Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Guitarists/Archive 1

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Welcome to WikiProject Guitarists

I hope to get some great articles established about guitarists, as well as improving existing ones. All comments are welcomed and encouraged, as this is the first WikiProject I have set up. --Aguerriero (talk) 22:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Infobox

To anyone interested - I invite commentary on the infobox I developed on the project page. Specifically, the color, the layout, and any fields that you think should be required or optional. Thanks! --Aguerriero (talk) 20:25, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Is there anyway the box could be less wide, its often very very difficult to find such a large and wide image of a musician to fit the box, for instance the album infobox and band infobox are both set at 20em but the guitar infobox one is set all the way at 24em, why don't we just use conform the sizes of the music boxes to 20em and allow for easier image finding? But besides that I like every thing else about the infobox, maybe add in for a category Guitars used and list out what guitars they used possibly the names of the guitars i.e. Blackie, Frankenstrat, and the model and make Gibson Les Paul, Gibson SG etc.

for example

Guitars Used: Blackie-Fender Stratocaster,

- Patman2648 02:14, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Narrowed the box to 20em, thanks for the suggestion. I think it should only get bigger if you try to use a bigger image. I can add the item "Guitars used" tomorrow, unless you have time to do it in the mean time. --Aguerriero (talk) 02:44, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

• Guitars Used: Gibson ES-335, Blackie-Fender Stratocaster, Gibson Les Paul
• Guitars Used: Gibson ES-335, "Blackie"-Fender Stratocaster, Gibson Les Paul
• Guitars Used: Gibson ES-335, Fender Stratocaster"Blackie", Gibson Les Paul

Out of the three above which one looks the best for guitars used, I'm unsure on which one to use so outside opinion would really help to decide which one is best for the guitars used section. Even then should the section be "Guitars Used" or "Notable Guitars" or "Notable Guitars Used," again I'm on the fence. Thanks again - Patman2648 05:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

That's a really good question.. because for a lot of guitarists, "guitars used" would be literally a few dozen or more. I like "Notable Guitars" better, because then editors can just list whatever they are best known to use - like Lucille for B.B. King, the beat-up SRV strat for Stevie Ray Vaughan, etc. Of the formats above, I like the third best. --Aguerriero (talk) 14:56, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree completely, use "Notable Guitars" and use the third format so in the end it will look like this below. I'll fix the guitar infobox and let you enjoy your wikibreak. - Patman2648 01:12, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

• Notable Guitars: Gibson ES-335, Fender Stratocaster"Blackie", Gibson Les Paul

Personally I like Fender Stratocaster ("Blackie") . --Hector 18:13, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Quick question to Project members RE:Notable

Can notable mean "Signature models"? Since many guitarists have been bestowed with their own Sig model, does that make it "notable" enough to mention in the box? Anger22 17:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow is that a good question, I would guess so that its appropriate because it is specifically their signature model which pertains to them exclusively, I'd say yes but I'd suggest hearing input from another editor to finalize the decision (after all this a community). - Patman2648 05:20, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I would agree with this notion. Usually any guitar that a guitarist endorses becomes notable because they end up using it constantly, per their endorsement agreement. --Aguerriero (talk) 12:10, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Need recruiting help

To all participants - we need help recruiting members for the project. I am unsure what the best way is to go about this. I have tried posting notices to talk pages of people who have guitarist userboxes, but that has been met with limited success. Most members that have signed up so far are either people who signed up after seeing the Project notice on a guitarist article, or I contacted them directly when I noticed they contributed a lot to one or more guitarist articles. Thoughts? --Aguerriero (talk) 12:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed the project until recently. Have you posted on the Wikipedia musician project talk page? I've been playing guitar for over 40 years and currently have 27 guitars in my personal collection...do I qualify?...just kidding...count me in. Plus, I know at least one user who frequents the guitar related pages that might be interested in participating as well. As for me, I am a VandalProof user and vandal blocking constitutes the bulk of my Wikipedia contributions. I have hundreds of guitarists in my watchlist. If you notice any guitar related articles that seem to get hacked quite often feel free to let me know and I will add them to my list(if they aren't there already) And as I "vandal watch", I will try and slip in a few guitar edits based on the guidelines I see posted here at the project. Cheers and take care! Anger22

The project didn't exist until recently. :) WikiProject Musicians was largely abandoned, so I didn't bother too much with it. I wanted to focus on guitarist articles exclusively to give this project a very well defined scope. If you want to do something immediate on some of those guitarist articles you are watching, you could simply add the project notice to their talk pages. That way at least we have guitarist articles identified and listed so we can go back and fix them up.

