Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Ireland task force

Images

Hi folks. I've started taking a few snaps at Shamrock Rovers games partly with the intention of getting the player profiles up to date here. There are also some snaps of opposition players so it may be of a little use for player profile pages. The gallery is http://www.flickr.com/photos/albertw/collections/72157600052308441/ . They are listed as "All rights reserved" on flickr but I'd be happy to upload any that are of use here as public domain. --Albert.white 23:35, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Article improvement drive

Hi - I'm trying to recruit for the improvement of the article Northern Ireland national football team. Hopefully, with enough interest, we can improve the standard of the article and include it for a month as the selected article for the Northern Ireland Portal. Please take a look at the nominations.

Also, I'm going to add this Wikiproject as a related project to the Northern Ireland WikiProject in the hopes that it may attract members and help to both projects. --Mal 19:14, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Project talk page template

It might be an idea to make Irish football a parameter of the WikiProject football template, like the non-league project has - seems excessive to have separate tags for two overlapping football projects. Oldelpaso 21:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed that and thought about it. It is a good idea. However, I wasn't sure how exactly to create such a template. Maybe it's easier than I thought. Is there any chance you could help? Thanks. Danny Invincible^Talk|Edits 00:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to Tompw, putting |Irish=Yes in the {{Football}} template will now do the trick i.e. {{Football|Irish=Yes|class=Stub}} etc. Oldelpaso 09:09, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Derry City F.C.

If anyone is interested; I have nominated the article for featured article status. Danny Invincible^Talk|Edits 16:28, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Good luck with it. It's a great article --Albert.white 18:47, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations! Belacqua Shuah 10:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Shamrock Rovers F.C.

The Shamrock Rovers page recently failed to meet the good article criteria. One of the reasons for failure was that the article is not well written. Copy editing is not one of my skills and I'd be grateful if someone could offer some assistance with copy editing the article. Thanks. --Albert.white 18:47, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I've gone through the article a bit, fixing some things up here and there. You'd probably need sources for claims such as the club being one of Ireland's 'most prestigious'. There are many other claims in there, which would require inline citations if the article is to achieve a raised status. It's not that I don't believe the claims but there are policies in place to which the article needs to adhere. Just a few other things for now:

• I checked the official club website and it seems pretty sure that the club was founded in 1901. It doesn't mention any ambiguity in the history section. Do you know of any sources that deal with the confusion over the year of founding?
• Were Rovers the first Irish club to play in European competition, or the first to play in the European Cup?
• I'm assuming that by 'green and white stripes', the article means vertical stripes were orignally worn, as opposed to the current scheme of horizontal hoops, so I have made that a little clearer.
• You could also include images of old crests if you have any available.
• Why did the club have to play a home game in Cork?

If you have a brief look through the Derry City F.C. peer-review, the ideas expressed by the users who contributed, although specific to that article, might help guide you to some useful pages on policies, standards and styles, et cetera. Similarly, if you have a look at the format of the (featured status) articles on Arsenal F.C. or IFK Göteborg, it should prove a lot of worth. Danny Invincible^Talk|Edits 23:08, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Reserve and Youth Squad Articles?

Should we have articles on the reserve and youth academies of clubs? Ryannus 18:12, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't think they'd survive. See, for example: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/A.F.C Bournemouth Reserve & Youth Team. Danny Invincible^Talk|Edits 18:51, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

There aren't reserve teams in Ireland.

Dundalk FC

Hi there,

I've recently been adding to and attempting to improve the Dundalk FC wikiPage, I'd be happy to take on the Oriel mantle.

