Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel/Archive 7

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List of Israeli Ashkenazi Jews

I noticed that Wikipedia has articles on List of Israeli Ashkenazi Jews and a List of Israeli Mizrahi and Sephardi Jews.

The division of Jewish people into separate lists based on whether they are Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, or Sephardi feels outdated, racist and unnecessarily divisive. In Israel, many people come from mixed backgrounds and do not fit neatly into these categories. Highlighting someone's Ashkenazi or Mizrahi origin as though it is a defining characteristic seems reductive and potentially harmful.

For example, listing someone like Gilad Shalit in the list of Ashkenazi Jews does nothing to enhance our understanding of who he is. It's not relevant to the broader picture of his life in any way. Moreover, by creating and maintaining these separate lists, we risk reinforcing racial divisions that don't serve any meaningful purpose and may, in fact, perpetuate harmful stereotypes.

Instead of maintaining these distinctions, it would be more appropriate to merge the lists into a single "List of Israeli Jews", and if the article becomes too long, break it down based on another category. Whizkin (talk) 20:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

By the way, I also noticed that for the majority of people on these lists, there is no citation showing that the ethnic origin of the person is as claimed, which could be a violation of biographies of living persons and other policies . I strongly think we need to reconsider the existence of these lists or at the very least, ensure proper sourcing for any claims made about individuals' ethnic origins. Whizkin (talk) 20:16, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

I personally would delete them as pointless in the context of them containing (between them) over 70% of the population. It's like having a list of white British people. Number 57 23:43, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

I will happily support any request for deletion for these lists DGtal (talk) 06:21, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

@Number 57 / @DGtal Thank you for your reply. Could one of you assist me with starting a deletion procedure? Whizkin (talk) 19:27, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't see any encyclopaedic value in these lists but some people like having articles like List of Americans of English descent. @Whizkin, please see here how to initiate the deletion Wikipedia:Deletion process. Alaexis_¿question? 21:18, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, @Alaexis. I don't think that List of Americans of English descent is exactly equivalent. Ashkenazi and Sephardi are complex and blurry categories linked to family religious traditions going back hundreds of years, and do not always map to precise countries of origin. For example, there are both Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Jews from Georgia. It is not common for reliable sources to mention whether people born in Israel are Ashkenazi or Mizrahi/Sephardi, except for rabbis and other religious personas. Such sources would usually define non-observant Jews, as having ancestry from a specific country, for example, Polish origins. In fact, it can be considered racist or offensive to classify secular people as Ashkenazi or Mizrahi/Sephardi unless they self-identify as one. Whizkin (talk) 22:19, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Ok , that was difficult, but I think I've managed to start it correctly using the "Twinkle" tool ... Let me know if this looks right: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Israeli Ashkenazi Jews. @Number 57 @DGtal @Alaexis Whizkin (talk) 05:49, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

RfC at Talk:Herrenvolk democracy

There is currently a discussion concerning whether or not it is appropriate to display the flag of Israel on this article. Experienced editors are invited to join the discussion. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:34, 17 August 2024 (UTC)