Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink/Archive 11

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Doner kebab, Iskender kebap

Please visit these two articles Doner kebab and Iskender kebap and review the changes made by IP User:88.254.135.2 today and his dynamic IP predecessors since 26 February 2006. Your editorial judgment, and if necessary intervention, will be appreciated. --Zlerman (talk) 07:04, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Looks like someone is pushing his POV.

Warrington (talk) 12:20, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your effective and impartial handling of the situation. Let's see if the turmoil subsides. --Zlerman (talk) 12:26, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

You are welcome. I suggest that you contact WikiProject Food and drink member User:Macrakis, who may be an expert on the subject. (could take a day ot two to get an answer)

Warrington (talk) 12:39, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion. I have now written to User:Macrakis directly, although initially I was counting on him to pick up the broadcast message from this project page. Incidentally, our anon has been very active indeed during the last few hours. --Zlerman (talk) 14:30, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

List of foods

Hi, everyone could you help me expand contents in food-list articles? I just created List of cookies, List of pies, List of puddings and except images, much of entries are not filled up with contents. I think these lists are good to generate interests on food articles and have potentials to aim for FA lists. As you know we just have "one" FA list so far, it's shame. If anyone are interested in these, don't hesitate to edit! Thanks.--Caspian blue 02:45, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Galangal

The page for galangal, the root vegetable, describes the entirely fictitious island nation of Galangal. It's completely bogus, and should be deleted. Shamalbek (talk) 01:22, 8 March 2009 (UTC)Shamalbek

Barley is successful nom for next fortnight - we'll see how we go

Be nice to get something like this to GA or something so have at it. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:59, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

De Lorenzo's Tomato Pies

I created De Lorenzo's Tomato Pies could use some expanding if anyone is interested there were about 20 more sources i saw. I think it won a few awards too can't find them though. Valoem ^talk 00:28, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Article need immediate work and citation

These articles needs to be rescued with citations:

• Stewart's Drive-In
• Surf Taco

Valoem ^talk 14:35, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Are there notability guidelines for places like this? They don't really seem like they're worth rescuing.

Peter ^Isotalo 15:22, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

• I don't see how Tiffany's or Surf Taco pass unless additional citations can be found. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:10, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

• I found numerous sources for Tiffany's. Did you research Surf Taco? It is a huge chain in New Jersey and very notable. Valoem ^talk 02:16, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Last I checked, online presence did mean an automatic qualification inclusion in Wikipedia. Can we get more specific here?

Peter ^Isotalo 15:30, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

By did i think you meant didnt right? Notable sources are important. In this case sources such as reviews and interviews are good. A quick google search was just a starting point. Each of those restuarants had over 100,000 hits. Though this alone many not establish notability it is a start nonetheless. I did check those and there are numerous sources that are notable I didnt want to do all the work alone. I'll work on Ho-Ho-Kus Inn and Stewart when I get a chance if some other people can work on the other two that would be helpful. I came here for help expanding the article not for an AfD. Valoem ^talk 19:35, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I updated and added information to Ho-Ho-Kus Inn and Tiffany's. Valoem ^talk 16:21, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Sardine article

Cross-posted between WikiProjects Fishes, Fisheries and Fishing and this one.

I have some information to add to the article Sardine. I have both scientific, commercial and cultural-related edits to make but my obstacle is that the article is a a bit of a mess and would like to know about your opinion on what is the best approach to take. To be as simple as possible, the article as it is now have an intoduction discussing the commercial use of the Sardines; a section in the form of a list concerning the scientific classification; another one called 'Sardine in popular culture' (a bizarre mix of sardine's cans and art, sardines in countries' culture and a history of fishing per country) and finally comes the tiny 'nutrition' section. I hope you've already got the picture of the mess.