-Belacqua Shuah

Good stuff. Sure, stick your name down in the list on the project's main page. The article definitely has potential. It could do with a few more references though. If you need more help, don't hesitate to ask. Danny Invincible^Talk|Edits 15:25, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I've done a bit of work on the lead and history section. Hopefully, it's OK. It might be worth including a line about Dundalk's ommission from the 2007 FAI Premier Division and the surrounding controversy. Danny Invincible^Talk|Edits 20:01, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Great work on tidying up the article and adding to the lead, history and ground sections, the page is really beginning to take shape; I'll try source most of the references over the next couple of days. Cheers. - BS

Done good bit of work on the page myself, done nearly all the players articles(done my best) and il be doing my best to keep the page upto date and a good article. Thanks--Dunny

Task forces

We've recently added some task forces to Wikiproject:Football. It may be worth thinking about making this WP a task force instead, let me know if you would like any help with this... Paulbrock 12:25, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Home Farm

I have being working on the Home Farm F.C. article and it more or less finished now. However I have been unable to find out the current status of it’s senior team. Do they still have a team in the Leinster Senior League ? It is not listed in the wiki article or on the official website. Is it just a schoolboy club now ? Can anybody here help or contribute ? Djln--Djln 22:19, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Ireland national football team: proposed article mergers

I have proposed the following mergers:

• Ireland national football team (IFA) → Northern Ireland national football team
• Ireland national football team (FAI) → Republic of Ireland national football team

Proposal Talk:Ireland national football team IFA#Proposed_mergers with lead-up discussion earlier on that Talk: page. jnestorius^(talk) 23:12, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Proposed template update

I have logged a proposed change to {{football}} that if implemented would move this project's notice into the same area used for taskforces and use Image:Ireland smaller.svg as an icon. This will get around the issue on the template when both Irish=yes and Non-League=yes, currently when both are displayed - the template breaks. As this directly affects how this project is shown in the banner, your comments on whether this would be a good thing are welcome at Template talk:Football#Template update - non-casesensitive and rearrangement. Nanonic (talk) 13:11, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Concern

While attempting to create new articles concerning Irish Football, I noticed that alot of editors view most of Irish football as non-notable. I made the point that the notability of a club or footballer is relevant to the standard of the football in that country. Teams in the District leagues and Senior leagues are just as important to Irish Football as the countless non-league English teams who are in fact, "not fully professional".

I had a discussion with a member regarding this topic. (See here.) Ryannus (talk) 22:15, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:RM on Football in the Republic of Ireland

Vote is taking place on Talk:Football in the Republic of Ireland regarding a move from Football in the Republic of Ireland to Association football in the Republic of Ireland (following a failed attempted move to Soccer in the Republic of Ireland). Broad participation would be helpful. Regards, Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 22:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism alert

Users might want to take not on vandalism to the articles on Ballyclare Comrades F.C. and Carrick Rangers F.C.. I have tried to keep tabs on it, but i cant always catch it. Mos tof the vandalism seems centered on Jtaggart445 (talk · contribs), as well as several annons, other artices my be involed as well. Just a heads up. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 01:21, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Further notability issues

It appears the citation freaks and wiki-megalomaniacs are taking special aim at articles on Irish football, many of which have been tagged with citation notices for the most trivial and inconsequential details. Believe it or not, one admin has appended dozens if not hundreds of these notices and repeatedly tagged the Leinster & Munster Senior Cup articles as non-notable (!!!) as part of a personal vendetta against my humble self. Rather than go toe to toe with an admin, I've chosen to withdraw from the arena, but I would ask all project members to keep an eye out for such shenanigans and provide citations where necessary and opposition where possible. Thanks. DublinDilettante (talk) 00:22, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. Anyone who wants to check what actually happened can read the discussion at User talk:DublinDilettante#Referencing.

It's quite simple, really: in the course of assessing over 11,000 articles as part of Wikiproject Ireland's assessment drive, I took the time to add categories to uncategorised or undercategorised articles, and add cleanup tags as needed. There was and is no "taking special aim at articles on Irish football"; I have been working through all the articles under Category:Ireland, most recently by taking articles in Category:Dublin and its sub-categories (see the history of the working list for the hundreds of articles assessed, or this list of the similar worklists). The Dublin list included a lot of articles on footballers, and those which were unreferenced or inadequately referenced were tagged as {{unreferenced}}, {{refimprove}} or {{primarysources}} in exactly the same way as I did with articles on any other topic.