BTW, I'm jealous of your guitar collection. I have been playing for about 15 years and only have a woeful 4 guitars. --Aguerriero (talk) 14:47, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Quick question for project members

An anon has been trying to edit warring a POV/original research paragraph into the Eddie Van Halen article recently. It is replaced as often as it's removed. I took the time to review the edit history of the article and found that this same IP has been quite busy with the article for quite some time. The result is that the article is written very poorly and is oozing with POV, original research and nary a citation to be found. I was going to put a {noncompliant} tag on it and then attempt a possible cleanup. But since this falls more into this projects mandate I thought I would bring it up here first. If any members have a chance to review the article it would be a good thing because right now it's horrible. Fair Deal 16:51, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Have you tried engaging the user (I know it is difficult with IP users) about the situation? What I would do is try to talk to the user, then try to obtain a rough consensus on the article talk page about whether the paragraph is appropriate. If the user is still persisting, you may have to take action informally through the Mediation Cabal or formally through Requests for Mediation. In the mean time, anyone here who is interested can take a look at the article quality and maybe help out. --Aguerriero (talk) 14:15, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Infobox causes blank space

Hello, I just added myself as a member of this project, and as I went on to do my first infobox, I noticed that there is a blank space at the top of the article that is caused by the infobox. It can be seen both in the Mark Knopfler article and in the article I just added an infobox which is Dave Murray (musician). But strangely this blank space cannot be found in the Eddie Van Halen article. So what's up? — Prodigenous Zee - 01:41, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

That is strange... I will have more time to look into it tomorrow. I'll see if I can figure it out. In the mean time, if anyone wants to take a crack at it, be my guest. :) --Aguerriero (talk) 02:06, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I went to look at it today and it appears that Freakofnurture fixed it. What a good samaritan! --Aguerriero (talk) 20:13, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Yngwie Malmsteen article in need of cleanup

There is a section in the Yngwie Malmsteen biography entitled, "See you in Tokyo, bitch!" Apparently, it attempts to explain the infamous fight between Malmsteen and one of the flight attendants aboard an airplane he was on, but the section is very poorly written, written in the language of an incompetent, clueless teen and, as far as I can remember, somewhat erroneous. I believe the statement uttered by Malmsteen at the time was something along the lines of "You've unleashed the fuckin' fury!" Could someone more knowledgeable please alleviate this? --70.117.198.88 23:43, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Avast! Another guitarist article in need of help. That paragraph is definitely a loser - needs to be rewritten and sourced, or just deleted. I will see today if I can find anything on that event. --Aguerriero (talk) 14:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

My apologies, but I just noticed that Anger22 has already fixed the section. I was commenting on the previous version from a couple days ago. Way to go! --Aguerriero (talk) 14:45, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Disputed content in the Ted Nugent article

An IP just tagged the "Ted" article as {totallydisputed} then left the dubious announcement on the talk page that the whole thing needed to be re-written??? I don't seem to see any real disputes of any magnitude on the talk page. The tagging appears to be more in line with "Anti-Ted" trolling than with any actual disputed content. The article could use more citations(but then again...they all could). Perhaps your project members should watch this one. 142.166.239.76 22:01, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Prince (musician)

I've nominated this article for a minor featured article review because requests for references and expansion of stub sections have gone unacted upon. Hopefully someone from this project can help. savidan^{(talk) (e@)} 22:59, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Quick note to project members re: copyvio content

I was going to edit and "wikify" the Tom Scholz article. The article read a little too slick so after a bit of web snooping...I discovered that the bulk of the article was a "cut 'n paste" job from an external website. Perhaps as project members are browsing through the guitarists articles(especially the more obscure ones) they could do a quick web check just to be double sure that the article isn't a hack job. I didn't delete the "procured" text yet I just tagged it. I will track down an Admin to pass judgement on it. Cheers and take care! Anger22 01:30, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Guitar Player magazine

This article could do with... well, anything, really. The magazine's been around a while (nearly 40 years) and has quite a substantial circulation. It deserves a decent article. MightyMoose22 ^{>Abort, Retry, Fail?_} 18:16, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

It's hard to find sources for information about this magazine that aren't this magazine... :) --Aguerriero (talk) 14:11, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

That's why I haven't done it myself. :) MightyMoose22 ^{>Abort, Retry, Fail?_} 14:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Quick hi and question