So, what can be done with that article? My opinion is to split the article but I prefer to hear about other alternatives, if there are any. -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 10:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Chefs

I've begun working on an article (in my sandbox here) about a master chef from my area named Hartmut Handke. I won't get into the recognitions/awards he has here but I feel that he is obviously notable (from his awards and the articles written about him and those awards). The reason I come here is to ask for some input from chefs (no chef wikiproject so this seemed like the best place). I'm not sure if there are places to look for information about him besides what I find on Google. I'm also not sure how reliable each non-news website is. For instance, I assume the American Culinary Federation is reliable but I'm not sure about other such organization or where their awards rank. Also, I know that he's won awards globally but I'm not sure where to find info on those awards (mostly because I don't speak French). Any help you could provide would be very much appreciated. You can leave your comments on the sandbox article or on my talk page. Thanks for your time. OlYeller^Talktome 15:05, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Making of Pathiri-Typical Malabar kerala breakfast-On occasions

the making of pathiri is not clearly mentioned. If someone could give Step by step of this delicious break fast. It would be useful , From the enumerated description we can understand the ingredients that are use for it, But the measures and the contents mixed are not clear and the mixing, the thava used, use of oil, making of it, etc are not depicted. Any good grandmother of a keralite expert in making pathiri is required to tell us the process of making the MALABAR PATHIRI, Will some maa help us ............ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.75.211.59 (talk) 16:39, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Per WP:Not we do not include recipes. Please see Wikibooks:Cookbook for recipes. --Jeremy (blah blah) 17:15, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Article alerts

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Bosnian cuisine

Please visit Bosnian cuisine#Gallery and express your editorial view of the 22(!) photos in this gallery. In my view, it is bloated (two photos are repetitions of photos appearing in the body of the article, there are five virtually identically shots of buffet spreads), contains unidentified generic photos (Gourmet Bosnian dish, Dessert), contains pictures of dishes that are not typically Bosnian (Strawberry dessert, Ice cream and chocolate dessert, Shrimp salad). When I tried to trim the gallery to a more compact and more focused selection (8 pictures "only"), the author of the photographs User:DJ Bungi accused me of vandalism. I would therefore like other food editors to have a look at this gallery and edit it as needed. --Zlerman (talk) 18:15, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Jeremy

I just wanted to recognize all of the work that Jeremy has been doing for our project recently. He has been doing some great things to our main page, or sibling projects, as well as the Food Portal. We should all take a moment to thank him if you have a moment. I personally know how much work goes into keeping this system working and how much stress there is involved in working with strong-headed editors, he has done all of this with a great demeanour.--Chef Tanner (talk) 04:56, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

• Thank you, Chef Tanner, for raising this issue. I greatly admire Jeremy's work and his contributions to food and cuisine articles. For me, he is the "court of last resort" in these matters. I would award him an accolade of barnstars, but unfortunately I do not know how this is done. All the more power to Jeremy, and I am sure I am not alone in this. --Zlerman (talk) 06:20, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Snack food needs globalization

Cross posted here and at Talk:Snack food

I've tagged this article as not representing a worldwide view of the subject as it represents an almost exclusively Western European view of snack foods and snacking. Even the gallery only shows images of western foods. Furthermore, typical oriental snack foods are referred to as "international" snacks. This definitely needs to be addressed. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 07:36, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/À la carte

This article is up for deletion, and I felt members of this WikiProject should be aware and have the chance to comment.—S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 23:20, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I must admit I'd be inclined to merge À la carte into restaurant, or at teh least tehre should be a summary of the former at the latter article...Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:51, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Food street restored

Hi all, I noted that Food street has been recreated and is completely transformed from the pre-AfD versions (which I have restored to compare with the current version). Fascinating topic and one that would benefit from some more referencing if tehre were more global references and discussion in books on cuisine etc. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. By the way, the title should be renamed.--Caspian blue 00:32, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

What to, do you reckon? Casliber (talk · contribs)

I would merge the whole shebang into Street food which already has a section for Pakistan that needs work and could be improved by merging the worthwhile information from this article. After the merge I would go back and target the Food Street article to the Pakistan section of the merged article if in fact this name has special relevance in that coutry (which seems okay since no one else tried to do anything with that name before now). That's my 2 cents. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Eh, but I could be wrong. Maybe it's okay stand alone. I could go either way. I see it's not exactly about street food, but I think it could be grouped into coverage there. It can also stand alone and be okay. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:07, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Just for the title, I think Food streets in Pakistan would be a fine choice since there are many "food streets" in the world, and the article focuses on Pakistan. Or the article should be internationalized if the title is retained as it is.--Caspian blue 01:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