DublinDilettante's fury at this extends even to removing {{unreferenced}} tags on completely unreferenced articles, but the DublinDilettante flatters herself if she or he thinks that seeking references is part of some "vendetta": WP:V is a foundation-level core policy of wikipedia, and tagging articles which don't comply with it is a request for improvement to met standards which apply to football just as they apply to astronomy or military history or wildlife or any other subject.

As to the Munster Senior Cup, well ... if it is indeed notable, what's the problem in providing evidence of that? Like dozens of other articles which do not demonstrate the notability of the subject, I applied the {{notability}} tag, which says clearly: "the best way to address this concern is to reference published, third-party sources about the subject". The article was created nearly three years ago and still cites no sources, just an external link to the homepage of the Munster Football Association.

I don't see any chorus of support for DublinDilettante's complaints, and I trust that other members of this project are interested in improving articles rather than demanding exemptions to the principle of referencing. Good luck with your work! --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:16, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I read the discussion that you had and I would say that you are both incorrect in your arguments, yes WP:V should be adhered to as a core principle and it is entirely appropriate to tag articles and statements that require a source. However not every piece of information requires such a source, in fact if you refer to WP:V it states.

All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged should be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation.

This is not stating that all information should be referenced, but that any contentious information should be. That is the core policy, so for example you do not need to provide a reference for someones name etc. unless that name is one that is likely to be disputed.

Adding tags indescrimatly is not vandalism but neither is it helpful or policy. Paul  Bradbury 13:04, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

WP:RM on Association football in the ROI to Football (soccer) in the Republic of Ireland

A vote is taking place here regarding a 'Requested Move' from Association football in the Republic of Ireland to Football (soccer) in the Republic of Ireland. Reasons are listed that promote the motion. A broad participation would be welcome. Regards, Matt Lewis (talk) 15:01, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Football League of Ireland & FAI League of Ireland winners

Morning. I notice that the 2007 winners of the League (FAI LOI as it now is) were not included in the Football League of Ireland article. Was this an oversight or intentional? I was about to ammend it then thought I'd better ask. I can understand some reasoning for not including it, with the league now being ran differently. But there is now no single page listing the winners and records of the league. Basically, there has been a football league in Ireland in some shape or form since 1921 - The winners and records etc. should be in the one place with suitable footnotes where necessary to reflect the changes in the league. I'm not sure on how best to achieve this; the best option I can think of would be to create a new page for League of Ireland Winners and include all results in there, with suitable footnotes and links to the different league pages which outline the history etc. of the leagues. Thoughts? --Albert.white (talk) 23:35, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Question: IFA Premiership fully pro or not?

Hey all. We were wondering over at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jonathan Flynn if the IFA Premiership was a fully professional league or not. I've been searching around on google and wikipedia but can't seem to come up with an answer, and it occurred to me that you wonderful experts of Irish football might be able to tell me. If anyone knows one way or the other, or would like to weigh in on the Flynn debate, it would be much appreciated. Thanks! Vickser (talk) 08:18, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by "fully professional": it is a professional league, but almost all players are semi-professional rather than full-time. Mooretwin (talk) 09:12, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I see he lost his case. --Candlewicke (Talk) 03:05, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Due to wikipedia admins not following the rules or spirit of the project. Surprise, Surprise. Some people would delete all of the eircom league and GAA if they got bored enough. --Albert.white (talk) 22:29, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Template:FAI League

This template has been nicely updated to show the 2009 league structure, but this is a general template as currently named. The template as currently titled doesn't reflect a FAI League of Ireland 2009 season template. As such, it is still included in prior seasons but doesn't show the data for those seasons. If this template is going to be used to show the 2009 structure then it should be retitled to say, for example, Template:FAI League 2009, so that when the 2010 season rolls around it won't be outdated and need replaced as it currently does on the 2008 and 2007 articles. JohnnyPolo24 (talk) 14:09, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

IFA team/Northern Ireland - flagicon

IS there guidance on which flag icon to use for the Ireland (IFA) team post-1921 and pre-1950, and 1950-1954? I understand is used, but (a) the team purported to represent all of Ireland up until 1950, and (b) the NI flag wasn't adopted until 1954? An alternative is , but I doubt this flag was used by the IFA: I imagine the Union Flag was used. Mooretwin (talk) 20:24, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

