Wikipedia talk:WikiProject India/Wiki Loves Monuments

Unique ID

Hello,

How do we define this unique ID? I could not find any information on the many WLM pages. Yann (talk) 12:04, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

For India the uniqueness of the identifier consists of three parts. First of all, we use the ISO code for the state. This is defined in each header template. Secondly, where applicable the circle is defined. Thirdly, we use the identifier given by the ASI. The reason why we can't simply only use the identifier given by the ASI, is that they start counting at 1 for every state/circle... we're still looking on how we can represent this nicely in the template, but that is something we don't have to worry about here right now, it is a problem also experienced in federal countries like Germany and will require a more general solution probably. effeietsanders 22:53, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm still somewhat confused! :-o -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 17:52, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

No problem, let me try again :) There are perhaps two issues seperately here:

1. We don't want to define monuments - that would be original research. We want to take the lists from an authoritative source - in this case the ASI.

2. To be able to do all kind of cool tricks with the data, we need to have all monuments in a database. To be able to keep them apart, we need to be able to uniquely identify them. Unfortunately, the ASI has many lists that all start counting from 1. That means that if we just take over the lists, we're unable to identify a monument uniquely, because there will be more than 20 monuments with the number "1". So we can do two things: either we change the number, or we add an extra field which, combined, gives a unique identifier.

If we change the number (for example, make up a prefix number for each list), we would get very close to original research - and it would become much harder to later on communicate back to ASI lists and check for changes. So that is not a preferred solution. So that is why we tried to add a second piece of information to each monument: the state it is in. Of course this is the same for the whole list/table, that is why we put that information (through their ISO code in the parameter "state_iso=") in the header template and not in the row template. If the state is further subdivided into circles, we also added the circle name in the same way ("circle=").

Combined, these three pieces of information identify every monument uniquely for India. I'm not sure what that does look like *inside* the database, but either the three pieces of information are combined into one 'identifier' or they are three seperate fields, and together give the identifier. I hope that explains better, Karthik? effeietsanders 18:37, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

WLM unique ID

Hi,

How do we create this unique ID? I could not find any information on the many WLM pages. Thanks a lot! Yann (talk) 12:06, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Yann,

It is important that within a certain defined environment, every monument can be defined uniquely. For example, within a country. Usually the authorities give such an ID to every monument. In some countries this is unfortunately not the case - and the numbers are given on a more local level. Then a unique ID can be 'created' by combining information. If I take India as an example, the combination of the state (, sometimes the circle) and the ID within that circle/state will give a unique identifier. This is mostly important when the information is imported into the international database. However, we're trying to avoid to do 'original research' and make up a number ourselves. Hope that clarifies - otherwise please leave another (more specific?) question.effeietsanders 13:49, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

I see that you created lists for nearly all states, including ID numbers. For Madhya Pradesh, the monuments of Orchha have disappeared. For Gwalior Fort (#146 in MP West), it is a very big place with several monuments within. What do we do in this case? I think this will also be the case for other big monuments (Taj Mahal, Delhi Red Fort, Agra Fort, etc.). Thanks for your help, Yann (talk) 05:59, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi Yann,

I'm not sure what you mean with 'disappeared' in Orchha. I assume you're referring tothese? They are indeed not on the ASI list - which means that officially they are apparently not recognized. I'm sure they're great buildings, but they are not covered by the ASI recognition as are probably many many other buildings that should be (I was amazed by how short this list was). To do Indian heritage justice, you probably need a second source besides ASI (and seperate lists) like INTACH to cover more structures. But so far it doesn't seem one has been found that is available to enough extent.

Yes, Orchha temples and palaces are important and famous monuments, so I don't understand that there are not in the list. Shouldn't we just add them? How do we create the ID number in that case? Yann (talk) 11:49, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

The question about 'very big monuments' (which could also be considered a collection of monuments) is common in most countries. We can't simply split them up of course, but nobody forbids people to take many pictures of them, and simply put them in a category. In those cases, I would try to include an overview picture, and add a link to the relevant commons category in the description.effeietsanders 07:10, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

So we assign the same ID for all monuments inside the Red Fort or the Agra Fort, is that right? I am not sure what this ID is used for, so I can't give an opinon. But we need much more detailed identification for Commons. of course. Yann (talk) 11:49, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, if the ASI considered it as one single monument, for the purpose of this identifier we would consider it as such, too. This is something that's different in many countries unfortunately. Of course you're right that you should motivate people to photograph many different buildings/details within the identified monuments. Since the monuments in India are generally very large, it might make sense to include the commons category in the table?effeietsanders 11:53, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Commons lists?

Hello,

What should we do about commons:Commons:Lists of Asian Monuments/India? Should we just copy the list there? Yann (talk) 07:02, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Proposal: Moving lists and including all state protected monuments

Hi,

Currently most lists are a bit chaotically set up as subpages of this one. I would like to suggest to set up two sets of pages, clearly seperating the two types of monuments available. Firstly, a set of lists Indian Monuments of National Importance in XYZ for the set of monuments which are all currently on Wikipedia, and listed through this ASI overview page. Secondly, I would suggest a set of lists State protected monuments in XYZ for the set of state-protected monuments linked from this ASI overview page. The advantage would be that the names are more intuitive, the tree would become nicer. Also it would fall under regular editing policies in Wikipedia. There are some things to keep in mind though. It would be a lot of renaming, and the state-protected lists still have to be added. In some names the district or circle will have to be clarified besides the state (i.e. Patna circle in Uttar Pradesh sounds confusing, although it is called like that for historical reasons). effeietsanders 12:30, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

After checking with Karthik, I'll move forward on this. effeietsanders 17:55, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Things sounded great, hence I gave green signal :) -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 18:19, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

How to add/ edit monument ID?

I just uploaded a photo as a part of Wiki Loves Monuments, but I missed the part about the monument ID. How do I add it in now? Also, if I put in the wrong monument ID, how do I correct it? Nanditasr (talk) 17:44, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi, add the following: {{ASI Monument|xyz}}; xyz should be replaced with the monument Identifier. Thanks! -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 18:18, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Nanditasr (talk) 05:33, 14 September 2012 (UTC)Thanks, Karthik. --NanditasrNanditasr (talk) 05:33, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Question on Commons

Somebody may want to answer this. Thanks.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:09, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Answered via mail. Thanks -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 05:52, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Delhi state-protected

Hey,

User:Code martial came up with this link which indeed identifies several state-protected monuments. Probably someone could check the validity and create the Delhi state protected page? effeietsanders 11:57, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Using HistOSM to locate monuments

There is an amazing open dataset of historical places that can be explored using HistOSM an interactive map with crowdsourced data from the OpenStreetMap Project. Wonder if this can be of use to locate monumnets and match to the official list -- ^{PlaneMad|YakYak} 08:35, 1 September 2017 (UTC)