I prefer the latter idea...now for some global template...(can you enter any info on the subject from your neck of the woods?) Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:50, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Lumière (restaurant)

what's with the garish green infobox, the purpose of which seems more like a menu/p.r. release than anything encyclopedic. This restaurant, though currently closed for renovations, is indeed notable because of all its awards and reviews; but is it notable in an encyclopedic sense. The lede plugs its pastry chef; the head chef, OK, worked with Gordon Ramsay. But so what? Lots of people have. I don't understand the parameters of restaurant articles so am bringing this here; I also placed a notability tag on Feenie's, which is now closed and not notable except for Rob Feenie owning it. Wikipedia should not be used for promotional purposes; this restaurant is mostly notable, in a real-world sense, for the celebs who have dined t here. Others in Vancouver are notable for events which took place in them, e.g. El Lupo, which doesn't have an article yet, where the RCMP put the Finance Minister under surveillance in relation to the BC Legislature Raids case. I've not placed teh notability tag here because Lumière is somewhat notable, but how relevantly notable remains to be seen. To me Hy's Prime Rib on Hornby, which is much older and "has a history" (of who dined there....likewise Trader Vic's (Vancouver), which used to provide take-out for Howard Hughes, who lived upstairs in the Bayshore....) is more relevant, as are "famous chains" and others with historical relevance. Is having a bunch of awards and gourmet-magazine awards sufficient grounds for notability?Skookum1 (talk) 00:49, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I would say Feenie's is not notable enough based on the current references to meet guidelines, although the shows covering it might be considered enough. A restaurant being famous for one event generally wouldn't meet my standards for notability. One with a long history, notable cuisine or dishes, and substantial coverage would be. I think there's been a bias towards chains, but I like to see coverage of notable independent restaurants. So if Trader Vic's is an old standy and notable, I think it should be included. It sounds familiar, wasn't there a Trader Vic's in LA? Was it a Tiki place. Awards certainly indicate notability also. Not sure that clears anything up. I go by the usual standards of substantial coverage, awards, and other indicators of notability. I guess there will always be an element of subjectivity. Lumiere seems notable to me based on the awards and the likelihood that there is substantial coverage of the restaurant. If you don't like the template you can discuss it or be bold and remove it. Is there another you prefer? None at all? ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:19, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Fleischbutter

i would like to delete this article, it has no sources and in germany it is not known afaik. i asked others in the german wikipedia if it is known [1], but it seems like no one has heard of it. using google i found a few mentios of a "Party-Fleischbutter", but i think they are copyvios from a cooking magazine. Elvis (talk) 11:11, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Soup versus Stew

Could someone tell me what the difference is? Perhaps also put it in the articles? kilbad (talk) 20:22, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Bigger chunks. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:19, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Are you serious? kilbad (talk) 21:29, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Thicker (gravy-like) broth?--kelapstick (talk) 21:41, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Kelapstick is Canadian. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:15, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I think I need an expert to tell me the difference. kilbad (talk) 22:42, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

According to the good folks over at Dictionary.com, a stew is a preparation that is cooked by stewing (simmering or slow boil) and it also says especially a mixture of meat and vegetables. A soup is a liquid food made by boiling or simmering and includes various (more various I would say, typically speaking) ingredients.

I also think there is a difference in usage wher stews are typically considered meals and include larger chunks of ingredients. There is some overlap, but a stew isn't for example made from pureed veggies and there's no chicken noodle stew that I know of, but some of the difference derives from common word usage. I think of stew as a slow cooked (simmered) meal that is usually meat and veggies in chunks. Soups (liquid foods) encompass a much broader range of preparations. I hope that helps. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:02, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your response. I appreciate it! kilbad (talk) 23:08, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Brazilian meat

What is the difference between Rodízio and churrascaria? Should they be merged? ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:29, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

In need of serious expansion.