The IFA wasnt the "Northern Ireland" team prior to the creation of the FAI - it was the All Ireland team. It remained the All Ireland team even after creation of the FAI and only later became the de facto Northern Ireland team. The use of the Ulster Banner for an All Ireland team is incorrect.--Vintagekits (talk) 20:54, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Did someone say that the IFA was the "Northern Ireland" team prior to the creation of the FAI? Could you post a link. Strange claim. Mooretwin (talk) 14:36, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

This should aid you.--Vintagekits (talk) 08:52, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

That article mentions nothing about which flag icon to use for Ireland (IFA) post-1921, and therefore is of no assistance at all. Mooretwin (talk) 14:37, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

It says that the IFA played on an All Ireland basis - so where are you getting it from that they used that sectarian rag?

I'm not getting it from anywhere that the IFA used the NI flag prior to 1950. That's why I said: "The team purported to represent all of Ireland up until 1950" and "The NI flag wasn't adopted until 1954". Have you actually read anything that I have written? And who said that the IFA was the "Northern IReland" team prior to the creation of the FAI. Still waiting for a link. Mooretwin (talk) 20:18, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Well you are implying it be putting it (Ulster Banner) on articles for players from that era.--Vintagekits (talk) 09:30, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

I was implying no such thing. I was merely going by what I thought was the established usage for the post-1921 IFA team. The Wales flag, for example, which was only established formally in the 1950s, is used for Wales from the 1870s, so the fact that the NI flag didn't exist in 1921 is no reason why it might not be used in Wikipedia. I also suspect that neither the St Andrew's nor the St George's flags were used by the Scottish and English FAs during this period, and I suspect neither did the Irish FA use the St Patrick's flag. Nonetheless, these flags are used on Wikipedia. Mooretwin (talk) 14:56, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Has anyone else got anything sensible or constructive to contribute to this? Can anyone advise on the correct flag icon for the IFA team prior to 1950, and indeed after 1950 and before the introduction of the NI flag?Mooretwin (talk) 20:18, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Why not simply create a new icon using the Irish FA Crest instead? 94.0.157.179 (talk) 15:30, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Because there is no evidence that such a flag was ever used by the IFA. Mooretwin (talk) 23:15, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Interestingly, I recently saw a photograph of the 1958 World Cup draw, with flags to represent each country. England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland were all represented by the Union Flag. So I wonder at what point they individually started using their own flags? Mooretwin (talk) 23:15, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Stephen_Roche article up for deletion

The article about UCD player Stephen Roche is currently up for deletion. I have improved the article as best I can. If you could help improve the article please feel free.--Vintagekits (talk) 15:03, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

GAN backlog reduction - Sports and recreation

As you may know, we currently have 400 good article nominations, with a large number of them being in the sports and recreation section. As such, the waiting time for this is especially long, much longer than it should be. As a result of this, I am asking each sports-related WikiProject to review two or three of these nominations. If this is abided by, then the backlog should be cleared quite quickly. Some projects nominate a lot but don't review, or vice-versa, and following this should help to provide a balance and make the waiting time much smaller so that our articles can actually get reviewed! Wizardman 23:39, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Flag Icon for players

Hi guys, I'm just wondering can there be some sort of clarification with regard to the use of flag icons for Irish players? To some people it is confused with nationality, for example in the case of Shane Duffy on the Everton page. Shane Duffy may have been born in Derry and may have played for N.I. youth teams, but his nationality is Irish. I have changed the flag to reflect this. Am I wrong in doing so? Ryannus (talk) 16:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I think I have to retract this question. I've been subsequently enlightened as to the usage of flags for sporting persons' nationalities. Ryannus (talk) 11:57, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

When you say his nationality is Irish, what do you mean? Mooretwin (talk) 08:31, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Rather than British or 'Northern Irish'. It's no problem now however. I was mistaken when I changed the flag - I was unaware that the flags were solely representative of sporting nationality, rather than ethnicity or citizenship. Ryannus (talk) 15:47, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

