in music and plot). Said pages could include the cast of that musical and the CD and DVD info for it. This would turn the SeraMyu main page primarily into a summary of what the musicals are and notable events in their production history. This is, of course, a very large project to undertake and it'll take time. Sound good? Xuanwu 05:26, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good, but I've not seen a Sera Myu, so unless you're fairly familiar with them, I don't think it'd get off the ground. Would each musical pass the notability tests? - Malkinann 23:09, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes; I'd say each musical counts the same as a major American musical production (probably not Broadway level, but maybe off-Broadway). All were advertised and the subject of merchandise, producing verifiable secondary sources. I've only seen a few of the musicals so far; however, I have more coming in the mail soon. I'll begin work on this maybe over Christmas break (school is keeping me occupied right now). For now, invidual pages for each musical can be made with cast lists, CD, and DVD info since that was on the main SeraMyu page already. Xuanwu 19:40, 28 September 2006 (UTC)