Hi I have decided to join the project. And I would like to add some guitarists from Indonesia, my home country, how about that? Cheers, Imoeng 11:08, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Sounds great, and thanks for joining! So far we have mostly American and European guitarists, so it will be welcome to diversify! --Aguerriero (talk) 14:09, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

..and Canadian guitarists too!!!! Don't forget us Canucks now !!! :D Anger22 17:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Erg, how American of me. Sorry. I even grew up in Michigan - you'd think I'd know better! :) --Aguerriero (talk) 18:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Progress and Questions

• So now I have started three articles, Mohammad Ridwan Hafiedz and Abdee Negara, also expanded Mark Tremonti's article. However I still need a photo, with Wikipedia's strict policy, this will take some time.
• Question
  • Considering the article's name is pretty long, how to make a hotlink or other names to access the article?
  • How to put these two articles to the "List of Guitarist By Nationality"?

Cheers, Imoeng 07:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Which article name is too long? I don't see a problem with them. The key is to use the most common name for the guitarist, so that people looking for the article can find it. If there are alternate names, you can create a redirect. Do this by creating a new article with the name of the redirect. Then in the article, type #REDIRECT [[Article name]] where "Article name" is the name of the article you want to redirect to.

You want to place your guitarist articles in a proper category according to their nationality. To do this, you add a line to the bottom of the article like this: [[Category:Indonesian guitarists|Hafiedz, Mohammad Ridwan]]. This makes sure the guitarist is listed by last name. Since this particular category doesn't exist right now, I am going to create it. --Aguerriero (talk) 18:05, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Adding to the mandate

Have had a brief discussion with Aguerriero about expanding the project scope to include more than just "guitarist" articles. We discussed the merit of including other "guitar related articles" (IE: manufacturers, models, effects etc). My own pet-peeve on these other articles was that most of them contained "notable user" lists which were, for the most part, POV favourite lists. I felt if the project included these other guitar related articles eventually better formats and guidelines could be established for them to help keep the fan-cruft out. Just wondering how other project members feel about possible project expansion. Anger22 12:45, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I like the idea. There are a few manufacturers I'm looking to work on and it would be good to have some standards to go by when editing these articles. Once its figured out what the project will cover I'm sure there will be other things I could work on as well. I can always help cutting down the fan lists.  HeartofGold  ^(Searching) 16:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

As I discussed with Anger22, it sounds good to me. There are already tons of gear-related articles out there, and many of them really need standards, stability, and guidance. We will need to work with Imoeng as well, who I believe has been working on an Ibanez project. --Aguerriero (talk) 16:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Does this include amps? When adding this section to The Who's page, and similarly the section on the Hiwatt page, I was surprised to see that Dallas Arbiter don't have an article. Or did you mean more strictly focussing on guitars and such? Either way, I say it's a good idea. MightyMoose22 ^{>Abort, Retry, Fail?_} 18:10, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it'd be great to include equipment. I'll add Vox (musical equipment)--Hector 18:52, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I meant to list amps in my original post. I think they fall right in with the other hardware articles. Also, kudos to Rohirok for cleaning up the Telecaster player list. It was ballooning out of control. Just about anyone who had played one, even if it was just once, had their name in there. He's done a good job paring it down. Anger22 19:26, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Why dont we establish my project, WikiProject Guitar Specifications (Click here and scroll down)?? Well, this is just a suggestion.. I've contacted Aguerriero about this, still waiting for the reply :) -- Imoeng 10:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Whoops, I didn't see your reply up here! I will look at your project this week - I'm betting we can "merge" it into WikiProject Guitarists and have a great start for equipment-based articles. Thanks for your hard work! --Aguerriero (talk) 21:58, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Bassists

Are bassists included in this project? --Hector 18:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I would say so. A bass guitar is a guitar. :) --Aguerriero (talk) 18:54, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

This makes me happy. :) MightyMoose22 ^{>Abort, Retry, Fail?_} 20:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Need help

An anon has started an edit war on the Joe Satriani article over the topic of notable students. The article did seem to POV that Steve Vai was his "Most notable" student(over all his other notable students). The confusion came from the article not clarifying the Vai was taught early on in New York and then all the other students came along after Satriani moved to California. I've tried to separate(twice) the 2 teaching stints within the article so that no student gets labeled as "most" but the anon doesn't seem to be reading it correctly and still seems to think that it's labeling Vai as "better". Can someone from the project review the recent edit history and see if it needs clarified any better. I placed my own edit thoughts on the article talk page. Thanks! Anger22 16:38, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

The way it is written now is a lot better. Sometimes I find it helps to just start over and try to reword the whole thing, when caught up in an edit war over one phrase. I have even seen edit wars over one word. :) Maybe something like this:

"Satriani taught guitar in two primary locales: Long Island, New York (1974-1978) and Berkeley, California (1978+). On Long Island, his most notable student was Steve Vai; in Berkeley, more notable students included: Kirk Hammett (Metallica), David Bryson (Counting Crows), Kevin Cadogan (Third Eye Blind), Larry LaLonde (Primus)), Alex Skolnick (Testament), Phil Kettner (Laaz Rockit) and Charlie Hunter."