So you meant citizenship of the Irish Republic? FWIW, he must also be a UK citizen, otherwise he couldn't have represented Northern Ireland: so he must be a dual national - not that it matters for the purpose of the article. Mooretwin (talk) 17:58, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Leinster Senior League

Hi all. There's a discussion going on at WT:FOOTY#Leinster Senior League which would benefit from your input, in particular a proposal for a new article about the Irish football league system. Bettia (talk) 08:32, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Nonsense Articles

Give the nonsense articles a rest lads. It took me a while to clean up the mess you all left before. Onetonycousins (talk) 18:53, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Leinster Senior Cup has been revivied

Great news, the Leinster Senior Cup is back next season, we'd want to update the page soon. Backbeatlistener (talk) 17:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Tom Coughlan

Yeah, I know he's among the most hated men in the LOI, but the page needs to be fixed. Most of the recent should be just deleted. Backbeatlistener (talk) 16:16, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Should there be rivalry pages between football leagues?

Should article pages such as Offaly and Waterford hurling rivalry exist? Since this Wikiproject is about Irish Football, I'd figure it the best place to ask this. Someone has nominated this article for deletion, saying that newspapers talking about the rivalry of different teams, doesn't make it notable enough for an article. Someone who knows something about the teams, I figure would be the best to comment on this. Dream Focus 12:32, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Sports Notability

There is discussion ongoing at Wikipedia_talk:BIO#RFC:_WP:Athlete_Professional_Clause_Needs_Improvement debating possible changes to the WP:ATHLETE notability guideline. As a result, some have suggested using WP:NSPORT as an eventual replacement for WP:ATHLETE. Editing has begun at WP:NSPORT, please participate to help refine the notability guideline for the sports covered by this wikiproject. —Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 03:31, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Is this project still alive?

Are there any wikipedians still actually involved in this? I've just done a quick run-through of the LSL club pages, should they even be on Wikipedia? Backbeatlistener (talk) 00:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Conflict between WP:NFOOTBALL and Wikipedia:Notability (sports)#Gaelic games?

Please see the conversation at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)#Conflict between WP:NFOOTBALL and Wikipedia:Notability (sports)#Gaelic games?. —J04n(talk page) 00:09, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Archie McLeod

The article Archie McLeod has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

A search for references found no published (gBooks) support for the content of this article. Fails WP:V and WP:N

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Jeepday (talk) 00:42, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Our Lady's Boys Club F.C.

I can't work on the above article because of conflicts (I contract to The Ireland Funds), but it was up for deletion (and rightly so as it stands). I just added a link in the discussion page to an article the IF has published about the club, and encourage someone to make a more robust page to avoid deletion (even if you don't have time to really flesh it out, even a little work would save it from delete-hammer time. --Thespian (talk) 20:03, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Joe Kendrick

Hi, does anybody here have any more info on Joe Kendrick, Sr.’s time with Shelbourne. He definitely played for Shels for part of 1926-27 season and during the 1929-30 season. He was released by Shels at end of the latter season. Did he, for example, play for Shels when they won the League of Ireland in 1925-26 or 1928-30 Djln--Djln (talk) 10:49, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Articles for Deletion

I have had a half dozen articles deleted of players because they do not play in a fully pro league. There seems to be some concensus now that players involved in the Europa League or Champs League group stages are will not be deleted, so probably should focus attention on creating articles on those players and so with that in mind I have requested that Ciaran Kilduff have his page undeleted. Any other player in the Shamrock Rovers squad for that Europa League jaunt should be safe from the notability police too. Also I think we have a chance for some of the players involved in the qualifying rounds of the european competitions over the past decade provided it involved two fully pro sides, for example I guess Bohs v Red Bull Salzburg. DavidDublin (talk) 17:03, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool

Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Oji

Death recently announced. RIP.

What's the policy for dead wikipedians who are (were????) also sportspeople? Thanks! Bokoharamwatch (talk) 23:47, 29 August 2021 (UTC)