Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Figure Skating/Yuzuru Hanyu task force

Talk page launched

@Yolo4A4Lo, ErnestKrause, and Figureskatingfan: I have set up the talk page for Hanyu's page series here. I think, this is the best place for discussions and updates from now on, since everyone in the team can see it. We just need to add it to our watchlists. This is easier than pinging everyone on our user talk pages.

I have also completed the to-do list for all articles in the scope of this page series and created a detailed MOS guide with the purpose to complete and maintain the series properly in the long-term. It might happen that Yolo4A4Lo or me are not able to contribute one day, so it's good to have a guide for others to continue if needed.

Henni147 (talk) 10:39, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you @Henni147 for setting up the project and talk page. I am still trying to read all the details on the project page but for now I have a question, I have checked the following articles in your sandbox but if there is any points I want to comment on regarding those, should we do that here or do that on the articles themselves?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Henni147/sandbox/Yuzuru_Hanyu

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Henni147/sandbox/List_of_programs_and_publications_of_Yuzuru_Hanyu Apqaria (talk) 03:45, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

@Apqaria: I think, it's best to discuss the sandbox contents here for the time being. The drafts of the ice show article and program/publication list will soon be moved to the wiki mainspace, when the leads and prose parts are completed. Then we can open a proper discussion page for them. Henni147 (talk) 10:41, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Comments about main page

@Henni147 Ok, thanks for the reply. I will write a few comments I have on the main page here and I may add later some about the programs page

• Would it be better to add YouTube personality Infobox containing his youtube channel data and Creator awards on his info box instead of having the number of subscribers and views in the article body?
• For the Philanthropy, I was thinking may be we can put a sub section related to 24-Hour Television Program with more details about his appearances which is missing right now.
• For the References, I agree that having them separated from the text is more convenient but the disadvantages of this is having to edit the whole page instead of editing just the section if references is added, edited or removed (which sometimes make me lost in the long text) also I get a bit confused on where to put the new link among all the references already existing ones. I wondered at some point if it would be better idea to have each section with its reference separated but in the same section together but then there is shared links across the whole article so this may not be the best idea. Then I though it would at least be better to have guidelines to where exactly a new reference would be added (if there is sections in the references part or group the references by section or just have the references sorted by their place in the article).

Apqaria (talk) 14:11, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

@Apqaria: Here are my comments to your suggestions:

1. I was thinking about adding a YouTube info box to his bios too. We can definitely do that. However, I would not entirely remove the numbers from the prose part, since it's unusual to gain that many new followers and clicks after one day. I have found this source that mentions Yuzu being first in the YT power rankings of new accounts in Japan, which seems to be a big deal.
2. Yeah, we could mention the 24H show under philanthropy in one sentence and maybe add more detailed information on the new programs/publications page.
3. Regarding the references: Yes, I can add detailed guidelines about where to sort in new sources. I am also thinking about making the structure of the "Citations" section more simple with less sub-headings. That's a good point.

• The disadvantage of grouping by sections or adding the full source as inline citation is, as you mentioned, that we can create duplicate sources by mistake. If we put all sources together in the reference section, no source can appear twice. Other advantage of one bundled reference section is that it's easier to find specific sources (for the expansion of other articles for example). You only have to check one section instead of five or ten (see Olympic seasons).
• I am no fan of sorting sources by their first appearance in the article, because with every edit in the prose part, we have to flip the order of sources in the reference section as well. That's why I think, a chronological sorting by the sources' publication date is the best solution.

Henni147 (talk) 19:16, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks @Henni147 for the reply. I have added the youtube infobox. For now, I removed the number of views and subscribers from the prose since it will be duplicate information in the page but I agree that we can add more info about how fast he gained subscribers and views on his channel, I think this source may also be useful.

Also, another point to add to the discussion for the main page, I was wondering if subsections will be made in his professional career section in the future and how that would be done. Maybe by year if there are too many events happening or by type of activity or events. Apqaria (talk) 17:52, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

@Henni147 I think this source will be very good to add to the citation container you have in the Yuzuru Hanyu page sand box since it shows his affect on local economy.

And talking about Prologue, I think it should be highlighted how this may be the first time a skater have such a Solo/One-man Ice Show. Not sure if there is a source talking about this but I think it is really something that deserve to be explicitly mentioned in some way. Apqaria (talk) 23:39, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

@Apqaria: You'll laugh. I just logged in to add exactly this source to our container. And very big yes. If we find a reliable secondary source that confirms Yuzu's solo ice show to be the first in history, we definitely should highlight that information. IF (couldn't find any yet). Henni147 (talk) 08:47, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Comments about program/publication draft page

@Henni147 Haha, that is great ^^ I wanted to add also some questions/comments about the list of programs and publications draft

• I think we should add section for the documentaries and compilation programs that was done on Yuzu as well. There was multiple documentaries about his Journey after 3.11 and his Olympic wins (ex. Challenge to the Gold Medal, Memories of That Day....etc) in addition to the compilation of his NHK trophy performances broadcast by NHK or the upcoming compilation of his Nationals participations on Fuji TV.
• For "Haru yo, koi", I think we should mention that it is "composed by Yumi Matsutoya" not "sung by Yumi Matsutoya" since the program is not using the music rather than the song itself.
• Will "Haru yo, koi" be added to the "Show programs as a professional skater" since he skated it fully in 'Prologue'?
• About the "Bibliography" list, I always wondered how you get the ISBN of the books, Could you let me know about that?