This also brings the question - is there a year when he definitively stopped teaching? I didn't read the whole article, but it should be right in that section if known. --Aguerriero (talk) 17:27, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Question for Guitar Project members

I was just wondering...there is an article called List of guitarists and then there is an article called guitarist...which is merely just a list of guitar players. The only difference is that the guitarist article divides by genre, and the "list" article is alphabetical. Perhaps is there some way that these 2 articles can be combined? Or have more content in the guitarist article other than: A guitarist is a musician who plays the guitar. Both articles are magnets for every non-notable nobody who happens to browse through Wikipedia and just happens to play guitar. The rules about not listing without having an associated Wikipedia article...but we all know how well those rules work around here. Just thought this might be a suitable task some day...good luck with the project. Fair Deal

I've noticed that before. Alphabetical Wiki-lists are easier to maintain than genre lists since some of those listed may easily fall into more than one genre. It's a tedious task to make sure the content from one makes it over to the other if you have intentions of AfD'ing it. Not a task I have time for. Anyone else can take a stab at it. Anger22 02:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

A milestone reached

We have 20 members, woo hoo! A lot of WikiProjects never get off the ground, or they never get more than a handful of members. This tells me that we have a good, solid mission, and our participants have been active in getting our project notices out there. I look forward to working on our recent agreement to expand. Maybe we should make a temporary subpage to house our work on guitar equipment standards? --Aguerriero (talk) 21:56, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Indeed I agree. So should we make a subpage on this project main page or what? Btw, I'm proud to be here!! :) Imoeng 09:24, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

So, I've made this article, about Ibanez JEM series just for you to look at. It may not perfect, may not the best, but I've done my best. So, when are we going to expand this? :) sorry but I'm just very excited! Imoeng 12:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I have not had much free time lately to work on it - my real job, the one that actually pays me, has been awfully demanding lately. :) I think if anyone wants to take the initiative, they could create a subpage at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guitarists/Equipment or something similar, and make basically an "equipment" version of the whole Guidelines section that is on the mail project page. So, we need to determine what will be in the infobox (the one for Ibanez JEM actually looks awesome), what will be covered in the article, what is the standard for being considered notable, etc.

I think we need to establish notability in each equipment article, and provide citations. That way we can head off any deletion campaigns that might float our way. --Aguerriero (talk) 14:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, that infobox I used was taken from a fender strat article, and gibson les paul. So, the infobox issue has been sorted out, now we just have to make a template for the talk page. Or maybe you want to make it as a WikiProject Guitarist template? Yeah, then comes the real question here: Are we really going to combine these two projects? If yes, then we dont have to make another templates for userpage and talkpage of the article. Imoeng 01:32, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Invitation

I just wanted to let you know that the Biography WikiProject has been reorganized and we wanted to see if you guys were interested in merging with us? We've reorganized it so that it's more like the Military history project with task forces for the specialized areas. One of the task forces we could create could be Musicians-- by merging with us and becoming a task force, you wouldn't lose anything! You'd keep your same page here, it would just be redirected to Musicians task force (which we'd create) and you would continue as before, except that instead you'd also gain the benefits of being part of a larger project. We would give you a parameter to our Project banner (musicians-task-force=yes) and a note would appear that says the article is a part of that task force (see example on military history article), plus having peer reviews and collaborations, and being able to grade articles by class and importance so that the articles can be part of the WP:1.0 project and much more... Let me know what you think! If you are interested, you need to add your project to the task force vote we're currently having plange 16:05, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, guitarists are already being pulled into their project. See Laurindo Almeida and Alberto Ponce for two that I've noticed recently. Perhaps somthing could be worked out in relation to the fact that biographies of guitarists are biographies, but this should probably be discussed before any premature inclusion takes place. --Amazzing5 19:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

