Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Sailor Moon/Archive 8

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Archive 8

Sailor Moon news to add

1. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2011-01-05/new-sailor-moon-ds-game-to-ship-in-spring-in-italy A new game... It's official. It should be added, though it's not in the US, it is relevant since it's a Sailor Moon game that's not being released elsewhere. Anime News Network is a reliable source, right? (The original page confirms it)

2. Sailor Moon is being released in other countries. I'm not sure if this is relevant or not. But it's being released in Hebrew for the first time ever. This makes me think that the lock down on Sailor Moon is reversing, especially considering that Italy got the remastered DVDs out... I'm not sure how to mention this. At least it's something we should keep an eye on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWVfIhDDO18

--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 06:22, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Conversion into a task force WP:ANIME

I think it's say that isn't getting active any more. I thanking possibly that I am going to convert into task force of WikiProject Anime and manga, since all the past archives have been discussed. Sadly, the founder isn't very active anymore. Any thoughts? JJ98 (Talk / Contributions) 11:49, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

When this was originally floated some years ago, it was opposed. Why should it be converted? --Malkinann (talk) 05:07, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

56 articles under this project. Are there any of them that are not already double listed with the anime/manga project? —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 19:25, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Only three -- Mew Azama, Sailor says (redirects to Sailor Moon (English adaptations)) and Super Moonies. G.A.S^talk 04:45, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with this project becoming a task force, but I don't know that this really needs to happen in this case. This is a project with an extensive history, and should be marked {{historical}} if it's totally inactive. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 04:59, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Sailor moon doesn't look that independent to be it's own wikiproject i believe...i think it should be tasked forced so the wikiprojects listed on the talk page don't get so cluttered.Bread Ninja (talk) 07:17, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, I agree, since there are 56 in the project, that would not be a problem, since I've converted WP:ATL into a task force of WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state) myself which went inactive back in 2008. JJ98 (Talk / Contributions) 18:47, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

If the project as a whole is inactive, I'd go with Nihonjoe's proposal of marking it as {{Historical}}. Absorption as a task force seems to indicate that it still has some degree of activity. Considering the great majority of articles are already incorporated by the anime/manga project, going through this process just adds unnecessary bureaucracy in my opinion. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 19:04, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Most of the pages have gone static--mostly because there isn't much more to do or update. Also Masamage has been busy with other stuff. Malkiann has been more active than Masamage and sort of acted as secondary leader. I'm think going Historical rather than task force probably would be better at this point, unless someone wants to take over as leader.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 22:02, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

It looks like it should actually be tagged as {{defunct}} rather than {{historical}} (which is what I mentioned above), but I think it should only be placed there after a year of inactivity just to give it plenty of time. If the project becomes active again, it should probably be merged as a task force or work group of WP:ANIME. If not, then it can be tagged as defunct in January 2012. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 01:43, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Sounds fine with me. If the project has little activity, I'll tag {{semi-active}} myself, if it gets converted into a task force WP:ANIME. If the project has no activity, I'll mark as {{defunct}} just like WP:SPACE. Will see what happens. JJ98 (Talk / Contributions) 04:36, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

There is no need to convert it into a task force. It's had plenty of activity itself, and is merely inactive. Just tag it as inactive for now, and then defunct if it ever goes a year without any activity on the talk page. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 05:46, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I say to convert it for the sake of getting organized. It should've been a task force no matter how many numbers it had or how active it use to be. I say to convert it to taskforce to simplify the talkpages and have better organization. For example, let's look at Talk:PlayStation.Bread Ninja (talk) 19:05, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

We have had our own identity over the years, and part of that was derived from being our own project, free to cover what is related to Sailor Moon, rather than having to shoehorn it under WP:ANIME's scope somehow. Since we were all together last, many things have changed. Perhaps there will be renewed activity in the project due to the release of a new English edition of Sailor Moon in September. I still don't understand what advantages there would be to making this a task force. --Malkinann (talk) 23:18, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Less bureaucracy is the only reason I see given.陣内_Jinnai 00:36, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

How is it "less bureaucracy"? The project title would become longer, something like "Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and manga/Sailor Moon", which would make it harder to get to than just Wikipedia:WikiProject Sailor Moon. That seems like more, rather than less, bureaucracy. --Malkinann (talk) 02:33, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Not sure why the title would be a problem... that is why there are shortcuts. G.A.S^talk 10:30, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

The point I am making is that I asked the proposer of this three days ago why it should happen, and I have not had a response from them as to their reasoning. I do not know how having the wikiproject as it is somehow creates more bureaucracy. --Malkinann (talk) 10:49, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

I am neutral on the proposal as I do not expect any changes or interaction from the WP:ANIME members on the project/taskforce talk page, and since almost all articles are under WP:ANIME's scope in any case.

What this will achieve, however, is a bit more visibility for the project/taskforce (on the navbox), and it might steer some questions to WT:ANIME. Furthermore, WP:ANIME provides administrative functions such as news, deletion sorting, assessment (as well as a task force specific assessment table), et cetera.