The Hershey Company is need of serious work. ResMar 23:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Rainbow cookie

Does anybody know anything about these tricolor cookies? There's a debate about whether or not this is the best name to use and on what the original Italian (if that's the correct origin) name is. Feel free to weigh in. That's amoré? ChildofMidnight (talk)

Massive tagging error

A Food and drink banner, and the following message has been placed on every breed of chicken talk page:

"WikiProject Food and drink Tagging

This article talk page was automatically added with

banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . Maximum and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories , but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 07:02, 4 July 2008 (UTC)"

I think that cross categorizing everything in category "Chicken breeds" was a mistake. These are animals not foods (some breeds like Phoenix (chicken) and many others are exhibition breeds, pets, and otherwise not really used for food, or they produce eggs. Additionally, by this rationale if you tag all agriculture articles or all things related to food, food production, or which is potentially used for food you should tag plough, horse, donkey, alligator, soil, garden, dog, cat, and seed. I don't have hours to untag all the chicken articles, please adjust TinucherianBot to undo this crazyness. I will post this on TinucherianBot talk as well. Thanks. Earthdirt (talk) 02:30, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Just remove the banner as you encounter them, that is all that you need to do. The issue is a known problem. Thanks for pointing this instance out. --Jeremy (blah blah) 05:04, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Poll: autoformatting and date linking

This is to let people know that there is only a day or so left on a poll. The poll is an attempt to end years of argument about autoformatting which has also led to a dispute about date linking. Your votes are welcome at: Wikipedia:Date formatting and linking poll. Regards Lightmouse (talk) 09:33, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

5 (gum)

Could someone review this article? I have worked on it quite a bit and think it is about a C. Thanks ~Richmond96 t • c 01:49, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Tupelo Honey Cafe

Please visit the AFD for this one and educate me on what kind of notability restaurants need to avoid speedy deletion for notability. There are a surprising number of ghits for this one, but do restaurant reviews = notability? - Dan Dank55 (push to talk) 03:16, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Fry sauce

Its originated in Puerto Rico, why does the article mostly talk about its use in the US? Oh, and btw, I've never heard the term "fry sauce" before. Raaggio 12:45, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Buddha's delight

Please see Talk:Buddha's_delight#Foreign_language. I would like some clarification regarding Food and drink style guidelines. Thank you. Viriditas (talk) 10:03, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Tripas a moda do Porto - rerouting to mexican food

"Tripas a moda do Porto" is a typical portuguese dish, unrelated to mexican cuisine. Besides, it is related to historical events in Portugal, either through fact or legend.

The english version of the page sends everyone directly to "tripas" which is related to some mexican dish that looks similar but has a completly different number of ingredients and is cooked in a different way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.107.248.208 (talk) 16:54, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Vegetarian and Vegan?

What is the story with foods being categorized as both Category:Vegetarian cuisine and Category:Vegan cuisine? For example hummus, notwithstanding the international disputes as to its ethnic origin, it is categorized as both. I would think that it should be categorized as vegan cuisine only, as if something is suitable for a vegan diet it is suitable for a vegetarian diet also. Or am I missing something?--kelapstick (talk) 16:19, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

That's like asking how a person can be both Christian and Presbyterian. Badagnani (talk) 17:16, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

So are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me? Can something be vegan and not vegetarian? I don't know why it would have to be categorized in both. --kelapstick (talk) 18:50, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Vegan is vegetarian but vegetarian is not vegan. One must be a subset of the other, e.g. a Presbyterian is a Christian but all Christians are not Presbyterian. --Jeremy (blah blah) 04:39, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

50% of one and half a dozen of the other. I don't know what WP's guideline is on this. I would say it's fine to include hummus in both, but to follow our normal manner of categorization it should only appear in the "vegan" category. The problem with a "vegetarian" category (without a lot of subcategories) is that it would include an enormous number of foods in the world, as a huge number of foods are prepared from vegetables. Badagnani (talk) 04:47, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Gosh I hate over categorization, so do I need to label Risi Bisi vegan because it is peas and rice, but wait, does everyone add water or stock or broth. Dubious territory, I don't like categorizing "dishes" to a cuisine unless they a finate in definition.--Chef Tanner (talk) 00:13, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm with you on that. I do a very nice brussels sprout and chestnut soup. Vegan, you would think. Ah, but what really sets it off is the chicken broth base. Except I suppose you could use vegetable stock, but then it wouldn't taste the same. Roast beef and yorkshire pudding could be a vegetarian dish if you made the puddings with vegetable fat and left out the beef. Keep vegan and vegetarian cats for pages that specifically discuss those topics. Pyrope 13:07, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't see the problem with hummus being in both categories. I mean the food, not the fertilizer ;) --JohnnyB256 (talk) 11:53, 2 May 2009 (UTC)