WP Biography covers all biographies and we would like to work closely with any current project that focuses in more detail on any particular discipline. Since no one nominated a specific work group for Musicians, it was folded into the Arts and Entertainment work group. Since WP Biography is so large we really depend on specific projects like yours. We would love it if someone from here was our liaison and let the A&E work group know when you have any articles up for FAC or FAR, etc or have a current collaboration going, so we can all support each other. Thanks! plange 19:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I think this mostly sounds like a good idea. I don't know that I have enough time to be a liaison, but I am interested in being involved. --Amazzing5 21:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

It should also be noted that this project does not encompass musicians in general, only guitarists. We also support articles on guitar equipment, so those would probably fall outside the mandate for the biography project. Since we are still developing this project and defining ourselves, I'm not sure it's a great idea to integrate into another project right now. --Aguerriero (talk) 21:15, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

We're not asking you guys to integrate at all (I know that was the original proposition) -- just work side by side :-) We're here to help you, in other words, when you have general biography questions, or if you need support on an FAC or peer review. We have lots of resources that you can use (peer review, nomination for selected article on Portal:Biography, article assessment, etc) plange 21:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm confused now. Are you still proposing that we redirect to the Musicians Task Force? I don't think that's appropriate because we don't emcompass all musicians (nor do we want to - the old WikiProject Musicians failed for a number of reasons), and because we are working on developing task forces of our own and I'm afraid the waters could be muddied a bit too much. Ultimately I am in favor of whatever produces the best articles about guitarists - and for now, I'm not sure we need the additional process until we're mature. Make sense? Of course, that's just my opinion; if there is a consensus among the participants here to merge, then merge we shall. :) --Aguerriero (talk) 21:26, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

As a note about this being only for guitarists and guitar related things: That may be the case, but many things (such as the guitarist infobox) could be easily adapted for another workgroup for musicians in general.--Amazzing5 21:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, a while back someone started a WikiProject Musicians. It quickly failed because there were all kinds of arguments about how the project related to WikiProject Composers.. there was too much crossover. It was also disorganized, but that's beside the point. That's what gave me the idea to start this project, because it has a more narrow focus. --Aguerriero (talk) 21:29, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

New Project

A new page regarding the Equipment Project has been made, please check it out on Wikipedia:WikiProject_Guitarists/Equipment. Cheers -- Imoeng 11:34, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! This will give us a page to hammer out our details. You asked above if we are really going to combine the projects - I think we are. No one has spoken out against it, so let's be bold. I propose that we work out the details on the new project page you created, and then we are finished, we can combine it with the main page. Make sense? So for now, let's try to make the Equipment project page a mirror of the mail project page, with all the same types of information. --Aguerriero (talk) 15:08, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

A nice add-on to the main project! Anger22 16:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, but no one has given a suggestion. Come on people, lets make this thing happens! Cheers, Imoeng 06:54, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Proceed with caution

I'd like to remind everyone reading this that quality is better than quantity. Too many low-grade articles, the kind that mostly exist just for the sake of existing, could draw suspicion to the whole project, and well-meaning stubs could get deleted alongside the cruft due to an assumption of bad faith. Thank you. MightyMoose22 ^{>Abort, Retry, Fail?_} 04:05, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, good point. We should establish a guideline for what equipment is notable, as well as consider what equipment has enough information available to make an article. --Aguerriero (talk) 13:42, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Task forces in work

Starting today or tomorrow, I am going to reorganize the project a bit to include task forces for certain things. Currently, we just have plans for a Guitar Equipment task force. If anyone has ideas for other ones (they could be certain subject matter, or like an Infobox Consistency task force or something), please reply here. --Aguerriero (talk) 21:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

infobox suggestion

Hi, if your infobox has a to-do list then putting article suggestions in it will lead to the article being listed on special pages: Wanted articles. If your template is on enough talk pages it will push the topic well up the list. Garrie

Some changes

Also known as, I was a busy bee. You will notice the new navigation menu on the top right of the project page. While I was at it, I made some reorganization efforts per our discussions of adding a task force. Please note that everything is still in work, so please discuss on the relevant talk pages of each element before making changes.

Please review the navigation template, and these new things accessible from the menu:

• The members subpage that is transcluded to the main project page.
• The article requests subpage.
• As part of the project banner (the thing you place on the talk page of articles) you can now tag articles as needing immediate attention, which places them in a special category accessible from the navigation menu.
• The project banner subpage. The banner is basically the same, but you can now grade articles on the assessment scale (this part still in work), add the "needs immediate attention" flag, and also tag it to be part of either of our two task forces (this is also not working yet).
• The Departments section that links to the assessment department.. more info here on grading articles (in work).
• The two infoboxes (guitarist and equipment) have their own subpages and are transcluded to the main page.
• Two task forces now exist.. one for equipment and one future one for infoboxes.