G.A.S^talk 14:54, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

egh...you're all making this harder than it really should. What would be the problem of making the title longer if its already inactive for the most part and covers mainly WP:ANIME? I think there's more benefit to changing it into a task force than trivial problems. i really don't see the reasoning in this....and it seems someone is taking the name change slightly more personal if we're gonna argue over bureaucracy rather than organization overall.Bread Ninja (talk) 10:01, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

My feeling exactly. G.A.S^talk 12:43, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

I am deeply concerned that the proposer of this has not bothered to answer as to why he feels this should happen. All of the reasonings given by G.A.S are still as valid if the project remains where it is rather than becomes a task force. WP:SM is already in the navbox, and WP:SM has always used the news, deletion sorting and assessment functions of WP:ANIME or of the other projects which cover Super Moonies, etc. --Malkinann (talk) 22:50, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, it has not been tagged with the WikiProject Anime and manga banner, including Super Moonies. Since I am not a member of WP:ANIME, I am not going to convert into a task force anytime soon, because the project has been independent like WikiProject Transformers and WikiProject Pokémon. If do that now, WP:ANIME is gonna be really not happy about this. JJ98 (Talk / Contributions) 23:51, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

The only benefit I see of converting this WikiProject to a workgroup of WP:ANIME would be to merge Template:WikiProject Sailor Moon with Template:WikiProject Anime and manga. Beyond that, there are no other gains. And regardless of whether it remains a stand-alone project or a workgroup, it will still be marked as {{inactive}}. —Farix (t | c) 23:55, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

the other benefit is having cleaner talk pages of anything relating to Sailor Moon. Regardless...And people....do not take these projects personal...it's not about you/we.Bread Ninja (talk) 01:30, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by "cleaner talk pages". —Farix (t | c) 02:03, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Based on comments above, I think he means all discussion about anything related to anime would be on WT:ANIME instead of on more topic-specific talk pages. Really a weak argument, I think. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 02:45, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

the talk page shows listings of twikiprojects. If it was a task force it would take less space just to list it.Bread Ninja (talk) 02:46, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Why is that a good reason? I am concerned that if WP:SM were to become a task force, articles like Super Moonies would no longer be under the Sailor Moon group's purview, as Super Moonies are not under WP:ANIME's scope. I have had this trouble in the past when attempting to put The Modern Amazons: Warrior Women On-Screen (book), which has information on the Sailor Moon anime, into WP:ANIME's scope. --Malkinann (talk) 05:22, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

How bad would that be? It's a band that just performed the songs for the German version of the opening?. If the scope is vague, its better not just add it to a specific scope such as sailor moon just because its vaguely related like The Modern Amazons book because it "Mentions" sailor moon. That and the article is not notable at all. I think at most if could be deleted. Why "Shouldn't" we make it a task force again? the excuses just seem to move from side to side but never actually stick to just one.Bread Ninja (talk) 02:54, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

I feel it is unacceptable for the Super Moonies and Mew Azama to not be under the scope of the Sailor Moon project, as we cover everything to do with Sailor Moon. You are far more likely to find someone who knows about Mew Azama and the Super Moonies in WP:SM than in the broader anime project, or Wikiproject Germany, or Wikiproject Japan - as such, this project provides links to subject-matter experts with articles. The prior consensus was that WP:SM was not interested in becoming a task force, partially due to the fact that we have a wider scope when it comes to Sailor Moon than the anime project does, and partially because WP:SM had our own identity and culture which is separate to that of the anime project. There is no clear advantage to WP:SM becoming a task force. --Malkinann (talk) 03:16, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

I find that a rather trivial reason (and selfish). Merely to identify you guys as an independent project rather than a task force just because the sailor moon project covers more (which isn't that much)? Their relevance to sailor moon is pretty small and not even notable at all. It doesn't matter how many fans would say they know of the topics questioned because it's not about fans knowing about them. I think you're incredibly bias for sailor moon though if you're defending two articles that aren't even notable...Super moonies can be merged to sailor moon or something, if it can't be merged it can be deleted.

Overall, from what i can see your main reasons is: "if it were to become a task force, our scope would be slightly smaller, and won't be labeled as independent...basically, i wont get what i 'WANT'." The scope only branches out to other articles barely related to Sailor moon. There is a clear advantage and that is simplifying things. There is no real reason not to merge other than keeping non-notable articles within our scope. And even if they did become notable, they are still vaguely related to sailor moon.

Can't you give any other reason not relating to "you"?Bread Ninja (talk) 03:57, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Well we could also "redifine" what TFs can/can't do and allow them to cover pages we wouldn't cover on the project a whole. If we did that, we'd have to clarify that in the WP's scope. IE "Task Forces may cover pages with more trivial connections that those listed under this scope. For those pages, please direct all discussions to the appropriate task force."

I personally don't care either way. I can say this as a member of both projects. I will continue to bring discussions up where I feel they are most relevant. For broader SM based questions WP:Anime, for more nuanced or specialist knowledge here, the relevant article's talk page or ask another user.陣内_Jinnai 04:19, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Im not going to read the whole discussion but my opinion is to tag the project as historical and move on. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 04:56, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

i think we can tag it historical AND change to a task force.Bread Ninja (talk) 05:13, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't think WP: Anime and Manga covers things such as Games, Live Action, Musicals, etc, which Sailor Moon does cover. Sailor Moon is a multimedia machine, often with merchandising to match. (Even flowers being covered under our scope."Happy Barry") Why does it *need* absolutely to be a Task force? Just because? Move it to historical and move on. I think we can agree on that, so why rehash it? Take the point of agreement and run with it.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 19:41, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

They do allow games actually, and musicals? its a given media adaptation. To be honest, i think the WP:ANIME scope could be done simplified and more vague. Such as allowing any direct media adaptation of anime and manga. Still....the "need" is more of a more beneficial thing. technically we need to do anything. I do think we need to do it to simply things and not let fandom overcome our minds. such as worrying about the label and more of the cause it'll happen.Bread Ninja (talk) 01:43, 18 July 2011 (UTC)