Apqaria (talk) 12:51, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

@Apqaria: I'll answer your questions one by one:

• Yes, it might be good to add notable documentaries or compilations about Hanyu to the publication list as well. However, we have to discuss what to add and what to skip, because the full number of publications ABOUT Hanyu could fill a wiki list article on its own. That's why we decided to limit the publication list to works, where Hanyu was named as an author/publisher himself (for the time being).
• Yes, it's a good idea to change "sung" to "composed" by Yumi Matsutoya. I will do that later.
• "Haru yo, koi" is included in the "Prologue medleys" that will later be linked in blue, when the ice show article is ready to be moved to the article mainspace. I only mentioned "Change" and "A Fleeting Dream" separately, because "Change" was performed as a live music collaboration with Koki Nakamura, and "A Fleeting Dream" is a new program that hasn't been mentioned with its program details in the previous tables. "Haru yo, koi" as well as Seimei and the other Prologue programs are all listed with composer/performer/choreographer somewhere else on the page already, so I think it's enough here to bundle them under "medleys", which will link to this table later.
• Re ISBN: You can find ISBN numbers of books and magazines either here (this link is also included at the bottom of the programs/publications draft page under external links) or in the product details on Amazon, Rakuten or the publisher's website for example. Some Japanese magazines only have a JAN number, no ISBN. I will later add precast citation templates for commonly used Japanese magazines like Kiss and Cry, Figure Skate Life etc. on our task force page.

Henni147 (talk) 14:12, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

@Henni147 Thanks for your response

• Yes, I noticed not all publications were put in the draft and I guessed this may be the reason. Regarding to documentaries, we can limit mentions to standalone documentaries, specials and compilations (not aired as part of a program or regular competition coverage). To put up an initial list, here is what I have:
• Documentaries/Specials

• Future of Tohoku (NHK - November 19, 2010)
• Spirits of the Atheletes (NHK - November 19, 2012)
• Hero's Decision (TBS BS - January 8, 2013)
• Birth Day (TBS - March 1, 2014)
• Challenge to the Gold Medal (NHK - February 2, 2014)
• To reach the affected areas - Dance of Hope ~Hana wa Saku By Yuzuru Hanyu~ (NHK - 2014)
• Hanyu Yuzur x Nomura Mansai: Essence of Performance (NHK BS 1 - December 30, 2015)
• Jounetsu Tairiku - Episode 900 (TBS - April 10, 2016)
• Spirits of the Atheletes (NHK - March 19, 2017)
• A Conversation: Yuzuru Hanyu x Kanon Matsuda (October 16, 2017)
• Road to the Gold Medal (NHK - February 26, 2018)
• Multi angle Documentary (NHK - January 29, 2019)
• Yuzuru Hanyu Special 'The Never-Ending Challenges' - 羽生結弦 感動をありがとう (TV Asahi – July 23, 2022)

• Performances Compilations

• Yuzuru Hanyu's 10 years Trajectory (Compilation of NHK Trophy Performances) (NHK – March 31, 2020)(there was rebroadcast on July 23, 2022 in addition to remake version with new interview aired on November 3, 2022 and also had public viewing I think on November 17, 2022) (More info here and here)
• Yuzuru Hanyu's glorious All-Japan history (Fuji TV 2 - December 7, 2022) (More info here)

Please note that some dates or titles need to be revised or completed Apqaria (talk) 18:56, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

@Apqaria: Thank you very much for compiling this list of documentaries! I recommend you to consult Marika yuzu to check the list for completeness and up-to-dateness. She's probably more familiar with this than me.

Note: I re-structured this talk page a bit and reduced the indent to reasonable level. Henni147 (talk) 13:15, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Elevate Hanyu's biography to vital article class

@Yolo4A4Lo, ErnestKrause, and Figureskatingfan: I have nominated Hanyu's biography article for vital article class level 4 today. Currently, there is only one level 4 spot for figure skating biographies, which is occupied by Sonia Henie, who is undoubtedly a key pioneer of the sport. However, given Hanyu's long list of achievements and accolades as well as his global popularity and impact on the sport, including his upcoming show at Tokyo Dome in February 2023, I think it's enough to qualify for level 4 now. If you agree, it would be great if you gave your support. Henni147 (talk) 09:29, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Henni147; I'm thinking also at this time in terms of your updating the Hanyu biography article to include his transition to public appearances now, that there are significant similarities to the career of John Curry which might add some insight into the Hanyu article as well. What do you think? ErnestKrause (talk) 15:33, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

@ErnestKrause: Thank you very much for your support.

Regarding Hanyu's professional career: We are currently working on a new sub-article about his self-produced shows to unburden his main biography. When that one is ready for the move to the mainspace, we can think about a smart solution for his bios together. I generally agree that the bios need a structure that is flexible towards future expansion, but still keeps the article at reasonable length.

Other interesting new info: Google Search has just published the main trends of 2022, and Hanyu is ranked 6th in the list of most searched athletes worldwide across all sports, placed behind Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal, and Serena Williams (all tennis), Manti Te'o (American football), and Shaun White (snowboard). He is the only Asian athlete in the list. I think, this again adds to his incredible status. Henni147 (talk) 15:43, 7 December 2022 (UTC)