I spent a lot of time on this and more work is obviously needed. If there are any members who are very knowledgable in either templates (including conditional content and transclusion) or the assessment project, I would appreciate help. Please leave me a message on my talk page if you are interested. --Aguerriero (talk) 00:26, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

List of Telecaster players

I started this article a long time ago to hold the "overflow" of players previously listed in the Telecaster article. It languished for a long time as an indiscriminate collection of unreferenced information until recently, when, with the welcome input and enouragement of Anger22, I finally set about deleting the dubious entries and providing proper references for the rest. I think it's in decent shape now, as it now explicates criteria for inclusion other than that the musician merely played a Tele at some time, and all of the listings are backed up with references.

There is a problem, however. Despite the intro paragraph explaining that the list is only of artists who are notable for having played the Telecaster, and despite strongly worded notes in the edit box explaining the criteria and the need for references, daily additions are made (usually by anonymous editors) of musicians who do not meet the criteria and/or without a reference. Sometimes I've found a reference confirming that the artist belongs on the list, and have added it myself. More often, I've had to delete the entry entirely, and not for the first time. Casual editors seem to take the list as a challenge to find out who's "missing" and list them, or as an opportunity to promote their favorite musician (or themselves!) without regard for notability or verification.

Unfortunately, it is clear that the article will need daily attention to prevent it from again becoming a mess of unverified and dubious entries and, with classes starting, I won't be able to continue giving it such attention. Anger22 has helped keep things trimmed, but he is away right now, and also may not be able to give the article the daily attention it needs when he comes back. I am asking for more eyes to watch the article. Perhaps with the task of maintaining the quality of the article divided between several people, it will be a lot more manageable. Is there anyone here who would do me the favor of putting this article on their watchlist?

Also, the article does not have a project assessment yet. The input of other project members is needed. Thank you! Rohirok 13:26, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I have added it to my watchlist and will help keep an eye on it. --Aguerriero (talk) 21:39, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Just checking in from Auckland NZ....It may be sporadic...but I will still be keeping an eye on that article as best as I can. Rohirok has made a valuable contribution to that page...I'd hate to see someone step in and ruin it. G'day...eh! Anger22 10:13, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I've made a request for peer review of this article in preparation for nomination as a Featured list. Input from project members would be most welcome. Rohirok 02:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

An article re-born

Several weeks ago while tagging guitarist pages I stumbled upon...and became suspicious of...the article on Boston's Tom Scholz. It read just a little TOO neatly. My suspicions were valid. A quick web search revealed that, basically, the whole article was copyvio. I tagged and reported it and then...well...kinda forgot about it. The original page got turfed leaving a bunch of red links throughout several music/guitar related articles. I quickly(and poorly) threw together a new article which is very brief and needs expansion. If any members have time perhaps they could flesh it out a little. Specifically the Boston bits and, just as important, the section about Scholz Research & Development. Cheers! Anger22 18:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

a quick hello and a general question

hi all. i joined this project specifically to learn about wikipedia and to contribute where i can. i'm an amateur guitar player, and have been a fan of guitars and guitar players for as long as i can remember. so i figured this is the best place to earn my chops so to speak.

name here is John, and i look forward to meeting many if not all of you during my tenure here.

i have a general question. so i'd like to add to the page about Danny Gatton. i attended a tribute show last weekend here in my hometown (and Danny's too) of Washington, DC. in the program that was handed out at the show, i learned that Danny played with Jack Casady (of Jefferson Airplane and Hot Tuna fame) as a youngster here in DC.

i've found no corroborating references to that fact out on the web. how do i deal with that? i don't want to come off as a complete noob/boob in putting stuff out there. i'm working my way through the wikipedia FAQs/HOWTOs now, but just thought i'd check in here first.

ok, cool. look forward to hearing from y'all. good times. johncozzy 23:16, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi John. I think the best thing to do at this point is to put the information on Mr. Gatton's talk page and ask the other editors for help in finding a reliable source for it. I do advise you to be patient, however, as it may take a while.

Also, in future, please sign your talk page comments by typing ~~~~, this not only tells the rest of us who wrote what and when, but also provides a link to your user space/talk page for ease of navigation. Thanks. MightyMoose22 ^{>Abort, Retry, Fail?_} 04:12, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

thanks, MightyMoose johncozzy 23:16, 24 August 2006 (UTC)